[Xzcouter]

Haruhi didn't generally seem to care much about logic whether it is subjective or objective. You'd be surprised at some things Te users might be interested in. Also, the way she organised SOS Brigade shows Te.
Anyway , if you think she uses Fe then tell me where it is.

Ofcourse nobody really cares if someones logic is subjective or objective but rather what comes more natural does. The fact that she sees the universe with espers, aliens and time travellers and truely think its possible is very Ti rather than Te.

You just did tell me how she uses Fe she organises the SOS Brigade Fe is group/people oriented.
anyways here are some more:
Haruhi during the Festival offering Kyon some snacks.
THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE ENDLESS EIGHT why else would she gather everybody everyday? ENxP in general are the most introverted extraverted type but ENTP has that Fe for group work unlike ENFP who has Fi-Te which tends to be a pragmatic function pair.
The disappearance of suzumiya haruhi when kyon was in the hospital and when she wanted to make the party.
THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SERIES she kept focus on the SOS brigade and dragging them around and despite her being tactless we still see her caring at dire situations or when the group is in trouble (in the book when Nagato got sick she took care of her and was worried the whole time. There were many instances where she cared about) this is a big sign of her tert Fe
and if you say that this is Fi. Fe is group. Fi is solo.

Te is more about organization of things/objects

 

[Mair]

Ofcourse nobody really cares if someones logic is subjective or objective but rather what comes more natural does. The fact that she sees the universe with espers, aliens and time travellers and truely think its possible is very Ti rather than Te.

You just did tell me how she uses Fe she organises the SOS Brigade Fe is group/people oriented.
anyways here are some more:
Haruhi during the Festival offering Kyon some snacks.
THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE ENDLESS EIGHT why else would she gather everybody everyday? ENxP in general are the most introverted extraverted type but ENTP has that Fe for group work unlike ENFP who has Fi-Te which tends to be a pragmatic function pair.
The disappearance of suzumiya haruhi when kyon was in the hospital and when she wanted to make the party.
THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SERIES she kept focus on the SOS brigade and dragging them around and despite her being tactless we still see her caring at dire situations or when the group is in trouble (in the book when Nagato got sick she took care of her and was worried the whole time. There were many instances where she cared about) this is a big sign of her tert Fe
and if you say that this is Fi. Fe is group. Fi is solo.

Te is more about organization of things/objects

The fact that she cares about aliens and stuff is just a sign that she is intuitive and the fact that she likes working in a group only shows that she is an extrovert, it's not necessarily Fe.
For example EXTJs are very comfortable working in groups , especially when they're in charge, yet they have inferior Fi.

 

[Xzcouter]

The fact that she cares about aliens and stuff is just a sign that she is intuitive and the fact that she likes working in a group only shows that she is an extrovert, it's not necessarily Fe.
For example EXTJs are very comfortable working in groups , especially when they're in charge, yet they have inferior Fi.

Not really I mean think about INTJ or ENTJ. Te would prevent them to care about them cause its not objective and purely subjective and theoretical.

Yes they may like to work in a group but they wont take actions to make sure that group is held or to make have fun with the group.
I mean throughout the whole endless eight she wanted to hang out with the SOS brigade but the things she did could very well be done alone and still be extraverted.
ExTJs maybe comfortable but if you ask them what they prefer they would most likely say that they would rather do it themselves to ensure it comes out how they like it.
Yes working in a group is not a sign of Fe but the fact she bases her decisions around SOS Brigade is VERY Fe and not Fi nor Te.

 

[Mair]

Not really I mean think about INTJ or ENTJ. Te would prevent them to care about them cause its not objective and purely subjective and theoretical.

Yes they may like to work in a group but they wont take actions to make sure that group is held or to make have fun with the group.
I mean throughout the whole endless eight she wanted to hang out with the SOS brigade but the things she did could very well be done alone and still be extraverted.
ExTJs maybe comfortable but if you ask them what they prefer they would most likely say that they would rather do it themselves to ensure it comes out how they like it.
Yes working in a group is not a sign of Fe but the fact she bases her decisions around SOS Brigade is VERY Fe and not Fi nor Te.

