[FearsomeCritter]

For the purposes of this post, "They," refers to INTJs i have had personal experience with. NOT INTJs as a whole. Obviously i can't judge the entirety of your type by the few I've met.

Please don't take this as a troll thread. I'm not trying to stir things up. But i'm dead serious when i say this: I do NOT understand, even slightly, why INTJs seem to have a reputation for being completely emotionally detached and purely logical.


My father is an INTJ, and i have met at least a handful in my lifetime that I've had the opportunity to interact with and observe, and i find that i seem to sense more emotion in them than many others i come in contact with. That's not to say that they aren't also logical, or aren't usually incredibly intelligent, but probably the last term i would use to describe any one of them is, "Emotionally detached." In fact, quite the contrary, my father's emotions have been a constant source of friction between us. Especially when he is also using Fi. (people using judging functions tend to assume others are also using that same judging function. When He's using Fi and believes i'm also using Fi when, in fact, i'm using my first function, Ti, it gets pretty nasty.)

He has a tenancy to be easily hurt by the actions, but rarely shows it openly. Being around him my whole life, i'm quite adept in knowing when he's angry, pissed off, or hurt (especially sense anger is usually just a front or a mask to cover up being hurt, with him.) Younger INTJs I've met who seem to have not developed their use of Fi nearly as much seem rather competitive and more prone to irritation than hurt... But one thing i noticed that all of them seem to have in common is a very, very strong desire to belong. They're strange and quirky in their own ways and interests and want to find others who relate to them on their level.

Loneliness... Emotional hurt and pain... Irritation... Competitiveness? None of these things are traits people seem to associate with INTJs but when i really spend any significant time around one and the bullshit persona drops, they are perfectly capable of being all of these things to an extent i have not experienced with many others. There's also the fact that use of Fi implies a moral compass defined only by the individual's values... This is also far from detached even if it can make judgments based on facts.



Would you gentlemen mind helping me to sort this out? This is something I need to understand for both my sanity and my father's. I don't mind a harsh word or response, but let's keep it constructive.

Thank you kindly,

 

[hoom]

In many ways you're correct. Many INTJs do have emotions that come into frequent use. There's a few things going on, I'll speak of two.

One is that we don't always recognize emotional responses within ourselves, or are inexperienced processing them. I've been working on that myself, but I used to be much less aware a year or two ago, and I'd assume that this would be the case for INTJs until they develop sufficiently. These things don't come so naturally to us.

Two, is that I only rarely reveal much of who I am as a person to others, I keep a vigil on what information I release where. The biggest use of this is in recognizing that I don't really want to talk to everyone, just a few people, and giving the rest a bit of a cold shoulder so they don't bother me, just came naturally. That behavior was an inborn tactic for me, if I don't care to converse with someone, I'm not going to seem all that friendly; though I've learned with age to fake it as needed, and friendliness and all that is quite genuine when the right people are about.

 

[marckos]

 

[Cetanu]

For the purposes of this post, "They," refers to INTJs i have had personal experience with. NOT INTJs as a whole. Obviously i can't judge the entirety of your type by the few I've met.

Please don't take this as a troll thread. I'm not trying to stir things up. But i'm dead serious when i say this: I do NOT understand, even slightly, why INTJs seem to have a reputation for being completely emotionally detached and purely logical.


My father is an INTJ, and i have met at least a handful in my lifetime that I've had the opportunity to interact with and observe, and i find that i seem to sense more emotion in them than many others i come in contact with. That's not to say that they aren't also logical, or aren't usually incredibly intelligent, but probably the last term i would use to describe any one of them is, "Emotionally detached." In fact, quite the contrary, my father's emotions have been a constant source of friction between us. Especially when he is also using Fi. (people using judging functions tend to assume others are also using that same judging function. When He's using Fi and believes i'm also using Fi when, in fact, i'm using my first function, Ti, it gets pretty nasty.)

