I find them to be rather difficult to distinguish in practice sometimes. What are the similarities and differences? How do you distinguish them? Your ideas?
Ji vs introvert's Je, Je vs extrovert's Ji
Mikhail
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So wait you're saying like Fi vs an introvert with Fe, or Fe versus an extrovert with Fi...
well, Fe and Fi are just really different. Just because they're both "feeling" doesn't mean they have much in common. Do you have a specific case? You would just have to analyze on the basis of function, like always.
well, Fe and Fi are just really different. Just because they're both "feeling" doesn't mean they have much in common. Do you have a specific case? You would just have to analyze on the basis of function, like always.
I guess the real question that bothers me is how the overall attitude affects the way Je manifests itself, and what is the core essence that's being preserved. And to what extent and in what ways the introvert's Je resembles Ji.
That's 3 questions. And 3 more for Ji.
That's 3 questions. And 3 more for Ji.
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judging function are te, fe, ti, and fi
extroverts with a primary judging function (te/fe) are primary judgers meaning they would use their judgment functions first. making them primary judgers
extroverts with a primary perceiving function (ne/se) are dominant perceivers
introverts with a dominant judging function will have (fi/ti) as their first function, making them dominant judgers as well
and introverts who are dominant perceivers as well will use (ni/si) as their first function
For an introvert with a Ji, the Ji is dominant. So, I imagine--subjective decision making based on feelings(Fi) or logic(Ti)
INFPs and ISFPs maybe can let me know if this describes them: I watched a video that stated that Fi doms tend to have a hard time figuring out what they want to do until after they've made the decision, then, afterward, they realize it was the best decision for them--or maybe a regrettable one. I have also read that Fi doms are preoccupied with authenticity when it comes to the decision making process. An Fi dom might deliberate on "Which decision feels the most authentically me?" I also read that introverted feelers can reflect the feelings of others because whenever they hear someone's story they can imagine how they would feel in that situation. Empathy through simulation, I imagine.
INFPs tend to seek out the most authentic perspectives and ideas, and formulate their ideas and ideals based on their value system. This is why they are the definitive idealists, preferring expressing ideas that exemplify raw honesty, and indivualism.
ISFPs often tend to seek out experiences or ways to express themselves in more tangible ways, such as maybe how they dress or wear their hair, in a way that is authentic and true to themselves.
INTPs and ISTPs--I understand introverted thinking a little better, since I have a pretty good grasp of it in my own internal decision making process. I find introverted thinkers have an easier time making decisions, because they're not worried about their decisions being an authentic representation of themselves. Introverted thinkers tend to think more in terms of problem-solution. They may look at the world as a set of problems or they may see tasks that need to be performed and they can analyze problems internally, seeking an efficient solution. Introverted thinkers can be quick to form opinions because they're comparing what they take in with their internal logic and what makes sense to them, I imagine.
INTPs tend to often get lost in speculation, sifting through their ideas based on what seems more logical to them. Like Albert Einstein chasing a light beam in his mind. Some tend to be troubleshooters, however, applying their intuition to solving a problem.
ISTPs tend to analyze realities. Many tend to be the "fix it" people who like troubleshooting problems.
For both Fi and Ti dom, the judging function comes first, so taking in information, may not be as important as a preliminary first step. They may want to make some kind of choice, at least internally, before gathering more information. Introverts with Je, however, focus on the information gathering first.
ISTJs and ISFJs, being, predominantly introverted sensors--and I really hope I'm not way off on this, I can't Si to save my life, so I have no idea what the experience of an Si dom might be like, but I'll take a stab at it--start their decision making process by taking in information based on sensory data. Si doms are very aware of their sensory experience, and unhealthy ones can be overly detail oriented and controlling. Healthy ones can be very focused. When sifting through their personal experiences, they look for sensory details that might be clues to the right thing to do.
ISTJs, also being introverted feelers, also want to make authentic decisions. They're known for their sometimes brutal honestly, and sometimes get a bad rap for that, but they behave in a way that they believe is right, and often tend to respect the individuality of others. Also, I find ISTJs give the best compliments, because they're usually completely sincere and heartfelt.