If Te always worked like that then you wouldn't be able to find a superstitious Te user, that is not the case. If we go to the ENFP subforum and ask how many of them are religious or superstitious, I bet that some of them will tell us they are.
Don't forget that Haruhi is a Ne user, she's all about ideas and possibilities, she wouldn't simply reject the possibility that aliens exist.

 

[Xzcouter]

If Te always worked like that then you wouldn't be able to find a superstitious Te user, that is not the case. If we go to the ENFP subforum and ask how many of them are religious or superstitious, I bet that some of them will tell us they are.
Don't forget that Haruhi is a Ne user, she's all about ideas and possibilities, she wouldn't simply reject the possibility that aliens exist.

I am not saying that they cant be superstitious or religious because that can be objective (proofs and observations of course) but rather if they think espers,aliens or time travellers are real without ever experiencing or having any proof aside from the fact you think they are.
Ne user dont reject the fact sure but Fi and Ti would eliminate it thats how it works. It happens to me too I have to take all possibilities into account but it gets eliminated after thinking about it for a few seconds.

 

[Mair]

I am not saying that they cant be superstitious or religious because that can be objective (proofs and observations of course) but rather if they think espers,aliens or time travellers are real without ever experiencing or having any proof aside from the fact you think they are.
Ne user dont reject the fact sure but Fi and Ti would eliminate it thats how it works. It happens to me too I have to take all possibilities into account but it gets eliminated after thinking about it for a few seconds.

I still think she's ENFP , but there 's no reason to argue so much about fictional characters, especially unhealthy ones like Haruhi. I would like to see what others have to say though.

 

[Xzcouter]

I still think she's ENFP , but there 's no reason to argue so much about fictional characters, especially unhealthy ones like Haruhi. I would like to see what others have to say though.

Yeah xD @Arakkun your thoughts?

 

[Resolution]

watching Claymore again. One episode 17

Claire: ISFP 4w5>8w9>6w5 Sx/Sp or Sp/Sx
Rocky: ??F? 6w7>9w1>2w1 Sp/Sx
Teresa: ?NTJ or ISTP 8w7>3w4>5w6 Sp/Sx
Priscilla: ISFJ 6w7>1w9>2w1 So/Sp
Ophelia: ESTP or ENTJ 8w7>3w4>6w7 Sx/So
Miria: ENTJ 1w2>2w1>6w5 So/??
Jean: ISTJ 1w2>6w5>3w4 So/Sx or Sx/So
Ilena: ISTJ 1w9>6w5>2w1 So/Sp



PS: "summons @Btmangan for second opinion"

Claire is most definitely an ISFP.

Fi- Let's start out by crossing Fe off the list for her. Priscilla demonstrates Fe when she begins to recite the many ethical rules that Teresa has broken (Villain, killer, etc). However, when Claire goes after Priscilla she never once puts forward an Fe-based reasoning as to why. She never presents Priscilla as someone who has broken rules or crossed objective lines that mandate her death.

In fact, Claire repeatedly states that she hunts for Priscilla's head because "there is no other path forward" (a fascinating statement in of itself and I will get to it later, but it is intimately interwoven with her type 8 personality). This is most definitely not Fe.

Claire's life is a very raw experience. She navigates it based upon her compulsion to kill Priscilla. Notice that I did not say that she desired to kill Priscilla. It is not a desire. It is most definitely a compulsion.

I see Claymore as a story about a dance between type 6 and type 8. It is a dance that resonates very clearly with me.

