Looks pretty legit. Melancholy/Sanguine, I can see it.

 

INFP, and I'm definitely not phlegmatic. I'm melancholy. So not too accurate for me.

 

Are you sure? The melancholic type is defined as being much more like a Thinker than a Feeler. This page http://fourtemperaments.com/4primary.htm definitely makes them sound like ISTJ's. :\

 

I'm an INFP, but I think I'm a PhlegMel...

 

Just wondering how closely you fit to this suggestion of type and one of the four temperaments.
...
INFP Pure Phlegmatic
...

I'm INFP 9w1 and per this thread I'm:

Sanguine Phlegmatic

43 Sanguine, 29 Melancholy, 14 Choleric, 43 Phlegmatic

Hail to you who is a Sanguine Phlegmatic!

The peaceful fun presence that makes every outing pleasant. The simplicity of a child in complexsituations. The stability to stay straight on the course. The creativity and charm to color a drab day. The positive agreeableness that makes groups work. The enthusiasm and energy to start over and over again. The patience to put up with provokers & listen while others have their say. The gift of mediation,uniting opposing forces & creating peace. The gift of humor & joy for every situation. The will to live in such a way that even your enemies can't find anything

 

I'm INTJ with a fairly low J preference. I test Phlegmatic/Choleric ("PhlegChlor"). I'd say pretty accurate.

 

I'm an INTJ, and I am...

Melancholy Choleric
7 Sanguine, 50 Melancholy, 43 Choleric, 36 Phlegmatic

I was surprised by Choleric, but I guess it fits quite well for me when paired with Melancholy. I'm pretty damn awesome.... Apart from those dark moments when I'm not.

 

Double post

 

Sanguine. I can see that. Though I can't say I've ever been much of an organized sports person.

 

I tested choleric, but I think I'm more sanguine, the tests are really confusing thought sanguine-chloleric fits well I guess

 

@Eric B After having read that, I'm not entirely sure if I'm Supine, but I do relate to some of the things described. I think I'm going to read and look more into this!

 

You can try the report profiles from here, as well:
Free Temperament Reports for Clients

 

I'm ISTJ, which means pure Melancholic. However, I always thought that the ohter pure ones would be ISFP - Phlegmatic, ENFP - Sanguine and ENTJ - Choleric.

 

When first looking for the temperament blends in each type, I also thought that ISFP also looked like just as much a pure Supine (which gets bundled with Phlegmatic in the five-to-four correlation) as the INFP, and ENFP looked as much like a pure Sanguine as the ESFP. Also, the ESTJ as much the pure Choleric as the ENTJ, and the INTJ as much the pure Melancholic as the ISTJ.

In all these cases, what we have here is the S/N divide, and that factor was totally foreign to me coming from the FIRO-based world of APS. The difference between those pairs in the expressed/wanted matrix is expressed Control, or Keirsey's cooperative/pragmatic. Meaning both expressed and wanted Inclusion were congruent; which translates to them all sharing the same Interaction Style, and thus looking very similar on the surface. (I wasn't even aware of the Interaction Style groupings in the beginning, so those really helped me with that. I was starting to put them together, in realizing that T/F and J/P both seemed to fit the "wanted" dimensions somehow).
So it took time to learn to see that [Control] difference in those lookalike types.

@Eric B is right.

I'm ANxP as far as I can tell, if you guys want a 4 letter code, the closes one would be INFP, thou I'm kind of ENTP-ish, so here is my temperament:

Unknown in inclusion, melancholic in control, supine in affection.

Some kind of melancholic supine or supine melancholic. Am not phlegmatic at all.