ISFJs, also being extroverted feelers, and introverted thinkers, make decisions based on what they think makes the most sense. Internally, they might sift through their experiences for clues as to what decisions make the most sense to them, and what works best for everyone they care about. ISFJs tend to want to be more tactful and socially appropriate, and often come across as nurturing and supportive of others.
INFJs and INTJs primarily take in information via introverted intuition. I am an Ni dom, but I'm not sure exactly how Ni works. That might be why so many type descriptions get it so wrong. All I know is I spend most of my time obsessing over something, and I can't think about something the same way twice. If I'm going to think about a topic I thought about before, my endgame is always to discover something new by mulling it over. Sometimes I do just realize things just out of the blue. I do think the objective of introverted intuition to be able to see what's behind the curtain, so to speak. Ni doms can be somwhat distrustful of the apparent and the obvious and are very open to ideas that are counterintuitive. This can sometimes work to an Ni doms disadvantage, especially an unhealthy one, making them paranoid, or stubbornly persisting on ideas that have no evidence to back it up. However, many people throughout history have discovered significant mathematical and scientific truths by applying introverted intuition.
INTJs, like ISTJs want to also make authentic decisions, and also tend to be extremely honest. Many INTJs are drawn to fields such and engineering, because, as introverted intuitives, they love having a deep understanding of the universe, but their extroverted thinking drives them to want to use their discoveries in practical rather than speculative ways. INTJs can use their intuition to build systems.
INFJs, on the other hand, would rather apply their intuition to analyzing systems, being introverted thinkers. There is an aspect of INFJness that makes and INFJ want to apply their intuition to helping people, and counseling people. Many INFJs become counselors, and teachers, but there is another aspect of INFJs that drive them to understand things at a deeper level; many other INFJs become mathematicians and scientists. The duality of INFJs fascinates me a little. It's one of the few types that can be equally interested and apt toward both the arts and the sciences.
Je extroverts or EXXJs are, unlike the introverts extremely decisive, and will sometimes want to impose their decision making process on others.
ESTJs and ENTJs, as extroverted thinkers will want to impose what is logical to them, on their external world, and will often base their opinions on tangible facts with tangible evidence. a Te dom when asked a question, that they may not have tested out yet, are often hesitant to give an answer, because they want their answers to be as accurate and factual as possible. They may not be as quick as Ti doms to form opinions favoring objectivity over subjectivity. They may defer to intelligent people or experts on a topic for their opinions if they're not sure. Te doms, are primarily system builders, which is why they are often successful wherever they work, and are often drawn to management and entrepreneurship. Not all Te doms are necessarily neat freaks, but there is usually at least one aspect of their lives that they conduct in a manner that is extremely organized and efficient.
ESTJs, like ISTJs formulate their world views on sensory details. They tend to have a bad rap for being micromanaging perfectionists, and many unhealthy and unbalanced ESTJs are. Healthy ESTJs tend to be extremely hard working, and practical and realistic.
ENTJs, being extroverted thinkers and extroverted sensors--at least this is the vibe I get from ENTJs--can be very image conscious. They often come across, to me at least, as being very articulate, professional, and, often well mannered. I find ENTJs can be very good publicists, among other things, and this may also be why many tend to be successful in the business world, because, like ESTJs, they are extremely hard workers, but also are more aware of the impression that they give off to others, and the impression that people, in general, give off to other people. They may not see details as being as important as ESTJs, but can be just as much perfectionists.
Fe doms, are group-people. Fe doms, like Te doms conduct their lives in a way that's organized as well, but in a sense that's more people focused. They can apply their inferior Ti toward categorizing and analyzing the people around them, and the end result, is they know how to act in a way that is motivating toward each person they interact with. ESFJs are also this way when it comes to values. Unhealthy or unbalanced Fe doms can come across as manipulative or as like cult-leaders or cult-leader wannabes. They may be internally very logical, but a lot of what they say will not follow a particular form of hardcore logic, preferring to discuss feelings and values. Fe doms can sometimes be imposing when it comes to social rules. Just as Te doms may defer to intelligent people for information, Fe doms seek out people they believe are good people for advice or to align their sense of social propriety with theirs.
