[namiki]

I always felt that his beliefs were far more extreme than your average pureblood supremacist. Riddle passionately hated his father ("...my dirty, Muggle, father"), blaming him for abandoning him and his mother. Also, his mother's death had a very negative impact on him (he felt she could not have been a witch if she had died). But other than that, I agree that he was rather rational and Te-like.

Mightn't hating his father be reflective of a more subjective F though? That is, the personal connection part, as well as taking that on as a negative value system. He also seemed too power/ control hungry to be an INFJ. Couldn't Ni-Fi mimic Fe up to a point? Especially when he's using it as a means to an end, and not 'truly connecting' for the sake of it.

 

[namiki]

Yes, it makes sense and I'm leaning more and more towards an INTJ actually, even though Riddle's social skills without him using Fe will seriously puzzle me. Although, I have to say that Ni/Fe isn't exactly benign as you would expect. Ni/Fe very much feels the need to 'correct' other people's behaviour, so I really wouldn't say that an INFJ would be less power hungry than INTJ. Probably the INFJ would feel more like a messiah, while the INTJ would simply want the power, the end.

I tend to think of INFJs as very steely inside, just less obviously so at first sight (though that could just be me). I get the idea too that an INFJ's first choice would be to admonish or to persuade/ manipulate more gently, if that can get them what they want, as compared to an INTJ who's more likely to use power and control and only fall back on social persuasion as a second choice. The messiah part seems right too though. It seems like an INFJ even if acting for 'personal' ends would be more likely to justify their mission as being for the betterment of the world (I know what's right for you even if you don't know it yet) as compared to an INTJ's forcing their vision onto the world (I know what's right and if you were as clever as me you would too <-- not saying this is right or accurate, but just how they seem likely to think).

I get the impression that both Ni types especially when unhealthy would be prone to delusions of grandeur or superiority though (i.e. being superior to/ more enlightened than the people around them)

 

[namiki]

Wouldn't an INTJ also have more realistic master-plan than the INFJ in the first place?

Interesting statement. Mind elaborating? I'm curious. When you say 'realistic', do you mean the plan itself (as well as the motivation), or do you mean the way in which they carry out their plan (methodology).

 

[namiki]

Both, but mainly the plan/motivation itself. I can see an INTJ loosing sleep at night trying to solve a problem or a puzzle, but I don't see them go without sleep from the distress of the world being the way it is. While INFJs aspire to serve the larger will (of humanity, the Force, whatever), INTJs aspire to serve their own will. I feel that INTJ would focus more on their own competence and/or gaining knowledge, rather than the entire group-world.

Oh nice way of putting it. I can see that as the distinction between Dumbledore (INFJ) and Tom Riddle (INTJ) too.

I don't think the ability to read people, their motives and their minds must be attributed to Ni. Look at Snape, the only other person who could rival Voldemort when it came to Leglimency, and I'm fairly certain Snape was an INTP. He most definitely has inferior Fe to me, anyway.

I can also use myself an example, as I possess a similar ability as Snape does. I may not be an expert at Leglimency, but I do have an uncanny ability to what my friends now call "mind reading" people, because I can see straight into their souls and determine their mental defense mechanisms and essentially what makes people tick. I honestly think I would ascribe this ability more to my enneagram tritype than I do my MBTI type, which makes sense, considering that I actually think Snape shares it with me.

Snape's another puzzling character, though INTP 4w5 does seem to fit. I wonder how much an ability in Leglimency can be tied to cognitive functions anyway. We do get the idea from the books that it's both a skill as well as a 'talent' of sorts, with some people reading and shielding more naturally and others not. I suppose that means that you can learn it up to a point, but that you can be pre-disposed to be 'better' at it.

As for 'mind reading' people, I think every type can do it/ or thinks it can do it to some extent, and that the different functions combine to create that ability (i.e. same end = 'figuring out motivations of someone else' but different pathways). So an INFP might 'know' by putting themselves in another person's shoes etc.

Anyway, Voldemort is most definitely not a Te dominant type. I can't see the inferior Fi in him at all, although I can see how his fear of death is a sign of poor use of Fi valuing. Also, Voldemort manipulated people with his charisma and organizational skills more than he did by manipulating their emotions and desires. He made people want to be around him because he possessed power by simply being a very powerful wizard. The way he separates people into classes like he does is a sign of poor use of Fi with Te classification to me, especially with how he ascribes meaning to them not necessarily based on how people see Muggles and wizards as a whole which would be Fe logic, but derived from his childhood experiences. I think Voldemort was a 3w4 enneagram type, and his 4 wing had a counter-envious flair to it. Voldemort definitely strikes me as sexual dominant subtype.