Melancholy in Control would be SJ (And it's a very good fit, and Keirsey and Berens say it is Melancholic; not just my own speculation or something like that). Though, I think what the problem might be (if NFP), is not identifying with the Supine in Control from the focus on its open dependence. So you realize you're not big on approaching others in leadership and responsibilities, but you don't feel dependent, so the next closest thing is the Melancholy in Control, who is reserved low expressed Control or cooperative like the Supine, but is very independent. (low wanted Control). The Inclusion temperament can influence this, and since you've been saying ambivert, it's likely Phlegmatic Supine or Phlegmatic Sanguine. The Phlegmatic part covers the moderate expressiveness or ambiversion, but since it responds as a Supine or Sanguine, you still might not identify with Phlegmatic.
However, since expressiveness is moderate, you are not as reserved as a pure Supine, and since this involves how you approach people, then you may not identify with the Supine in Control either. (Those profiles don't take into account how different temperaments in the other areas will influence. They're most accurate if the same temperament in all the areas).

But now you're saying ENTP as well, but NT would be Choleric in Control, and it's the same thing. You might not identify with the focus on "controlling" others in the profile, because the moderately expressive and highly responsive (wanting) Inclusion temperament tempers it down (this happens to a lot of NTP's).

So if you're sure on N and P, then I guess it's best for you to focus on the T/F dichotomy. Is your focus more impersonal (analysis of things purely as objects) or personal/interpersonal? (Looking more at the human side of things, and how people are affected by objects).

 

@Eric B is right.

I'm ANxP as far as I can tell, if you guys want a 4 letter code, the closes one would be INFP, thou I'm kind of ENTP-ish, so here is my temperament:

Unknown in inclusion, melancholic in control, supine in affection.

Some kind of melancholic supine or supine melancholic. Am not phlegmatic at all.

<.< oh and not interested in helping like a enneagram 2 lol.

 

I think I may be Melancholy/Phlegmatic which would suggest INFJ according to the OP. I think I'd rank Melancholy first, but seem more Phlegmatic when it comes to emotional ups and downs. I don't relate much to the Melancholy's quick "moodiness". I think many things are not worth getting worked up about.

 

The Phlegmatic will temper the Melancholy, so you won't have as much of the moodiness (Phlegmatics don't have the emotional energy for that).
But since you have INTJ there, do you identify with Choleric at all? Or were you never sure about the T?

 

Yes, I also relate to Choleric in some ways. Task-oriented, independent and usually a quick worker. One thing that I could really relate to is that I don't like interference on a project I'm working on unless I ask for input. I think what I couldn't relate to in Choleric was the strong externalized anger and being bossy or controlling when it comes to other people. I definitely want complete control over my projects and business, but I don't care to control everyone else's business. I'm far more critical of systems that don't work, or my own work, rather than other people.

Edit: I'll add I'm not that familiar with the system yet. The info on the web is a bit different depending on the site, so I'm not sure what exactly identifies each type.

 

That sounds Choleric in Control, and what you don't identify with is Choleric in Inclusion. (Which Choleric profiles were you going by? Was it the ones I link that distinguish between Inclusion, Control and Affection, or was it some other profile somewhere?)
In other words, your need for independence would fit NT, but your Interaction Style is not "In Charge" (EST/ENJ); since you're an introvert, it is "Chart the Course" or Melancholic. (INJ). So that will shape your surface behavior, and you won't externalize anger (that's more an E thing; I's hold it in, and then maybe explode later), and even the "controlling" will be tempered by the reservedness of the I. Cholerics in Control will look more like those stereotypical descriptions when they are extroverts (ENT's).

So does T fit better than F?

 

That sounds Choleric in Control, and what you don't identify with is Choleric in Inclusion. (Which Choleric profiles were you going by? Was it the ones I link that distinguish between Inclusion, Control and Affection, or was it some other profile somewhere?)

Those I looked up initially didn't include inclusion, control, or affection though I don't recall which sites they were specifically. I did look at one called The pastoral counseling center site which had the three types. I just saw the one you linked to called temperaments.info on the other page. I'll have to take a look at that one as well.