ESFJs--ESFJs have such a bad rap here. The way they often think is values first, and unbalanced ESFJs can come across as kind of preachy. A lot of what they believe is based on their own experience, what they feel has worked for them over time. Unhealthy ESFJs can be a little too pushy or preachy when it comes to what they feel is the right way to be, but balanced ESFJs are much more socially inclined. They can be extremely caring people, and often show it in ways that are sensory and comfort oriented, like worrying that you might need more clothing if it's cold out, cooking a meal, or doing little things around the house. Think what you want about ESFJs, but when I get sick, or need help,there's no other type that I wish I had to take care of me. There's a reason they're called the caregivers.
ENFJs are a little different in their Fe. ENFJs often apply it in ways that are more idealistic. They're often the promoters of social justice, and defenders of the defenseless. INFJs are too, to an extent, but ENFJs can be more in your face about it. They are often the social activists that lose their entire selves to their cause. Whenever I think of the essence of ENFJness I always think of the phrase "power to the people!"
ENTJs, ESTJs, ENFJs, and ESFJs, are very similar to their introverted counterparts, but tend to be quicker to make decisions, and will defer more to others when making a decision.
Last category: EXXPs or extroverts with a Ji:
ESFPs and ENFPs, like IXXJs, put perception first. They tend to bounce around a little more when it comes to the decision making process. EXXPs in general tend to prefer decisions that leave the door open to change their minds at a later time. All Ps do, but extroverts tend to a little more.
ESFPs can sometimes come across as having ADHD. Being primarily extroverted sensors and having the Fi need to make authentic decisions that feel right, they, can often lose themselves in the moment, and think "This is the best job/person/car/whatever, ever!", When something makes them feel bad, their first instinct is to go somewhere and do something that makes them feel good and try to forget about the bad feeling, whereas ISFPs tend to experience their feelings more fully. Unbalanced ESFPs have revolving door lives where they're always seeking something new that they think will make them feel better about life, and never settle down. Balanced ESFPs tend to learn a little more from past mistakes and have more stability. They also tend to be extremely good friends because they do what they can to be supportive and to create positive experiences.
ESTPs and ENTPs apply their perceptions in more
ENFPs are more preoccupied with changing their perceptions than changing their sensory environment. Like ESFPs, they'll tend to want to escape bad feelings, but they try to do it with their views and perceptions. ENFPs, tend to come across as extremely pollyanish to others, while they tend to hide away more negative feelings until they can't take it anymore. They only let a very few people see their darker emotions. ENFPs can change partners, jobs, etc., a lot too sometimes, if they're unbalanced, but not so much for a need to change their sensory environment, but because they may idealize a person or a thing they think is great. Healthier ENFPs tend to make the best friends because they are extremely caring and want to give their friends a positive outlook.
ESTPs and ENTPs are more analytical in their views, like INTPs and ISTPs.
ESTPs, like ESFPs, are very aware and adaptive of their environments, but being introverted thinkers, they tend to be more problem solvers, and can be pretty opinionated. An unhealthy ESTP--is basically Donald Trump. Their catchphrase is basically along the lines of "You're stupid, and I bet I could do all of this better than you!" They tend to be overly confident in their own intelligence and abilities. Or they can be really paranoid like unlealthy Ni doms, or they may think that their ideas are bigger and more grandiose than they actually. Healthy balanced ESTPs, apply their Ji, introverted thinking in ways that help them make sound decisions and solve problems. Like ISTPs they tend to be analytical problem solvers, but since it's their auxiliary function, their more perceptive and adaptive, and can have more fluid opinions.
ENTPs can also have very fluid opinions. This is why many people believe they make excellent lawyers and orators. Being Ne dom helps them to be able to shift their perceptions on things. I've read that an ENTP can debate both sides of an argument equally well. ENTPs get a bad rap for being trolls because they are opinionated, but playful, and can often have very unconventional views.
IDK why I wrote so much. This is probably way too much information. I guess I was just feeling out how the Je or Ji fits into each personality type.
INFPs and ISFPs maybe can let me know if this describes them: I watched a video that stated that Fi doms tend to have a hard time figuring out what they want to do until after they've made the decision, then, afterward, they realize it was the best decision for them--or maybe a regrettable one. I have also read that Fi doms are preoccupied with authenticity when it comes to the decision making process. An Fi dom might deliberate on "Which decision feels the most authentically me?" I also read that introverted feelers can reflect the feelings of others because whenever they hear someone's story they can imagine how they would feel in that situation. Empathy through simulation, I imagine.
