I never feel guilt. I've always seen it as an inferiority complex and a victim-villain complex. I avoid it like the plague.

Instead, I recognize my mistake, I accept that I value one outcome more than another, and I analyze how to reach that outcome in the future without repeating the same mistake - or, I transcend the mistake by accepting that sacrifices are necessary to get what I want sometimes, and what would have been a mistake ceases to be a mistake.

Basically, it's in your head. If you want it to be there, then by all means, live in that mindset. Personally, it doesn't work for me, and I long ago cast it aside.

 

Depending on what the effects have been, and who it had affected.

I don't feel guilty for lying to my parents and skipping school to play video games.
But I'd feel like a dick if I lied to someone I cared about.

It just so happens that the list of people I care about is relatively small....

 

Simple question, complex answer... How I deal with it depends on if I actually am guilty of something I should feel guilty about. I don't think it is an "unnecessary" feeling that should be avoided. Rather, it is a starting point to analyse what one did wrong and how to avoid it the next time. It doesn't make the feeling of guilt go away, but it turns it into something constructive. Then at least you don't have to feel ashamed of feeling guilty.

And it probably helps to realise that not everything has to be perfect, including oneself. Good enough is fine most of the time.

 

I have high morals I don't like lying, I don't like hurting people or their feelings even by mistake and I don't like breaking the rules . I rarely do any of these and when I do i feel very guilty about it . The general idea that INTJs are mean and unconsidered annoys me. Most people think I'm mean and arrogant but I'm not ...

 

Most people think I'm mean and arrogant but I'm not ...

Really? I've always thought of you as a cuddly, fluffy teddy bear :happy: :crazy:

My mum is pretty much the only one who can make me feel guilty, but I have realised (only fairly recently) that she often uses it as a weapon and so I have been working on not letting her make me feel so guilty.

Ditto.

When I first read the thread I thought 'of course I feel guilty', but after thinking about it more, a lot of it is just self frustration rather than guilt.

I do, however, feel guilty when I say something that seems to hurt someone, and upon reflection, I could have worded it better to avoid that. I wouldn't feel guilty if I offended someone when I know I'm being objective or totally reasonable.

 

I just look at something and say, "That was a mistake. I should not have done that." Then, I endeavor not to do it again. All I am saying is that it does not seem to me that feeling bad about it is important. What matters is that you recognize what is important to you, namely, one outcome over another, and you make an effort to produce that outcome in the future. By identifying your own behavior as a mistake, you are already acknowledging that you do not value it as much as you value something else. So, that is really all that you need to do insofar as feeling one way or another about it. Beating yourself up emotionally over it is just self-abuse.

But, like I said, if that's what it takes for some people... I guess, whatever works. Some people need a kick in the ass I suppose.

 

I feel badly if I commit the same mistake over again. I'm not sure if it's guilt, but it's probably similar to what you feel. I'd characterize it more as frustration, personally. For example, at work the other day, I put my coffee in a precarious place near the phone cord and ended up knocking it over. No big deal, lesson learned. But then I put it in the exact same place and knocked it over again an hour later. The spill even covered the exact same six square inches. I don't start seriously thinking, "What the hell is wrong with me?" but it's not a good feeling.

I'm not really afraid of how I look during a learning process, as which life usually acts. Granted, I enjoy "getting" things right off. I was recently told at work, in so many words by different people, that I'm somewhat a perfectionist and don't actually make many mistakes. I suppose in my life I've sometimes disdained things I didn't get right off. I'm not sure if that's a subconscious fear of failure or if my innate sense of worth is just causing me to be insanely judgmental. More to the point, I learned a long time ago to stop caring how I look to my peers, unless that happens to be the entire point, for whatever reason.

I mainly feel guilty when I've hurt someone. If it's because I was careless, I feel irresponsible. If it's because of a genuinely uncontrollable variable, I don't feel as badly, but will usually apologize or take another appropriate action. If it's out of spite, I will virtually always feel badly, but will also examine why it came about in the first place. I believe these are fairly normal reactions. Above all you should remember that how you feel is rarely ever "wrong", but there is plenty of room for being less hard on yourself.

 

No guilt -- ever.

My decisions are considered and intentional and therefore I find no reason to feel guilt. Even on the rare occasion when I make a rash decision, I don't feel guilt. I can't change the decision and therefore there is no reason to feel guilt over the outcome. The best I can do -- all I can do -- is move forward and mitigate the consequences.

 

Seriously? Even if you have actually hurt someone you care about with your decisions? Isn't there even the slightest bit of bad feeling creeping up on you when you realise the outcome which you are responsible for? Is it really all rational analysis of consequences? I find that hard to believe... Confess! =)

 

My mum is pretty much the only one who can make me feel guilty, but I have realised (only fairly recently) that she often uses it as a weapon and so I have been working on not letting her make me feel so guilty.