In other words, your need for independence would fit NT, but your Interaction Style is not "In Charge" (EST/ENJ); since you're an introvert, it is "Chart the Course" or Melancholic. (INJ). So that will shape your surface behavior, and you won't externalize anger (that's more an E thing; I's hold it in, and then maybe explode later), and even the "controlling" will be tempered by the reservedness of the I. Cholerics in Control will look more like those stereotypical descriptions when they are extroverts (ENT's).
So does T fit better than F?

That makes sense, especially with introverts holding in anger versus externalizing it right off which I can relate to. Also, yes, T fits better than F.

 

OK, now I'm seeing sides of you I had never heard before, so that does sound NT. Could be SJ, but even they don't sound quite like that. Definitely low wanted Control (Melancholy or Choleric), criteria for accepting control is personal benefit; and does sound definitely T (impersonal "if-then" judgment of what's most expedient).
Again, if an NP, then high wanted Inclusion will temper the Control, so you wan't want to control others, knowing how it is not friendly. Hence, you would overall appear to have the "I don't control you, so please don't control me" attitude of the Melancholy. Still, if pushed, then the aggressiveness of the Choleric comes out, in putting the other in his place, and perhaps going to great lengths in doing so.

Yeah, so you really do sound like something between an INTP and ENTP. ENTP's get all out aggressive with authority like that, while INTP's would be much slower or more subtle, and you sound inbetween.

To really square away I/E (since type does not have "A"), you would need to determine whether Ti or Ne is dominant. Since you seemed to be more sure of NP than T, then it seems Ne might be dominant, making you an E (despite the moderate expressiveness of the Inclusion temperament).

 

you know how it is, its difficult to capture all sides of someone....

I tend to have this rigid self control, its difficult for me to "let go" and relax, to loosen up and have fun, that bit is sort of melancholic, but....

I can clearly see the difference between me and a melancholic or choleric type 1 ISxJ I personally know for example, who is hypercritical, nitpicks at insignificant details, perfectionistic, very rigid and stubburn with outbursts of highly controlled anger which manifests more as "holyer then thou" criticism, whining, complaining, manipulation and this feeling in the air around her that she is constantly angry/critical and unsatisfied with others and herself. The negative possibility overload she suffers from under stress doesen't happen with me either.

I'm not perfectionistic and generally I'm friendly, ppl say I'm relaxed (which I'm not, just seems that way) and I don't seem angry (because I'm not lol). For me its more of a switch that gets flipped and I go from smiling pleasent person to "I will rip your heart out and crush it you amoral, controlling, idiotic son of a bitch! Nobody tells me wtf to think, do or how I should fucking behave! Nobody fucks with me or the people I care about! I don't do it to you so don't do it to me!"

HULK SMASH!!!!!!!!!! WITH LOGIC!

I chose E in stead of I because despite not being outgoing or social (if that is what an E is then I'm a strong introvert) I have a focus on the external and need stimulation to get energy. I get depressed, tired and moody if I'm alone with nothing other then my thoughts to focus on.

I have considered NTP as a possibility, but I'm empathic and have a strong sense of right and wrong, can read others with ease, care mostly about the bottom line and if things are usable, valid...not about the beauty of logical theory/systems. So I'm not sure, don't relate much to Ti.

Maybe there is something to this coleric thing...

 

Pure Phlegmatic seems to fit me pretty well, actually. But I suppose Phlegmatic/Sanguine fits as well.

The thing about Phlegmatic is that those who are of that temperament are often described as "unemotional". The stability of the Phlegmatic temperament I can relate to quite well, as well as them sort of being "go with the flow". I suppose this makes me appear more introverted than some of my fellow ENFPs.

 

ENFP would be Sanguine in Inclusion (socially or Interaction style--ENP "Get Things Going"), and Phlegmatic in Control (conative: leadership and action).
Temperament: Phlegmatic in Control
So those stereotypical traits of being "unemotional" might not hold; as they are likely more tied to the Interaction Style (which would be very expressive and emotional in your case). This is I believe why Keirsey got NF and NT backwards in mapping the ancient temperaments to them. (You can see some clear NF traits such as "democratic" in that profile).