When she was a slave of the Yoma, Claire hated her own weakness and understood it intimately. This is exactly why she could not speak. She felt so weak that she felt that her words carried no weight whatsoever as no one had any reason to heed them. She knew the Yoma was powerful and she was weak. And when Teresa demonstrated her power and killed the Yoma, Claire saw that there was a good version of this power. She saw that power was the only way forward. Her only choice was to attach to this power. . . an attachment she sought to seal upon a certain sisterhood of common pain.

Teresa rejects this attachment with extreme violence. Very few viewers understand Teresa's violent response. And almost everyone I know finds her kicking of Claire to be excessive and unexplained within the fabric of the story. However, Teresa's backstory, MBTI, and Enneagram provide a perfect explanation.

Teresa was in desperate need of attachment. Her pain shone clear as day to Claire, who could see the pain all over Teresa's face. Teresa was sold to the organization by her family for a bag of silver. This betrayal created a huge pessimism towards attachment. Combine this with her INTJ MBTI (You know how they view hugs if you remember the hug threads), and her type 8 dominated Enneagram and you have a person who will kick you to death if you even show an attempt to hug them.

Claire sought to earn a place by Teresa's side by showing her power to overcome many tortures. . . a power which Teresa, another 8, acknowledges and respects. Claire seeks the power of Teresa. . . and then when Teresa dies, Claire seeks to vindicate Teresa's power by destroying the weaker entity that took her away, vindicating the good power over the bad one. Claire's childhood experience has caused her to view strength as a moral good, weakness as a moral bad. So destroying Priscilla becomes mandated because Claire, as the carrier of Teresa's legacy, must be the moral good (the stronger) vs. Priscilla. It is a compulsion. . . one that almost gets Claire killed repeatedly in the manga as her desire to kill Priscilla is so overwhelming that she loses her focus.

However, while type 8 plays a huge role in the show, type 6 does as well. As much as Claire loathes her weakness, covets Teresa's power, and attempts to vindicate Teresa's power which she takes into herself, she also instantly recognizes Teresa's loneliness and need for attachment and feels compelled to fulfill it.

Claire's attraction towards Teresa is twofold. She covets Teresa's power as a source of liberation and good, while also desiring the attachment and security that Teresa provides, wishing to provide Teresa with the same.

Claire is definitely Sp/Sx. Her ruthless fighting style is the direct result of her direct understanding of what being less powerful yields, torture and abuse. And she has learned the important lesson that dedication (the type she used to penetrate Teresa's defenses) can be a form of strength and also that a weaker enemy can sometimes kill a stronger opponent if they seize the moment ​the way Priscilla did when she unhanded Teresa.

One of the many lessons of the show is the extreme power of this psychological state when it comes to combat. Claire will never surrender. Surrender = accepting a state of weakness to an enemy, which after her childhood experiences is unacceptable. Claire will never tire. She will fight as hard as she can until she dies as she learned the importance of determination in reaching Teresa's heart. This is demonstrated when she nearly fights herself to death vs. Miria despite it being an entirely nonthreatening fight. And she will always be hyper-alert to any opportunity within battle to destroy a stronger opponent, a lesson she learned from Priscilla herself.

 

[Swordsman of Mana]

@Btmangan
what are your thoughts on the other characters?

 

[Resolution]

@Swordsman of Mana

Teresa is an INTJ, stubbornly and individualistically value-driven and yet semi-retarded about her own emotions.

Priscilla is an ISFJ, one who grew overly attached to the symbolic "goodness" of family structure, supplanted that family structure with the Claymore order (Teresa abandoning the organization was almost an affront to family, which is unforgivable to Priscilla). Priscilla hated herself for killing her father, an unforgivable offense with what she had come to feel as an ISFJ about family. This self loathing is referenced time and again in the manga. Killing Teresa was Priscilla's chance to redeem her enormous sin of killing her father-figure by upholding the importance of family. This explains why she was driven insane when Teresa's punishment was not finalized. Her mutterings of "unforgivable" were spoken both towards Teresa and towards herself, the bad daughter archetype. . . this confusion definitely on display as she begins raving about her father while she pushes herself to all limits attempting desperately to annihilate Teresa. Finalizing Teresa's death sentence was actually psychologically essential to Priscilla not descending into madness.