INFPs tend to seek out the most authentic perspectives and ideas, and formulate their ideas and ideals based on their value system. This is why they are the definitive idealists, preferring expressing ideas that exemplify raw honesty, and indivualism.
ISFPs often tend to seek out experiences or ways to express themselves in more tangible ways, such as maybe how they dress or wear their hair, in a way that is authentic and true to themselves.
INTPs and ISTPs--I understand introverted thinking a little better, since I have a pretty good grasp of it in my own internal decision making process. I find introverted thinkers have an easier time making decisions, because they're not worried about their decisions being an authentic representation of themselves. Introverted thinkers tend to think more in terms of problem-solution. They may look at the world as a set of problems or they may see tasks that need to be performed and they can analyze problems internally, seeking an efficient solution. Introverted thinkers can be quick to form opinions because they're comparing what they take in with their internal logic and what makes sense to them, I imagine.
INTPs tend to often get lost in speculation, sifting through their ideas based on what seems more logical to them. Like Albert Einstein chasing a light beam in his mind. Some tend to be troubleshooters, however, applying their intuition to solving a problem.
ISTPs tend to analyze realities. Many tend to be the "fix it" people who like troubleshooting problems.
For both Fi and Ti dom, the judging function comes first, so taking in information, may not be as important as a preliminary first step. They may want to make some kind of choice, at least internally, before gathering more information. Introverts with Je, however, focus on the information gathering first.
ISTJs and ISFJs, being, predominantly introverted sensors--and I really hope I'm not way off on this, I can't Si to save my life, so I have no idea what the experience of an Si dom might be like, but I'll take a stab at it--start their decision making process by taking in information based on sensory data. Si doms are very aware of their sensory experience, and unhealthy ones can be overly detail oriented and controlling. Healthy ones can be very focused. When sifting through their personal experiences, they look for sensory details that might be clues to the right thing to do.
ISTJs, also being introverted feelers, also want to make authentic decisions. They're known for their sometimes brutal honestly, and sometimes get a bad rap for that, but they behave in a way that they believe is right, and often tend to respect the individuality of others. Also, I find ISTJs give the best compliments, because they're usually completely sincere and heartfelt.
ISFJs, also being extroverted feelers, and introverted thinkers, make decisions based on what they think makes the most sense. Internally, they might sift through their experiences for clues as to what decisions make the most sense to them, and what works best for everyone they care about. ISFJs tend to want to be more tactful and socially appropriate, and often come across as nurturing and supportive of others.
INFJs and INTJs primarily take in information via introverted intuition. I am an Ni dom, but I'm not sure exactly how Ni works. That might be why so many type descriptions get it so wrong. All I know is I spend most of my time obsessing over something, and I can't think about something the same way twice. If I'm going to think about a topic I thought about before, my endgame is always to discover something new by mulling it over. Sometimes I do just realize things just out of the blue. I do think the objective of introverted intuition to be able to see what's behind the curtain, so to speak. Ni doms can be somwhat distrustful of the apparent and the obvious and are very open to ideas that are counterintuitive. This can sometimes work to an Ni doms disadvantage, especially an unhealthy one, making them paranoid, or stubbornly persisting on ideas that have no evidence to back it up. However, many people throughout history have discovered significant mathematical and scientific truths by applying introverted intuition.
INTJs, like ISTJs want to also make authentic decisions, and also tend to be extremely honest. Many INTJs are drawn to fields such and engineering, because, as introverted intuitives, they love having a deep understanding of the universe, but their extroverted thinking drives them to want to use their discoveries in practical rather than speculative ways. INTJs can use their intuition to build systems.
INFJs, on the other hand, would rather apply their intuition to analyzing systems, being introverted thinkers. There is an aspect of INFJness that makes and INFJ want to apply their intuition to helping people, and counseling people. Many INFJs become counselors, and teachers, but there is another aspect of INFJs that drive them to understand things at a deeper level; many other INFJs become mathematicians and scientists. The duality of INFJs fascinates me a little. It's one of the few types that can be equally interested and apt toward both the arts and the sciences.
Je extroverts or EXXJs are, unlike the introverts extremely decisive, and will sometimes want to impose their decision making process on others.