 

ENFP would be Sanguine in Inclusion (socially or Interaction style--ENP "Get Things Going"), and Phlegmatic in Control (conative: leadership and action).
Temperament: Phlegmatic in Control
So those stereotypical traits of being "unemotional" might not hold; as they are likely more tied to the Interaction Style (which would be very expressive and emotional in your case). This is I believe why Keirsey got NF and NT backwards in mapping the ancient temperaments to them. (You can see some clear NF traits such as "democratic" in that profile).

True. I do believe that, oddly, I used to think I was more Phlegmatic/Melancholic, but I think that was because of the resources I used. Here's what somebody directed me to: Fig Hunter - Temperaments

I do relate well to Phlegmatic in Control quite a bit. I definitely cannot relate to being Pure Sanguine, or even Sanguine/Phlegmatic. This might be because of my tritype, the fact that I'm phobic Six, Sp-primary, and have got a strong Nine fix. I'm just slightly more indecisive than the Phlegmatic in Control description says. ^^' And I'm a bit more pushover-y (definitely a weakness of mine). Although I do have some areas in which I shall be very stubborn. Those are rare, though. Let's see:

How many people will I allow to control me?
--> Well, I just don't like to be given a lot of power. I like being in the group. I like having a degree of independence and I like the ability to make my own decisions when it comes to my own personal freedom. But I definitely don't mind having authority being placed over me. Sometimes I think I prefer it. So I suppose I'll allow plenty of people to have a measure of control over me.

How many people do I want to control?
--> I don't want to control people. I'd rather persuade people or inspire people to action, not force them to.

Eh, I guess that makes me a Phlegmatic in Control, doesn't it?

 

@Rim; I should have used the mention feature before; but I see you're wearing ENFP now. Don't think ENTP is possible, as I deduced, above?

 

So basically as an ENTP I am an optimistic cranky fuck? Man that rings true at the moment since im trying to give up caffeine... Although im more Tired and cranky!

 

@Eric B

Ok I think I'm supine in incusion and affection for sure, but unlike @Julia Bell I hate being controlled in any way. If I'm threatened in any way my instinctual reaction is to obliterate the threat through mental and if need be physical force. I snap easaly :angry: and instantly without even thinking. Very reactive to injustice, amorality, attempts at undermining my independence or that of other people...I don't tolerate shit unless its at work and I have to hold it in which costs so much energy etc.

I am probably capable of more amorality, sadism and harm then the person who triggers the reaction in me. It takes a lot of energy to focus and not break some bones or spirits...really fells like hulk going out of control...dat sadistic rage.

It doesen't happen with anything else thou, someone can fuck up bad and I'll be supportive, relaxed with penty of ideas on how to fix it. I'll even make sure the person is okay and understands the mistake in a friendly and pleasent way preserving harmony. :tongue:

Sounds kinda supine/choleric/supine doesen't it? Looking into T&F.

I just read choleric in control....HOLY SHIT...its exactly me. However I don't want to control others...unless they become a threat, annoying or something other equally bad.

I think I found it: SCS it is.

....this explains a lot, my NT-ish tendencies, the NF-ish tendencies, the seemingly introversion with external focus that isn't introversion....the almost Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde split lol. Wohoo!

What MBTI type would supine in inclusion, choleric in control and supine in affection be? (yes I have some anger issues ) E, N and P seems like a certainty now, even if I don't seem sociable. eNxP hmmmmm...

 

@Eric B

Ok I think I'm supine in incusion and affection for sure, but unlike @Julia Bell I hate being controlled in any way. If I'm threatened in any way my instinctual reaction is to obliterate the threat through mental and if need be physical force. I snap easaly :angry: and instantly without even thinking. Very reactive to injustice, amorality, attempts at undermining my independence or that of other people...I don't tolerate shit unless its at work and I have to hold it in which costs so much energy etc.

I am probably capable of more amorality, sadism and harm then the person who triggers the reaction in me. It takes a lot of energy to focus and not break some bones or spirits...really fells like hulk going out of control...dat sadistic rage.