Edit- Miria is too goddam hard for me to think about right now. She has extremely advanced and pronounced logical and ethical functions. She's essentially a god character. I can come up with an argument later.

 

[Witch of Oreo]

Playing Rewrite now, and wondering about characters' types. I guess it's be more appropriate to post here, since it's basically an interactive anime.
Here are my guesses so far:

Shizuru - INFJ
Akane - INTP
Kotarou - ESXP
Alexei Hexas III aka Yoshino - not so healthy INFP
Kotori - ISFP
Not sure about Chihaya, she barely ever appears. Not even trying.
Lucia - also didn't get a lot of attention, but looks like ESTJ (like a lot of tsunderes)
Sakuya - ISTJ
If anyone played, I'd appreciate your opinion.

 

[MelodyGirl]

That has nothing to do with Fi.
Fi is more about having subjective ethics and doing the thing you think is the 'right' thing to do.
She is definitely an ENTP
And she cant be Ni-Se cause her Ne is just way too obvious I mean from the beginning of the show alone especially the part where she keeps changing her hairstyle and she keeps getting random ideas and just pursues them (reminds me of me when I was in grade 4-7 xD)
She doesnt show Fe cause she uses Ti>Fe but she does at times show it for example when offering Kyon something to eat during the Festival.
ENTP actually have trouble understanding ethics if they dont understand it and they can get highly rebellious asking for meaning. They are unconventional this way and maybe even tactless at times.
Te is also not shown at ALL. Te is about objective facts and if she is an ENTJ she wont just dive into things ESPECIALLY the movie making part where she just made stuff along the way (Ne and NOT Ni nor Se) and she does show Ti. Ti is subjective logic, logic that makes sense only to the person and Haruhi does show this. She is 'god' of the universe and the universe is her logic. You also have to remember the murder mystery in the island she was able to spot out who the murderer was and was the first one who found it out and she used her subjective logic to do this as Ti is good at looking at inconsistencies.

An example of ENFP is somebody like Chitanda from Hyouka her curiousity and constant questioning and her will to do the right thing is Ne-Fi

I agree with everything you said about Haruhi, but, on Chitanda, you're way off. She's ISFJ.

 

[Xzcouter]

That has nothing to do with Fi.
Fi is more about having subjective ethics and doing the thing you think is the 'right' thing to do.
She is definitely an ENTP
And she cant be Ni-Se cause her Ne is just way too obvious I mean from the beginning of the show alone especially the part where she keeps changing her hairstyle and she keeps getting random ideas and just pursues them (reminds me of me when I was in grade 4-7 xD)
She doesnt show Fe cause she uses Ti>Fe but she does at times show it for example when offering Kyon something to eat during the Festival.
ENTP actually have trouble understanding ethics if they dont understand it and they can get highly rebellious asking for meaning. They are unconventional this way and maybe even tactless at times.
Te is also not shown at ALL. Te is about objective facts and if she is an ENTJ she wont just dive into things ESPECIALLY the movie making part where she just made stuff along the way (Ne and NOT Ni nor Se) and she does show Ti. Ti is subjective logic, logic that makes sense only to the person and Haruhi does show this. She is 'god' of the universe and the universe is her logic. You also have to remember the murder mystery in the island she was able to spot out who the murderer was and was the first one who found it out and she used her subjective logic to do this as Ti is good at looking at inconsistencies.

An example of ENFP is somebody like Chitanda from Hyouka her curiousity and constant questioning and her will to do the right thing is Ne-Fi

I agree with everything you said about Haruhi, but, on Chitanda, you're way off. She's ISFJ.

Oh is she hmm possible ... Well i apologize :3
Havent watched it in a while

 

[Tetsuo Shima]

I just made these yesterday.

I had to go through Hell and back just to find a website that would let me share those pictures.