He has a tenancy to be easily hurt by the actions, but rarely shows it openly. Being around him my whole life, i'm quite adept in knowing when he's angry, pissed off, or hurt (especially sense anger is usually just a front or a mask to cover up being hurt, with him.) Younger INTJs I've met who seem to have not developed their use of Fi nearly as much seem rather competitive and more prone to irritation than hurt... But one thing i noticed that all of them seem to have in common is a very, very strong desire to belong. They're strange and quirky in their own ways and interests and want to find others who relate to them on their level.

Loneliness... Emotional hurt and pain... Irritation... Competitiveness? None of these things are traits people seem to associate with INTJs but when i really spend any significant time around one and the bullshit persona drops, they are perfectly capable of being all of these things to an extent i have not experienced with many others. There's also the fact that use of Fi implies a moral compass defined only by the individual's values... This is also far from detached even if it can make judgments based on facts.



Would you gentlemen mind helping me to sort this out? This is something I need to understand for both my sanity and my father's. I don't mind a harsh word or response, but let's keep it constructive.

Thank you kindly,

Do you really think the stereotype came from us?

I have never thought there was anything wrong with me in regard to emotions until people told me "SMILE MORE!" "BE FRIENDLIER!" and I refuse because all I ever heard was "Be fake to people."
For the record I still don't think there's anything wrong with me in regard to my emotions aside from typical problems you find with anyone in society like repressed anger or what have you.

I sometimes develop a tear in my eye when I am touched by the compassion of a concept or vision of something beautiful in a fucking television ad.

Yeah it gets lonely being an INTJ. It's not an easy task sometimes to express one's self in a way that is easily understood and understanding is a dozen times rarer than misunderstanding is common.

What about wanting to help someone because you care about their entire life and they reject you because you come across as critical or something of the sort. The person I am most irritated by in the entire world is my mother. Not because she is irritating but because it is a mission and a half to help her improve herself and take care of herself.

Conclusions that I could come to as an INTJ are that people do not listen, they do not care and they don't have the intelligence to understand but I know these are just immature conclusions with no backing whatsoever apart from my all-glorious point of view, lol.

From my point of view, if you want to see the emotions of an INTJ, stop knowing everything, ask them how it is and just listen.

 

[Enormous Hatred]

One of the more bizarre phenomenon I've noticed is that while people generally equate T with logic and F with emotion, still they subsequently come to the conclusion that the ExTPs and IxTJs are the pricks. Were this the case, wouldn't it be much more consistent to accuse the dominant T types of this? Dominant Ti + inferior Fe = "I'll tell you how it really is and don't much care to sugar coat it just because people may not want to hear it." (I know this wasn't what you were saying, I just didn't have any direct input on the topic.)

 

[Josef]

I can tell you, that if my emotions were a well, you would drop a rock and it will never reach the water.

In order to protect my "core", I don't show emotions to strangers, maybe because I view showing them as a weakness.
As I gathered from my friends here, this is the reason for the appearance of this idea that INTJ's are detached emotionally.

 

[zelder]

I'm not surprised that an ISTP does not think we are emotionless. I agree we are not. I work with an ISTP and he has a reputation for being tactless and brutally honest. The ESFJ and ESTJ here really like to make fun of the ISTP and his tactless brutal honesty. He's really smart too. I'm one of the few people here than is not the least bit bothered by him. I know he is not the least bit bothered by me either. We have good talks from time to time. I think he likes some of my ideas.

Some people are bothered by the straight, emotionless face that I usually hold, some people are not. When I'm talking about something I'm interested in then I get more animated but my face is usually cold and expressionless.

 

[Fallen Nocturne]

I think there's a massive difference between being emotionless and not feeling the need to constantly make others be aware of how we feel. My face moves a lot, but I apparently don't tend to show deep emotions on them. It's almost as if I don't like boring other people with and... similar trivial concepts. Much in the same way I'm not too interested in other peoples emotions, I tend to assume they're not interested in mine.