 

MissJordan;1590179]Depending on what the effects have been, and who it had affected.

I don't feel guilty for lying to my parents and skipping school to play video games.
But I'd feel like a dick if I lied to someone I cared about.

So you don't care about your parents ?

Gotcha !!

 

Just because I'm related to them, doesn't mean I like them.

 

I'll admit there are times I feel guilt, but usually it's not self-induced. Very seldom do I find the feeling to be of any benefit to me, and in fact, generally find it a hinderance. My method of dealing with it is to basically rationally go through the situation, and then move on - if the feeling tries to pop up, I remind myself of why I should NOT feel guilty, and do my best to ignore it.

I also suffer from frustration with myself for mistakes that I make. It's not guilt per say, but a similar feeling I guess. Most of the time I just have to look at the situation that caused the frustration, and then figure out how to ensure it never happens again. Sometimes I can't always completely remove that nagging feeling, but again, I don't really let it get in my way. People around me would probably never realize that I was aggravated by my actions since I don't let it dictate how I'm acting now, other than to avoid doing the stupid again.

 

Meh.
I feel frustration at mistakes mostly.
I can feel guilty over certain kinds of mistakes, but those are rare and it tends to turn into (usually) energising rage.

What remains consistent is I never feel as much as others tell me I should feel. Guilt-mongering doesn't work - it just fills me with hate.

 

Guilt = Not being comfortable with who you are, or having the confidence in the decisions and choices you make. I can't relate to guilt at all to be honest. *poof*

 

I don't feel guilty ever, really. I'm sure if I was to disappoint of those on my very small People I Care About list, then I may feel some remorse, however I do quite a good job of not disappointing people.

 

If I feel guilty, I also usually feel angry that someone has such an emotional hook in me.

 

This ^

There have been times when my father will try and put me in a catch-22 where there is nothing left but to feel a little guilt....it's usually because I had little guilt about the initial decision not to help the old turd....

I think it's really probably compassion. I would help the old turd if I was able. He is my father.

 

The feeling of guilt is about the same as making a excuse to avoid responsibility, its unacceptable, and if i make a mistake i just learn from it and move on.

 

The more I read about INTJs the more I see a sociopaths in you, guys. It's pretty cool.

 

It seems to me unreal that INTJ's would feel so little guilt. Sure we'd rather burn at the stake than show weakness, admit defeat, but that the guilt isn't there doesn't seem to be true. The question I asked referred to a particular kind of guilt that only rationals appear to have: the guilt of making a stupid mistake. And by mistake I don't mean premeditated actions, like lying to parents, or bailing school. I mean true mistakes, like getting yourself in a situation that you cannot believe a clever person would ever get, and thus you get an immensely powerful hit on your pride and your self-esteem. And the hit gets even bigger when it is a mistake with terrible consequences that you can never make right. The very realization that even the smartest of us can, and most often do make such mistakes, is a self-defeating action, particularly for NTs, since we base our self-esteem on our strong will, our ingenuity and our autonomy. Now, if you are an NT (any type), and you happen to make such a mistake (and I know many of our kind who have), and you get such a hit that dissolves you to pieces, then what do you do? How do you recover from that? Bear in mind that each temperament needs a solution suited to its kind. A solution that works for say NFs won't work for an NT.

 

I know it's hard to relate to, and I am happy that you can't cause that would mean a great misfortune in your life. I meant situations like trusting the wrong person, exposing yourself by mistake, and -god forbid- being gullible, for however short a time. These are things that a rationalist, who expects a great deal of himself and tries so hard to be disciplined and wise, should it happen that he does them, it's very difficult to forgive himself.
Like imagine a situation that borders with tragedy, and it is caused by a stupid mistake (I don't mean like driving drunk, cause that is something that I can't relate to, I neither drink nor drive), like marrying an abusive person, losing a friend, bringing unhappiness into your life, all by one (or even worse) a couple of foolish mistakes. How can a rational mind move on from that, how can you forgive yourself, accept the reality of it, and most importantly overcome the shock of it! I know that thankfully many people never had to go through such an emotional and mental strain, but in my life, myself and family and friends have gone through that, so I am asking for input from someone who knows. Because, as it turns out, rationals are the most peculiar people on earth, we get post-traumatic stress when we make foolish mistakes.

 

Like imagine a situation that borders with tragedy, and it is caused by a stupid mistake... like marrying an abusive person.... How can a rational mind move on from that, how can you forgive yourself, accept the reality of it, and most importantly overcome the shock of it.... Because, as it turns out, rationals are the most peculiar people on earth, we get post-traumatic stress when we make foolish mistakes.