It doesen't happen with anything else thou, someone can fuck up bad and I'll be supportive, relaxed with penty of ideas on how to fix it. I'll even make sure the person is okay and understands the mistake in a friendly and pleasent way preserving harmony. :tongue:

Sounds kinda supine/choleric/supine doesen't it? Looking into T&F.

I just read choleric in control....HOLY SHIT...its exactly me. However I don't want to control others...unless they become a threat, annoying or something other equally bad.

I think I found it: SCS it is.

....this explains a lot, my NT-ish tendencies, the NF-ish tendencies, the seemingly introversion with external focus that isn't introversion....the almost Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde split lol. Wohoo!

What MBTI type would supine in inclusion, choleric in control and supine in affection be? (yes I have some anger issues ) E, N and P seems like a certainty now, even if I don't seem sociable. eNxP hmmmmm...

That's exactly what I am, and I'm INTP. (My expressed Inclusion was 1, out of 0-9, so I'm definitely on the low or introvert end, but if you're higher up, such as Phlegmatic Supine The Phlegmatic Supine in Inclusion then I could see you falling on the E side. So you think pure Supine and not Phlegmatic Supine? pS is the impression I had always gotten).

You sound even more Choleric than me. I wonder if Choleric Compulsive: Temperament Compulsive Choleric in Control
Again, Supine is the diametric opposite, and basically pulls you the other direction (to be passive and accepting rather than aggressive and critical), and it's in both the surface social, and deep personal areas, so that's why you don't appear to control others ("unless..."). You have to get past the social level before you get to the Control area, and if you're slower in approaching others (on a surface or deep level) to begin with, you'll be slower to control others. It's only when they're already in your life or personal space that the Control temperament will surface.

And again, Choleric in Control is NT, and the Choleric reactions you describe clearly do not sound like a Feeling type. Again, Feeling generally seeks harmony with others, and even if annoyed, will try to come up with a more peaceful solution first and be more willing to back down, even if having a loud emotional reaction. What you describe is the "cold", pragmatic (instead of cooperative) and structure (instead of motive)-focused approach of the NT. The Interaction style (whether INP Behind the Scenes or ENP Get Things Going) will otherwise seek to be supportive and more friendly with people, as you also describe.

That's why I say TP's (as well as FJ's) are "enigmatic types". They have mixed responsive behaviors (people/task), so can go back and forth from nice and friendly to cold and critical very quickly. ITP's and EFJ's in particular, are blends of diametric opposite temperaments, and can be all over the place in behavior.
It's really hard to know when to be yielding and friendly, and when to be aggressive and tough, and you often do both at the wrong times, and then the other side of the temperament is all the more frustrated. Choleric likes Supine because they can be easily controlled, but then despise this as "weak". Supines like Cholerics to lead, but then the Choleric does not give him the affirmation he wants, and then feels resentful. Both temperaments already have a tendency as it is to react when not acknowledged, but both in the same person is really an internal tug of war, and when we do react to others, it will be even more violent.

This also creates further difficulty in identifying with NTP, since both NT and Ti has been characterized as so "unemotional and detached". Most INTP's are probably really Phlegmatic in Inclusion, and hence fit that stereotype better, so when the Supine Choleric reads that and yet recognizes his own tendency for strong emotion, he will often be led to feel he is a Feeler. A handful of other INTP's on these boards seem to have gone through that as well.

 

@Eric B

Is pure supine in both inclusion and affection...in control its choleric, but I have or feel no need to outright control others or lead. I just want to be in charge of myself and fight back outside control. Its more independence then wanting to have control.

I tend to take over or tell others what to do when the one in charge has failed or the other person is heading towards disaster. I'll do it in an attempt to fix the situation. I'm also democratic, include others, listen to all sides...I can't be harsh it feels wrong, unless it feel it justified in self defense or in the defense of others...I'm capable of some intense level of burning rage and defiance.
If people get stubborn and don't listen to the advice I may get a bit pushy, but abandon them soon after.