Though I'm very aware of my own emotions, and I don't like it! When I have tried to talk about that sort of thing, I tend to have trouble explaining, so I resort to what are often cringe-worthy jokes. Yeah, it can be pretty isolating being simply unable to discuss stuff like that. Without going in to detail, it caused me to not tell a guy that I had a massive crush on him for about four months. Four months where he continued to jokingly flirt with me. I'll be honest, it really threw me off balance.

Just to give you an idea of how difficult I find it to talk about my emotions, it took about 20 minutes for me to find the cojones to post that last part.

 

[Siren]

I agree with most if not all of what my fellow INTJs have added. But I also need to say that I am a gooey mess around my friends and family. I allow them to see the full depth of what I feel as I feel it because they make me feel safe. It's why we have a few close friends and not tons of acquaintances. You know you are in my inner circle if you know how I feel at any given moment.

 

[Abraxas]

http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/43173-ask-intj-question-584.html

 

[Darin Hamel]

I agree with most if not all of what my fellow INTJs have added. But I also need to say that I am a gooey mess around my friends and family. I allow them to see the full depth of what I feel as I feel it because they make me feel safe. It's why we have a few close friends and not tons of acquaintances. You know you are in my inner circle if you know how I feel at any given moment.

Yup, me too!

 

[shadowofambivalence]

I'm usually pretty careful with who I show my emotions to and at times I can go on about them as if I were telling some end of the world prophecy. When I get those Ni-Fi loops I can sometimes cause things to go upside down and confuse people because I can become very disorganized and manic/depressive. It sometimes feels like a chore to control my emotions because they can be like drugs in a way because they can sometimes get to a point where my logic is altered. I also have a hard time being honest with people because of paranoia and the fact that my emotional expression has scared and bewildered people which casued me to be misunderstood.

 

[Honestly Lying]

I have never thought there was anything wrong with me in regard to emotions until people told me "SMILE MORE!" "BE FRIENDLIER!" and I refuse because all I ever heard was "Be fake to people."

I frequently have random people shout "SMILE" at me when I am strolling in public. I always thought to myself, am I suppose to be smiling and walking the same time?

I never noticed that I have the same facial expression all the time until my friend pointed that out and told me that she can never sense what mood I am in. I have been told that I am always calm and my voice is monotone. Then again some people think that my demeanor comes off as aloof, serious, intense, mysterious, rude or nonchalant; it depends on the person I am interacting with. My close friends say that they can tell that I am always in my head thinking, instead of being aware of my present surrounding.

Yes, we do appear emotionally detached and purely logical, but we are also capable of having deep emotions. Personally, I do not feel emotions as easily as other types and that is why I cannot express my emotions right away by facial expression, voice, or actions. Although I can state my thoughts or feelings very clearly. I am not comfortable being around high levels of emotions, which makes me not good at handling sensitive situations that requires emotional support. Even though I am aware of the reasons why someone is upset, I tend to keep my composure and reply with logical statements which is not what most Feelers want to hear. I think I can be quite supportive AFTER an emotional situation, since I use my reasoning to help fix the problem. However, I am not good at being supportive DURING an emotional situations, unless that situation will benefit from my calmness, stability, and unbiased opinions. I also find that I need to have time to think deliberately through a situation and have time alone to do that.

I think since you are an ISTP and your father is an INTJ there could definitely be some communication barriers with Fe and Fi functions. I think I have an idea of Fe function, but you can explain it to me in further details or in your own thoughts. It would be helpful for me because I do have an ISTP in my life that I feel like is drifting away. Anyways, in my personal experience of how Fi function works is that it is based on personal values, but most of all right vs. wrong. For every situation that matters to me I tend to battle what is right or wrong in my head. A lot of types do not understand why my "feelings" are solely based on my principles and they do not understand why I cannot just act on what I feel. I guess... it is because I am not sensitive towards emotions during the present moment and I need time alone to think about it. Although very rarely, I can snap at a situation when someone is challenging my values or reasoning towards how I am handling the situation. I think INTJs are quite insightful and aware of what is going on, but they need time to think about it before taking on the appropriate action.