ESTJs and ENTJs, as extroverted thinkers will want to impose what is logical to them, on their external world, and will often base their opinions on tangible facts with tangible evidence. a Te dom when asked a question, that they may not have tested out yet, are often hesitant to give an answer, because they want their answers to be as accurate and factual as possible. They may not be as quick as Ti doms to form opinions favoring objectivity over subjectivity. They may defer to intelligent people or experts on a topic for their opinions if they're not sure. Te doms, are primarily system builders, which is why they are often successful wherever they work, and are often drawn to management and entrepreneurship. Not all Te doms are necessarily neat freaks, but there is usually at least one aspect of their lives that they conduct in a manner that is extremely organized and efficient.
ESTJs, like ISTJs formulate their world views on sensory details. They tend to have a bad rap for being micromanaging perfectionists, and many unhealthy and unbalanced ESTJs are. Healthy ESTJs tend to be extremely hard working, and practical and realistic.
ENTJs, being extroverted thinkers and extroverted sensors--at least this is the vibe I get from ENTJs--can be very image conscious. They often come across, to me at least, as being very articulate, professional, and, often well mannered. I find ENTJs can be very good publicists, among other things, and this may also be why many tend to be successful in the business world, because, like ESTJs, they are extremely hard workers, but also are more aware of the impression that they give off to others, and the impression that people, in general, give off to other people. They may not see details as being as important as ESTJs, but can be just as much perfectionists.
Fe doms, are group-people. Fe doms, like Te doms conduct their lives in a way that's organized as well, but in a sense that's more people focused. They can apply their inferior Ti toward categorizing and analyzing the people around them, and the end result, is they know how to act in a way that is motivating toward each person they interact with. ESFJs are also this way when it comes to values. Unhealthy or unbalanced Fe doms can come across as manipulative or as like cult-leaders or cult-leader wannabes. They may be internally very logical, but a lot of what they say will not follow a particular form of hardcore logic, preferring to discuss feelings and values. Fe doms can sometimes be imposing when it comes to social rules. Just as Te doms may defer to intelligent people for information, Fe doms seek out people they believe are good people for advice or to align their sense of social propriety with theirs.
ESFJs--ESFJs have such a bad rap here. The way they often think is values first, and unbalanced ESFJs can come across as kind of preachy. A lot of what they believe is based on their own experience, what they feel has worked for them over time. Unhealthy ESFJs can be a little too pushy or preachy when it comes to what they feel is the right way to be, but balanced ESFJs are much more socially inclined. They can be extremely caring people, and often show it in ways that are sensory and comfort oriented, like worrying that you might need more clothing if it's cold out, cooking a meal, or doing little things around the house. Think what you want about ESFJs, but when I get sick, or need help,there's no other type that I wish I had to take care of me. There's a reason they're called the caregivers.
ENFJs are a little different in their Fe. ENFJs often apply it in ways that are more idealistic. They're often the promoters of social justice, and defenders of the defenseless. INFJs are too, to an extent, but ENFJs can be more in your face about it. They are often the social activists that lose their entire selves to their cause. Whenever I think of the essence of ENFJness I always think of the phrase "power to the people!"
ENTJs, ESTJs, ENFJs, and ESFJs, are very similar to their introverted counterparts, but tend to be quicker to make decisions, and will defer more to others when making a decision.
Last category: EXXPs or extroverts with a Ji:
ESFPs and ENFPs, like IXXJs, put perception first. They tend to bounce around a little more when it comes to the decision making process. EXXPs in general tend to prefer decisions that leave the door open to change their minds at a later time. All Ps do, but extroverts tend to a little more.
ESFPs can sometimes come across as having ADHD. Being primarily extroverted sensors and having the Fi need to make authentic decisions that feel right, they, can often lose themselves in the moment, and think "This is the best job/person/car/whatever, ever!", When something makes them feel bad, their first instinct is to go somewhere and do something that makes them feel good and try to forget about the bad feeling, whereas ISFPs tend to experience their feelings more fully. Unbalanced ESFPs have revolving door lives where they're always seeking something new that they think will make them feel better about life, and never settle down. Balanced ESFPs tend to learn a little more from past mistakes and have more stability. They also tend to be extremely good friends because they do what they can to be supportive and to create positive experiences.