You move on from it by accepting that the marriage was a mistake and get out of it. To fix the damage you have to become self-aware. Notice your instinctive reactions to people and events. When you feel a tightness in you stomach or general uneasiness you are reacting to a trigger. Note the triggers and your reactions. Discuss it with a therapist, close friend, or with yourself in a journal. The goal is put a moment, a pause, between the trigger and your instinctive reaction so you can instead respond rationally.

You should feel not guilty for marrying an abusive person or for being the recipient of any abuse. You did not cause the abuser's behavior. You cannot change the abuser's behavior. You are not responsible.

 

Guilt, like all other emotions is very situation-oriented.

I feel a tremendous amount of guilt for "knowing better as a child" but not acting upon it out of fear. That, in combination with many other variables, led to my brother developing schizophrenia/schizo-affective disorder. He was committed many times over the past decade, and I required the traumatic experience of discovering my wife's secret liter-of-vodka-a-day drinking habit to recover my childhood memories sufficiently to help him. Guilt in this situation makes me want to wipe out the plague of harassment that has descended upon my family over the past 20 years.

 

I am glad you referenced all types of NT's in your re-worded question. I, too, have been through a traumatic experience that was not my fault. I don't feel guilty about it, because it was not my fault. Rather, I end up questioning myself and everything that I thought was true. When this happens I feel like I am looking at a bottomless pit. I have no idea what to do next, and end up coming to the conclusion that there is nothing I can do. However, if this was to happen due to a failure of a friendship or marriage, I would question my own actions and thoughts and try and figure out exactly what caused the problem. Most of the time there is no one cause, but rather a series of circumstances.

I feel annoyed over small stupid mistakes, and try to do better next time. On larger mistakes, if the reason why I made the mistake is obvious to me, and I have the opportunity to change it, I do not feel guilty and simply fix the mistake and move on. If it was something that caused someone else a lot of harm, then I would feel guilty. It is my opinion that responsibility needs to be taken for actions. If you made a mistake, then you need to acknowledge it, try to fix it, and try to never do it again. If someone else made a mistake, then they need to be responsible for it. (Although I am, in general, very lenient) It is a shortcoming of mine (in an INTJ's eyes) that I acknowledge my own shortcomings very easily, and try not to lay the blame on other people without also acknowledging my part in the problem.

 

I try not to be too hard on myself, after all life is a complete disaster, one can't be held up to the standards of perfection, given what a mess things are

 

Personality Types Under Stress INTJ

INTJs' precision thinking and need for accuracy causes them to be inflexible at times. Having thought out a strategy, the INTJ may stubbornly disregard those who they think have not spent as much time reflecting on an idea as they have. This, along with their drive to produce something significant, can make them demanding and difficult. If their plans and solutions fall short of their high standards, INTJ's feel pressured - as if everything is on the line. "Everything," for an INTJ, is the competence and ability to produce something significant. Fear of not living up to this expectation will increase their stress and possibly dissuade them from risking or trying out their ideas. They may then find themselves thinking about ideas that do not have a meaningful or productive end.
When stress increases, the INTJ can become argumentative and disagreeable. Social interaction, which is not their strength, becomes increasingly difficult for them. Not trusting their own abilities, they become preoccupied with obsessive notions. The INTJ may then find themselves spending an inordinate amount of time fighting horrible thoughts, tempting absurdities, and feelings of worthlessness. Fearful of others recognizing their perceived failure, the INTJ incessantly ruminates about mistakes, inadequacies, weaknesses, ineptness, and incompetence. Because this distracts them from risking what little confidence they may have left in themselves, it therefore keeps them from obtaining the success and achievement they so desperately need.



That's what's happening to me. Damn my INTJness. If I hadn't found it written I would never have been able to comunicate to you guys what the hell is going on and what I need help with. INTJs give me some brilliant idea as only you can cause as you can see I am in no condition to think straight.
PS I didn't marry the abusive person, that was an example. But If I had, I appreciate your support.

 

Hmm...to me, guilt is like an emotional sign that I did something wrong. Once I notice it's presence, I examine the reasons and then let go of it. If there is no real reason to feel guilty, the acknowledgement of that makes it vanish (only works if I really believe it. But I don't want to lie to myself anyways, so that's mostly fine). If I am indeed guilty of some mistake, I determine whether I should have been able to predict it, and depending on that, try to learn from it. Once the lesson is learned, I have no need to feel the guilt any longer. It has fulfilled its purpose. Of course I can still be sorry for the consequences I caused, but I don't need to feel guilty.

 

In order to feel guilt, you have to feel regret. Regret has always seemed counter-productive, so I don't regret things. As such there can't be any guilt towards anything I've ever done.

 

Might be quite a dumb question to ask, but I reached a point of realization after reading this thread...
Frustration and guilt.. how are these two tied in together, or how can these two be differentiated?

 

For me, frustration spurs problem-solving. Guilt (if I felt any) would spur a sharp spiral into depression and entropy.