So there you have it, I guess INTJ. Also contrast Voldemort to Sephiroth who I most definitely think was an INFJ in contrast, as he was clearly driven to "merge" with his "mother" and how he projects his feelings outwards by for example emotionally manipulate Cloud who was also emotionally suspectible to it, most likely being an ISTP in the original game. If it was one thing Voldemort was terrible of, it was emotionally manipulating people. If he couldn't terrify them or mock them into a rage so they'd lose emotional control, he essentially ran out of ideas. That's why Voldemort can't manipulate Harry because Harry's also being a Fi valuing type (ISFP) and he has his own ways of how things should be done and Voldemort pissed on Harry's Fi values. And I think that's pretty much all there is to it. Voldemort simply lacked the fine-tuned ability well-developed Fe users have when it comes to manipulating people's emotional judgement. Fi types essentially just try to piss you off by attacking your values and hope it will work.

I see Voldemort as being a definite 358, although I'm not sure which his core-type is, and whether he's sp/sx or sx/sp. Also, amusing (and accurate) description on how Fi works!

 

[namiki]

I see him as a definite 3. Voldemort's primary issue wasn't fear but lack of validation in my opinion. It's very clearly laid out how the deal with his mother and father affected the way he is. Also, during his time at Hogwarts he was also very popular and liked. Doesn't strike me as 5 or 8-ish necessarily. 5s tend to shy away from popularity. If he was a core 5, he would probably more likely have a circle of friends but spend most of his time researching everything with less focus on wanting to be the best. If he was an 8, I think he would be even more of a loner.

That does make sense. A core 5 would be more about competence as an end in itself, and an 8 about control, as compared to recognition (both actual and symbolic), and validation as you said, which seems to be a huge driver for him. It would also explain why he seems manipulative/ charming despite lacking Fe in his functional stack - on the understanding that he is not an INFJ. Actually, his tendency for manipulation and charm quite closely resembles Yagami Light from Death Note (if you're familiar with the character), whom I see as another INTJ 3w4.

I'm just curious, but why would an 8 tend to be more of a loner than a 3? (I'm asking this more for self-education since I'm not as familiar with the enneagram).

Riddle is INFJ. He was very efficient in manipulating people and understanding how to interact with them in order to get what he wanted. He has Fe not Fi. Dumbledore said as much he was like that. Ni Fe Ti Si rather than Ni Te Fi Se. INFJ are also the extroverted introverts which can also explain Riddle seeming extroverted with the way he charms people. Voldermort is like the Potterverse Hitler. Childhood trauma leading to a twisted desire to wipe a class or race of people of out in order to fit his ideal world where he decides what who is worthy enough to live or not. I can't see him as an INTJ. His ideals and way of thinking is very NF. He doesn't feel the F stereotype of being very emotional and warm but he isn't NT. NT's have a very different way of seeing things.

I think Riddle's ability to manipulate was very much a means to an end, which makes me think not-INFJ (contrast Dumbledore). I might be wrong on this, but it seems more likely for an INTJ to use charm as a means to an end (and personally recognizing it as a tool and not really 'them') as compared to an INFJ whom I see as having vision + charm linked in a more synchronous way. So an INFJ would 'socially manipulate' I guess, for want of a better word without seeing it as social manipulation, but because they genuinely feel for/ believe in what they're trying to achieve. Whereas an INTJ would use it as a temporary tool if necessary and if they view it as the most effective way to get what they want, but they would also drop it (as Riddle subsequently does) when they've established other means of getting what they want (in his case control/ power over his Death Eaters). Contrast too Dumbledore who remains more charismatic and 'gently persuasive' right up to the end.

 

[namiki]

True. Light's another individual whose type tends to be debated and still doubted. I do see some similarities between Tom Riddle and Light in defeat though, which seems slightly inconsistent with INFJ (though again I'm iffy on how right this is said to be): Both of them seem to react with 'No this cannot happen to me. ME!' in a fairly 'self-centered' way. Given that both of them weren't exactly healthy representations of whatever type they are (Light especially after he got his notebook). Which makes me think that however they justified their personal vision, it was still fairly 'me-centric' and about their dominance (for the sake of dominance) and power, than about the greater good, even for Light. It seems somehow that an INFJ facing failure of their vision, would react in a more global manner (or at least in a way that shows more awareness of others), kind of: 'Although I've only ever wished to do good/ for what's best for you...'

Hmm. Actually, what do you think the difference between tertiary-Fi idealism in terms of driving a vision (and there are humanitarian INTJs) vs Ni-Fe idealism might be? I'm rather curious, and not quite sure.

@Vincent: Nice call on the difference between Light and Riddle though! Which does make me wonder again. Hmm.

@Antiparticle: Thanks for the explanation on subjective idealism. I really enjoyed reading it!

 

[namiki]

Something which came up in another thread, but thought it might be an interesting discussion here. Since the thread started with Riddle being either an INTJ or INFJ, any reason why that over an ENTJ? We definitely see Ni and Te, as well as poorly handled Se/ Fi (I don't think we see much Fe), but what about the order of his cognitive functions? Also, do you think Riddle is necessarily a different character from Voldemort (having gone somewhat insane by that point).

Any thoughts or help on this?