ESTPs and ENTPs apply their perceptions in more
ENFPs are more preoccupied with changing their perceptions than changing their sensory environment. Like ESFPs, they'll tend to want to escape bad feelings, but they try to do it with their views and perceptions. ENFPs, tend to come across as extremely pollyanish to others, while they tend to hide away more negative feelings until they can't take it anymore. They only let a very few people see their darker emotions. ENFPs can change partners, jobs, etc., a lot too sometimes, if they're unbalanced, but not so much for a need to change their sensory environment, but because they may idealize a person or a thing they think is great. Healthier ENFPs tend to make the best friends because they are extremely caring and want to give their friends a positive outlook.
ESTPs and ENTPs are more analytical in their views, like INTPs and ISTPs.
ESTPs, like ESFPs, are very aware and adaptive of their environments, but being introverted thinkers, they tend to be more problem solvers, and can be pretty opinionated. An unhealthy ESTP--is basically Donald Trump. Their catchphrase is basically along the lines of "You're stupid, and I bet I could do all of this better than you!" They tend to be overly confident in their own intelligence and abilities. Or they can be really paranoid like unlealthy Ni doms, or they may think that their ideas are bigger and more grandiose than they actually. Healthy balanced ESTPs, apply their Ji, introverted thinking in ways that help them make sound decisions and solve problems. Like ISTPs they tend to be analytical problem solvers, but since it's their auxiliary function, their more perceptive and adaptive, and can have more fluid opinions.
ENTPs can also have very fluid opinions. This is why many people believe they make excellent lawyers and orators. Being Ne dom helps them to be able to shift their perceptions on things. I've read that an ENTP can debate both sides of an argument equally well. ENTPs get a bad rap for being trolls because they are opinionated, but playful, and can often have very unconventional views.
IDK why I wrote so much. This is probably way too much information. I guess I was just feeling out how the Je or Ji fits into each personality type.
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I'll use the Ji and Je in the dominant position to explain since its the most obvious. If the function is lower in the stack, it'll be less obvious and utilized:
1- The Ji-dom: A person who is Ji-dom will have Pe-aux, and that is what will be apparent to the outside viewer. The IxxP comes off as self-contained and cool yet flexible and spontaneous in their presentation.
2- The Je-dom: will come across as very organized and energetic, that energy projects outward into the environment to the extent that it comes across as pushyness to others. Its hard to miss.
3- An Introvert's Je-aux: Its similar to the Je-dom but its less energetic and pushy, more controlled and stable.
I did not understand what you meant by core essence. As for how introvert's Je-aux would be similar to Ji, I'm not sure how the similarity would manifest or if there can be that because Ji doesn't show to the outside world like Je-aux.
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Well, Je is always going to be auxiliary in an introvert, so it will always serve to support the dominant function, which will be a Perceiving function. In contrast, Ji in an introvert is a Judging function and is dominant. I think typically you will see more perfectionism, more idealism, and stronger T/F opinions out of Ji introverts - IxxPs tend to get hung up in T/F matters because they are so concerned with things being exactly logically/ethically right! IxFJs are more outwardly conscientious (IxFPs are typically compassionate and caring, but not always socially aware or graceful), while IxTJs are more efficient (IxTPs can be more exacting and critical, concerned with logical accuracy) - all in all, introverts' auxiliary Je comes off as more practically useful than dominant Ji!
It's the same pattern for Je and aux Ji. Je dominants - ExxJs - are going to lead with that Je function. They move in the direction of closure. ExxPs on the other hand move away from closure and towards novelty. So for Je dominants, T/F is going to lead overall, and you'll see that. ExTJs are typically very outwardly organized, efficient, competent. ESFJs are typically personable and directive, seeming to magically "herd" people - they use their F to organize their environment. ExxPs on the other hand aren't interested in organizing their environment - only interacting with it. They use their T/F as support for maintaining and increasing their level of interaction - ExFPs' Fi/Pe is warm and enthusiastic, encouraging people towards new potentials, and ExTPs' Ti/Pe is inventive and astute, a "helping hand" to identify emerging opportunities.
