key motivations for what?

 

Likewise, I would like to get a more definitive question to answer the above query.

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.

According to a friend, a 5w4 develops his/her introverted functions (Ni and Fi) primarily (as the experience and abundance of Ni-Fi loops seems personally relatable to myself), then focuses on the extroverted functions (Te and Se) second. If you chose to disregard the latter, another perspective that this could be attributed to into another system - Turbulent vs Assertive.

In a discussion we had previously on this forum (linked below), the Ni-Se dynamic seems more pronounced in Turbulents, while the Te-Fi is more pronounced in Assertives. Unfortunately, without further clarification on the above query, I am rather at a loss to write anything meaningful without bringing up basic terminology.

As for finding a universal truth, I believe that is closely attributed to NT types in general, rather to one respective type.

 

http://personalitycafe.com/intj-for...ntj-forum-scientists/1152730-differences-between-turbulent-assertive-intjs.html

 

What are your key motivations?

-To understand (see deeply/accurately/things 'unseen')
-To advance/grow/progress
-To satisfy my SX/sp instincts
-To live 'beautifully'

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at

Usually on the task at hand but I like to let my mind wander, time allowing, and let my Ni show me what it wants to focus on. Ni recalls things to my conscious mind that my subconscious thinks I should take a second look at or show me connections/patterns 'I' hadn't thought of. I have a few complex questions I want Ni to 'solve' and focusing on one can feel like taking a toy out of a toy box and playing with it. This is what I'm usually doing when I look like I'm daydreaming.

and how does Te fits into being a 5w4.

I'm grateful to have a balance for Ni, especially one that keeps me grounded to 'does this work?' reality.

Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.

Universal. 'Authenticity' is a value of mine. So is 'order'. I believe in singular objective truth for the most part. I feel so strongly about this that one of my 'test questions' (when meeting new people) is whether all truth is subjective.

 

What are your key motivations?

Could you elaborate? I think without elaboration, I won't be able to answer more conclusively. Mostly to discover the truth and to find meaning.

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.

Universal truth is more important to me at this stage in my life. In my teens and 20s, my own truth was important to me. Ni is the first filter any sort of information comes through. It's so natural, that it would be like me asking you how your "focus" your Ti. I guess, for me, I seem to be more interested in symbols, myths, and legends (or things that are commonly associated with the collective unconscious) to find meaning in humanity. I also look for patterns and clues to find reason behind people's actions. People really fascinate me.

I would appreciate as much information as possible.

Thanks in advance.

If you could give some direction, I'd be able to help you out better. When you say "as much information as possible", my instinct is to say, "about what?"

If you come back and clarify, I'll go into more detail. : )

 

If you could give some direction, I'd be able to help you out better. When you say "as much information as possible", my instinct is to say, "about what?"

If you come back and clarify, I'll go into more detail. : )

I left all pretty open because my idea was that you guys would choose by yourselves what specifically to talk about instead of me choosing any topic, because maybe I wouldn't get into the key parts. However it seems that I didn't give enough information because I didn't define what to answer. I will try to be more specific.

Firstly, my idea is to know how this rationalism-pragmatism of INTJs joins together with that need of authenticity of the 4 wing, because I feel like sometimes trying to be unique and different it's extremely far from pragmatism and out-world results (Does this make you inner conflict?).

Also, I would like to know important is art (poetry, music, writing, etc.) for you and if that relieves you from your rational side or you somehow still analyze art rationally. Probably you may use art as a tool to understand the human condition.

Thanks.

 

Key motivations? Becoming the ubermensch, of course! opcorn:

 

I know you asked for a from the horse's mouth answer, and that there are probably a bazillion 5w4's stalking this thread with a better means to elaborate.

But as someone who has worked with INTJ 5w4's and picked up on our differences, their motive reads as if they want to study their personal interests alone, in privacy, with full liberty to explore the path they want to explore to the extent and time limit they choose without being told what to do or how to do it. When they aren't in a good spot, they come across as being really, really afraid of being overwhelmed while at the same time defensive that anyone invade their privacy (in fact, if that happens they physically move away).

Could be wrong, but I also think they want to maximize the amount of knowledge they have (to the point that they are the keeper of that knowledge), while minimizing exposure to things that are hard to deal with or require getting into conflict, or being available to people emotionally. More or less they're usually successful in this. There's an 8-ish side to them that wants everything for themselves, and doesn't want to give back of themselves what they feel they don't have to give. That lower end of 8 and 4 can also come off as being quite rejecting of other people, and even a little provocative at times - which I know I feel frequently with them, having the 1 and 2 that wants to help them : )

The Te is weaker in the 5w4's. They act blunt and what not, but I've seen them openly cry in public which isn't typical for Te-heavy types. They almost always look much more like a poster child for Ni. The Te-ish 5's are the w6's who can look a bit more balanced with Ni and Te.