If someone becomes a threat I become extremely controlling, annoying ppl will be crushed lol...or punched, maybe both.

I don't like to lead or control people, if I have a choice I'd rather not...but I don't like to be led or controlled either....I hate it with a burning passion.

Its the single flaw I can find in the whole choleric in control thing, which is why I said melancholic originally, but that didn't explain my short fuse and temper.

 

Again, the control is tempered by the Supine who wants peace and acceptance, and thus seem like a “democratic” Feeler.
Also, the taking charge when those in charge is typical of NT. They demand competence (in self and others; main temperament need, according to Keirsey). So this is when the aggressiveness of the Choleric will kick in (where others, namely “cooperative” SJ Melanchly or NF Phlegmatic or Supine in Control), will be slower to take charge without “proper authorization”) Again, the motto is "If you want things done right, you have to do them yourself”

 

Yeah you are right. Remind me never to join a random normal LOL game again...I just flipped my lid at a flamer and...basically yeah I hit like truck, blunt, brutal, demanding and in control. Choleric it is....

Looking into ENTP.

thx man.....^^ we hijacked the thread thou....think it was educational?

 

Not really hijacked. The OP was asking if poeple's temperament combo matched their type according to the proposal I've been promoting, and you're another close match. (Still; is I preference and Ti dominance out of the question?)

I should also reitirate that your avatar does excellently capture the combo. The “Supine Wolf”, or “Supine Lupine” even! :laughing: The face is one of the definitions of “supine”, but it's still a savage beast when angry. On I always thonght of for myself is “Ferdinand the Bull”.

 

Hmm idk lol. ^^ haha the flower smelling bull, yeah that works, thou I doubt I'll be satisfied with smelling flowers and doing the same thing all my life. Do you have some phlegmatic in the mix? I think I'm too neurotic, dislike predictability and routine too much, can't focus well on doing the same thing and do the what seems more interesting or least boring approach to things and people.

How do you see TI manifesting in you? I am reading the descriptions and I still think Fi fits better, but Ti doesn't seem so far off either. I definitely have Ne, a P for sure and there are several signs of inferior or at least tertiary Si. Test INFP almost all the time....so idk. Several tendencies indicate extroversion, but I do test as an introvert.

Also there are the doubts about the MBTI's validity, is this it or is there more to it, the theory might be incomplete, we may be missing something, improvements to what it is and so on, maybe reconstructing the entire theory from scratch. I don't have to fit the theory, it has to fit me ...

I wish the decision was a simple one, but you can't really call a cup of black liquid coffee if it only tastes sort of like coffee, but also as several other things. Know what I mean?

I'm sure about pure supine and choleric mix, about being a 6w5-4-1 sx/sp cp-phobic mix, about being an N and a P. The rest I don't know how to decide yet. I know I'm more aggressive then INFPs. I have that "conviction" when it comes to ethics, more rough around the edges, unafraid to start a fight, to backtalk or defend myself, hell I reactively just do it by instinct...and no I'm not as feely as the typical INFP...idk...it could be INTP, ENTP or even ENFP.

INTP kinda fits well, ENTP fits kinda similarly well. Need more time, maybe more input on how they are...see how it compares. MY ENTP bro has this thing where he criticizes people a lot, especially for their grammar...I have no idea why he does it thou.

One interesting reason I think I'm Ne dom and Si inferior is because no matter how much effort I put into not making mistakes when dealing with detailed work...i always make some and its always because I wasn't paying attention....I really freaking hate details and dealing with it is so damn boring, my energy just gets sapped as soon as I have to. Could never deal with learning grammar ...

^^; thou I know you are thinking something along these lines: foo' you notice we are dissecting systems right and playing around with them. If this ain't NTP then I don't know what is! If you are I agree....and yeah this is so much fun.

ESTJ Choleric/Melancholy ("ChlorMel")


That is me to a T.

...damn man, wish it was so clear cut sometimes.