It's the same pattern for Je and aux Ji. Je dominants - ExxJs - are going to lead with that Je function. They move in the direction of closure. ExxPs on the other hand move away from closure and towards novelty. So for Je dominants, T/F is going to lead overall, and you'll see that. ExTJs are typically very outwardly organized, efficient, competent. ESFJs are typically personable and directive, seeming to magically "herd" people - they use their F to organize their environment. ExxPs on the other hand aren't interested in organizing their environment - only interacting with it. They use their T/F as support for maintaining and increasing their level of interaction - ExFPs' Fi/Pe is warm and enthusiastic, encouraging people towards new potentials, and ExTPs' Ti/Pe is inventive and astute, a "helping hand" to identify emerging opportunities.
That's a nice expression. Can you say anything more about this?
That's another nice expression. But I think you've explained it well enough already.
It's exactly this quantitative distinction that I'm not satisfied with. I'd like to have a qualitative one, that could potentially be identified reliably. Well, as much as an MBTI property can be identified reliably.
I had started writing my response to this, and while I was thinking about it I found 2 concepts that I think are relevant here. A function being extroverted implies two properties: orientation of consistency, direction of manifestation.
Since inward manifestations of a function are mostly not visible from the outside, we can only talk about intensity of outward manifestations. A dom Je is the most intense in this regard. A dom Ji is the least intense. A secondary Je is outwardly manifested by its nature, but its user, being an introvert, is inwardly oriented, which reduces the intensity of outward manifestations of Je. It's a similar situation with secondary Ji vs dom Je.
With the orientation of consistency the situation is somewhat different. Je by its nature is oriented towards consistency with the external reality. Te want its knowledge to be based on hard evidence, to be verifiable. Fe concerns itself with real attitudes of real people. Ti tries to keep its knowledge in cohesion using theories and principles. Fi wants to have a coherent value system to guide all decisions.
It's in this aspect (orientation of consistency), where I think lower function are more pure than higher ones. A dom Ji is the leading leg, it comes in contact with reality first and it responds to the reality first. That's why it's more likely to maintain its external consistency than a secondary Ji or a lower Ji. Likewise with Je, a dom Je represents what the person is and stands for, therefore it's more likely to maintain its internal consistency than a lower Je.
What do you think? I have a feeling that all I've written here is a piece of vague mess.
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@Mikhail: I understood the post no problem.
For the outside viewer the Ji-dom because of his Pe-aux seems flexible and spontaneous in his presentation at times but can appear consistent also, while the Je-dom seems very organized and consistent in his presentation in contrast with his inner world.
This is well-written and its consistent with my observations.
Yes, I've heard this from types that have the same function in the dominant and inferior positions. The dom-function user would see his function in the inferior position of the other as "raw" and "unrefined". However its manifestation is much less frequent.
I think its the other way around here. The Ji-dom's internal world is more organized and thus more internally consistent. Because they have inner control, they don't have the need to externally organize their environment (also the subject is the primary focus instead of external reality, hence it might not touch reality first and thus the need for a Pe-aux function to do so). Contrast this with the Je-dom who's Ji function is in the inferior position hence they have little inner consistency and control, so they organize their environment externally to compensate.
For the outside viewer the Ji-dom because of his Pe-aux seems flexible and spontaneous in his presentation at times but can appear consistent also, while the Je-dom seems very organized and consistent in his presentation in contrast with his inner world.
To recap, your opinion is that a higher Ji will not necessarily have more traits of Je than a lower Ji in terms of its consistency orientation, right? Looking at my experience, I can't find a strong pattern here, so I guess you are right on this point.
I think, at least for T, the trait of organizing your environment can be interpreted in this little framework as an outward manifestation of the drive for external consistency. As opposed to argumentativeness, love for debates, desire to prove yourself right, which can be interpreted as an outward manifestation of the drive for internal consistency. Te doms can exhibit this last trait as well, but they practically always do it as part of an "organizing" activity.
This could be a criterion.
What would be the F parallel then?
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The F equivalent could possibly be: Fe organizes the external social environment through emotional appeals to commonly shared values, while Fi crusades for defense of its values, by decrying other value systems through an appeal to universal human principles it has selected, or stubbornly cling to their value system against all opposition (it differs from Ti in that its not necessarily objective debating but can be thought of as value declarative statements)
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