 

I identify with this a lot ... except the crying part. I'm not much of a cryer, I've found. Almost 90% of my crying is triggered from being sick or having a high fever. I have chronic pain as well, so when I get physically overwhelmed, that inescapable (though transient) physical misery "gets" me. Especially if I can't read (bright lights making a headache worse).

 

I want to explore my interests without people cramping my style. It's easy enough with most things - work, hobbies - but hard with relationships. I read a lot, mostly fiction. Love poetry. Music is important, too - mostly classical. I'm not visual and hence not much into visual arts. There are exceptions of course.

My ideal life scenario would be living in a secluded house surrounded by beautiful nature a shortish drive from a major city with interesting cultural opportunities - theaters, concerts, exhibitions etc. I'd write novels and share my life with one highly compatible person. We'd naturally give each other plenty of mental space and share the moments you want to share. Shared silence for the most part. I like touch a lot. No kids. I've had a vasectomy.

Beyond that one person, I'm not particularly interested in people. I don't much care what they do with their lives as long as they don't stand in my way. They'll regret if they do. Not a fan of the species, but they can be interesting to analyse when there's sufficient distance.

Truths come on a scale of applicability from extremely personal to absolutely universal. Only a fool would claim that truths are only subjective or only universal.

I don't see Jungian cognitive functions as distinct enough to describe how they play out in my life. Reality is complex. Enneagram wise I relate to 5, 4 and 9 but am not interested enough to investigate whether there is any substance to the tritype theory.

 

In light of the correction, I have two goals - one a realistic one, and one an unrealistic (at the current time).

My realistic one - Is to be well educated in the arts of science (geology more specifically), and that apply that understanding in making the earth a cleaner place to live. I picture myself living somewhere remotely, perhaps with family, surrounded by a two-story library, with a fireplace in the background, to the sound of logs cracking in the fire, while sitting on a leather chair, reading a novel theory at night. I always thought of libraries as fascinating places, full of mystery and knowledge, cataloged appropriately. In my youth, I always suspected there would be a hidden vault or trove where the more antique books could be found, offering insights into a world that no-one have thought off yet. And then I would somehow apply that understanding to achieve a novel or an original idea that answers the big questions in life.

My unrealistic goal in life is divided into two parts - gaining a profound understanding of how the universe works (similar to Hawking), and finding a way to cheat death. I fear death, because the thought of me losing conscious thought after my passing is something I cannot comprehend and wish to avoid. Very stereotypical, I know, but no less true because of it. The general undercurrent of my thoughts is freedom from earthly ties, independence, mystery, originality. I'm certain if the previous themes were combined it would yield greater insights into my character.

I hope the above satisfied your question.

 

I think the 5w4 INTJ tends to most girls wet dream rather than the typical 5w6 INTJ who is really technical.

 

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.

Ni: It seeks to make its own framework out of the present relative to the past and future. The concept of time is imperative to my analysis of life, keeping it in mind is what makes me look at the big picture. Anything of value I might or might not have, whether it'd be an object, or an accomplishment, becomes but a speck of dust once I take time into account, once related to the objective past and future, and suddenly there is so much more that is greater, more meaningful. When looking into the nature of something, I first look at how it has behaved, is currently behaving, and will behave. That which has become consistent over the time is truth. This is why I believe that history serves as the foundation of all knowledge.

Te: Very critical, it seeks to judge and likewise eliminate. It does so by filtering something out, before looking to see whether it has a purpose in the specified goal. It is much more active and ambitious. Say, on the subject of mistakes, Ni will understand and believe them to be reflective of something, information, still, just that we have to know how to use it, Te sees them as a nuisance to building a perfect world, and wants to get rid of it.

Universal truth is much more important because at least I can make something useful and influential out of it. Besides, universal truth encompasses my own truth - I will likely do subpar on the activity of self reflection if I do not seek for external data relative to how the act of it is done and how it behaves.

 

What are your key motivations?

Learn enough of the right things to orient myself in the world and derive a sense of continuity and meaning, apply what I learn in a way that helps other people orient themselves in the world and derive a sense of continuity and meaning. It's a simple answer but the question isn't very specific.

I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why.