I also think it is because of our main function Ni. The Ni is function purely abstract, idealistic, and able view situations in multiple perspectives. What we consider as "emotions" is not what other types consider as emotions. That's why I stated earlier that we are capable of having deep emotions. What we value in emotions is more idealistic or in other words we are seeking for something meaningful in life. The other extreme would be shallow emotions or in other words just basic drives that makes people to act happy, sad, angry, and etc.

INTJs do appear to be cold and emotionally detached, but we are capable of having intense emotions towards things we find meaningful. Do not be fooled by our poker face, our emotions are just processed and carried out differently from other types. When we find something we are passionate about, we will remain loyal and always try to find growth in it.

Then again, INTJs are cold and emotionally detached, because we only find a few things in life that are consider to be worthwhile. Most things in our life can easily be disregarded or switched off if we no longer see the point.

 

[Emerson]

I think its a negative stereotype that some INTJ's like to proport, I don't know why. I'm quite aware that emotionally I'm a bit off the record. I'd agree with everything you've said in your post. Bravo. @FearsomeCritter.

 

[Killjoy]

For the purposes of this post, "They," refers to INTJs i have had personal experience with. NOT INTJs as a whole. Obviously i can't judge the entirety of your type by the few I've met.

Please don't take this as a troll thread. I'm not trying to stir things up. But i'm dead serious when i say this: I do NOT understand, even slightly, why INTJs seem to have a reputation for being completely emotionally detached and purely logical.


My father is an INTJ, and i have met at least a handful in my lifetime that I've had the opportunity to interact with and observe, and i find that i seem to sense more emotion in them than many others i come in contact with. That's not to say that they aren't also logical, or aren't usually incredibly intelligent, but probably the last term i would use to describe any one of them is, "Emotionally detached." In fact, quite the contrary, my father's emotions have been a constant source of friction between us. Especially when he is also using Fi. (people using judging functions tend to assume others are also using that same judging function. When He's using Fi and believes i'm also using Fi when, in fact, i'm using my first function, Ti, it gets pretty nasty.)

He has a tenancy to be easily hurt by the actions, but rarely shows it openly. Being around him my whole life, i'm quite adept in knowing when he's angry, pissed off, or hurt (especially sense anger is usually just a front or a mask to cover up being hurt, with him.) Younger INTJs I've met who seem to have not developed their use of Fi nearly as much seem rather competitive and more prone to irritation than hurt... But one thing i noticed that all of them seem to have in common is a very, very strong desire to belong. They're strange and quirky in their own ways and interests and want to find others who relate to them on their level.

Loneliness... Emotional hurt and pain... Irritation... Competitiveness? None of these things are traits people seem to associate with INTJs but when i really spend any significant time around one and the bullshit persona drops, they are perfectly capable of being all of these things to an extent i have not experienced with many others. There's also the fact that use of Fi implies a moral compass defined only by the individual's values... This is also far from detached even if it can make judgments based on facts.



Would you gentlemen mind helping me to sort this out? This is something I need to understand for both my sanity and my father's. I don't mind a harsh word or response, but let's keep it constructive.

Thank you kindly,

All I heard while reading this:

 

[FearsomeCritter]

Sorry for the late response. Got home after work yesterday and went strait to bed for the night.

Despite the fact that most of you said something interesting or helpful, I think a lot of people who read my post, maybe misunderstood something.

I have NO problems detecting the existence of emotion in INTJs. I keep hearing about this stereotype online and am confounded by it because it lacks correlation to what I've seen in person.

But specifically to:
@hoom @Cetanu @josef_eden @zelder @Fallen Nocturne @Siren @shadowofambivalence @ChrissyAintEZ and @Emerson

Thank you for your posts. I really enjoyed reading them and found them interesting. ^^

One of the more bizarre phenomenon I've noticed is that while people generally equate T with logic and F with emotion, still they subsequently come to the conclusion that the ExTPs and IxTJs are the pricks. Were this the case, wouldn't it be much more consistent to accuse the dominant T types of this? Dominant Ti + inferior Fe = "I'll tell you how it really is and don't much care to sugar coat it just because people may not want to hear it." (I know this wasn't what you were saying, I just didn't have any direct input on the topic.)