Ni isn't always focused for me, exactly. It's often very dreamy and nebulous and strange... but when the stars align my Ni-brain suddenly gets high-def about the subject matter it's faced with, like I've just had my intellectual camera lens adjusted or something. The subject matter is usually determined by some combination of Te (formal data and organizational principles), Fi (what stirs me emotionally or ethically) and Se (informal data AKA my experiential perceptions).

Regarding how Te "fits in" to 5w4, well... like any other INTJ I take pleasure in devising my own organizational systems, but the systems of whatever sort I devise or prefer are often more iconoclastic than that of INTJs of other Enneastripes. I like working with hard data, but want to synthesize it in unique rather than completely conventional ways.

And I don't think that universal truth and personal truth are all that separable. There's the truth about the nature of the world (inasmuch as we have access to that), and there's the truth about the part of the world that is us, and there's a practical truth to be found about our most effective or personally fulfilling potential role within the world. No facet is worth having strictly on its own... perfect anomie is more or less humanly intolerable with or without perfect knowledge (and as a 5w4 I expect I know a little something about feelings of anomie).

@Figure's outsider's perspective insights are well worth listening to. I especially agree that 5w4s tend to be more Ni-heavy than 5w6s overall. Te is an objective function and 5w6 is the more objective of the two wings - 5w4s by virtue of the 4 influence are more idiosyncratic and surreal - Ni is subjective and abstract. Because 4 and 5 are both withdrawn types they're more prone to withdrawal (6s tend to be joiners in their own way, its title often has "loyal" in it for a reason) - Ni is an introverted function and when JCF-normative INTJs tuck into themselves Ni is where they're going to go.

I don't know if it's that 5w4s use Te less or less competently necessarily - I have a very Te-friendly job so it's easy for me to tap - as that having a 5w4's fixations is an invitation for dominant Ni to dive deep and grow such that it's very easy to get lost in. As a kind of world-building function it intersects neatly with the 5w4's tendency to have a somewhat uniquely weird and potentially even dark inner vista.

It is kind of amusing to hear of another INTJ 5w4 that also does wild things like cry in public occasionally. I don't know if the fact that I have is un-Te though. I used to be very good at holding back tears so it isn't lack of control exactly, but I've learned to see them as a bodily function useful for stress relief and like any other bodily function, if I need to do it or would benefit from it, I do it. Maybe my benefiting from it as often as I do is related to some 4-ish internal melodrama, it would make sense, but either way: I don't like doing it publicly but if it's the quickest way to get past something and I happen to be in public when I need to get past it, I'll let it happen without too much of a fight and without caring how it looks to the people around me (if they think I can't tear up and clean up at the same time I'll just show them different). In a sense my refusing to cry was much more emotionally driven than my crying ever has been.

 

Make my inner world, live outside, as in match the outerworld to my inner world, by changing the outerworld.

 

@kaizer

I found this video and thought of you. While it might be too long to check out, thought you might be interested:

 

Thanks for the video, I will look at it as soon as I have some free time.

 

This clip illustrates the (excruciating) heart vs. mind deliberation process:

Kurtz is the only sane man in the film.

 

What are your key motivations? I would also like to know where your Ni is usually focused at and how does Te fits into being a 5w4. Also, if you think that finding your own truth is more important than finding universal truth and if so why. I would appreciate as much information as possible. Thanks in advance.

 

I’m highly attuned with my Ni and Fi. I feel at home with these functions. But all of this seem harnessed by the rationale of Te. If I can’t satisfy my Te, there’s no way I can ever be comfortable with any type of feelings no matter how strong.

I’m also quite apt at reading other people. Not so much by observing (most of the times, I don’t even look at the person, I’m in conversation with) but by their energies in a highly intuitive, woo-woo sort of way - that’s why the mechanics of it as to how it all works, I just can not explain.

I’m motivated by competition. Not with others but with my own limits. One of my beliefs is “if someone else can do it, I can do it even better.”

I don’t hate people but I’m not necessarily excited by their existence either or of my own for that matter. I often hurt people because I can’t seem to turn off my Te and people’s feelings often get in the way. The problem arises when I factor in my profound understanding of feelings and emotions. Being so insecure about my own feelings (as I don’t understand them very well but can definitely experience them vehemently in all of their convoluted ways) I always feel guilty, if I can satisfy my Te with logic and proof that I was in the wrong. It’s like I can literally feel myself in the other person’s shoes so I always apologise and try my best to never go that way again but somehow I always end up there.

I hate interacting with reality. I believe the outter world can not compete with the richness and complexity of my inner sanctum. There feels a whole universe in my head that I try to hide from others that’s why I couldn’t care less about the world that is single layered and full of all sorts of inefficiencies.