It's because of the word, "feeling." It sounds a lot like, "Feelings." ISTPs are particularly prone to this mistake due to it being our last function and hence, a lot of things that we do very little typically get associated with it.

I think i see that you mentioned you knew i wasn't making this mistake, but for care's sake i'll clarify again. I know that emotion does not equate to Fi, or any function. I do, however, believe that emotion can effect the use of any function, and that it will subsequently be expressed or possibly even felt in various ways depending on which function is being used. I happen to really hate strong emotion mixed with Fi i can not seem to find a way to reason with this combination. Who's to, "blame," for this is really in the eyes of the beholder, but it's also irrelevant when the point is I need to figure out a way to communicate with my father when he's like this.

While i haven't gotten quite that far yet, i have had about a page and a half full of INTJs confirming my beliefs about INTJs which is a definite start.

 

[Olecranon]

I realize that this is an old thread but I wanted to contribute some thoughts here.

In regard to the first post, I think that the level of emotion varies between us. I for example, an not emotional at all. I do have feelings but I've never been anything but level-headed my whole life. This might be due less to the fact that I'm an INTJ and more to the fact that I had a very chaotic childhood which caused me to become numb to outside stimulus over time. Even in the midst of a catastrophe (and I've seen many), I stay calm and rational. I suppose I do have feelings hidden deep within me but certainly no more than anybody else. The difference is that I never lose control of them.

 

[animalcule]

I haven't had the fortune to know many INTJs, but personally I do feel I have less reactive emotion, and far more emotional control, than the vast majority of human beings. I feel calm and reasonably content 99% of the time unless I am going through a personal crisis. 'Bad moods' are a meaningless concept; if I feel bad or emotional, it has a concrete cause, and I feel fine once the situation is resolved.

And I'm quite a warm person (if not the most outgoing), or so I hear, and often become a confidant.

I can't relate to the OP, I'm almost impossible to offend and I almost never have personal conflicts or get 'hurt feelings'. I also never feel lonely, but then, I've always had many fulfilling personal relationships.

Emotional health depends mostly on the individual, I think, and there are emotionally reactive and disturbed people of all types, even NTs. It sounds like your father has rather a lot of problems in this area. I've myself had issues with depression (but it's the kind of undramatic depression where you just feel blah and don't get out of bed or shower much).

 

[PlacentaCake]

I don't get the cold emotionless label either. If anything, I'm just an oddball that some people can understand and some people can't. The people that get me think I'm hilarious and interesting. The people that don't get me think weird things, which sometimes includes "cold" or other similar words, but I've never understood why we are known for that.

 

[Figure]

I, for one, think the idea of "not being aware of my emotions" is not really indicative of INTJ functioning. I cannot think of a time when I didn't know what my emotions towards something were when I needed to. I have been criticized for not showing emotion the way someone was expecting (especially extreme ones like surprise, joy, anger), but that does not mean I wasn't aware of feeling content, or even happy during the occasion. This phenomenon seems to be more of an inferior Fe thing, where the feeling is assumed to match up against externalized notions of the concept but is unable to manifest.

If anything, I become frustrated when I in fact know that I feel very strongly about something, but am pressured to expend such energy in a way that distorts what I know the feeling really is. It generally isn't made to be externalized - it is introverted. In fact, it's very visible in the outputs I produce - which can be bad if I'm pissed at something and put little effort into its completion or quality to demonstrate the intensity of that emotion.

I don't believe that a healthy INTJ wouldn't be at least aware of emotion. Seriously people, stop acting like irrefutable hardasses when you're mistyped, or stereotype-drunk. The more silly "INTJ" on here (not necessarily on this thread) try to present themselves as wooden poles of non-emotion, the more their actual intelligence begins to appear to follow suit. You're not a hardass, you're a dumbass, and the perpetuating stereotypes deserve a one way ticket up Rosie O'Donnell's crumbly asscrack.