 

[SoulSpark]

Miria is too goddam hard for me to think about right now. She has extremely advanced and pronounced logical and ethical functions. She's essentially a god character. I can come up with an argument later.

Looking forward to hearing about Miria when you get a chance. She ended up being my favourite.

And can I join in? I'm still new to this, but is Irene really ISTJ? I would have thought that she and Galatea were closer to INTJ. They seem very insightful and knowing.

 

[Resolution]

@Xahhakatar



Loved Deadman. Interesting picture.

Looking forward to hearing about Miria when you get a chance. She ended up being my favourite.

And can I join in? I'm still new to this, but is Irene really ISTJ? I would have thought that she and Galatea were closer to INTJ. They seem very insightful and knowing.

People tend to put Irene as an ISTJ because her perception is very "job focused." They are the "duty-fulfillers" and Irene definitely fits that archetype within the manga.

Irene's role is to take down Teresa. She never really seems to question the legitimacy of that role. It is just an expected outcome, and it's her job as a Claymore and as a team leader to see that it is done. To her, Teresa's protection of Claire was a dereliction of duty, a "screwup" that interfered with her ability to do the job. That is Irene's primary focus: "the job". Her miserable failure to execute Teresa and the loss of her team shatters this job, thus shattering her world. So, she must retreat, wounded, into solitude.

Likewise, when she is training Claire, she doesn't really offer any abstract advise or insight. She is blunt in the ISTJ fashion and tells Claire what Claire needs to get the job done. "You need to be faster. You need to eat." All commands to get to the required destination. It's very ISTJ of her.

Galatea hides her personality behind a rather thick veil of sarcasm or wit, so is hard to read. What she does reveal is often hidden behind layers of sarcasm and wit-for-wit's-sake. However, I pin her as an ENTP.

She uses a common ENTP tactic, of using Fe to empathize with someone, then using Ti to critique each and every logical step that person uses in their worldviews. She "gets inside" of someone, and then "critiques each logical component FROM inside." It's very Ti-Fe.

This empathy and ability to understand (even read) the emotions of others is why she cannot stay with the organization, as she empathizes with the rebels and is horrified about the priorities of the organization.

Her Fe is also displayed in how she accepts the role of "mother" to the Orphans of Rabona (this is well beyond the scope of the anime). She embraces the maternal role with a warmth and duty that seems Fe-ish. Whereas you could see an INTJ (Teresa, for example) always seeming the "odd duck" as she is far more concerned with her own wordview and her own emotional reactions to events according to her own worldview, as a maternal nun, Galatea is a natural at seeing herself within the motherly role in the larger group, which indicates Fe.

 

[SoulSpark]

@Btmangan Yeah, the job/duty part of her is impossible to miss. But at the same time I felt she had some degree of intuition. Then again, I guess that could be placed under experience, yokai, or writer's influence.

That was great about Galatea. The Ti-Fe sounds right. What about her introversion/extroversion levels? She's very self-aware in the way she carries herself and in the way she wants to appear. At first it seems like she's joking, but it's a truth that's told in a jokingly manner. And her facial expressions are very low-key, especially her smiles.

Apologies if I'm sounding like a duck trying to ride a bike.

 

[Arakkun]

Yeah xD @Arakkun your thoughts?

The World would be much more fucked up if an ENFP had the power to make what she thought real.
Aliens, Espers and Time Travelers still don't reveal them that much, as Haruhi do still think logically, while it not seems, and avoid to make too many non-logical things happens.
While ti is blocking most of her unlogical desires, the fi wouldn't have blocked those though.

I agree with everything you said about Haruhi, but, on Chitanda, you're way off. She's ISFJ.

sure you aren't talking of Mayaka?
She's the ISFJ, as she's strict, a lot. And care a lot about other peoples and about the objective impact of her and others actions.
At the same time, Chitanda is the ENFP. A curious cute girl who like Houtarou to answer the things her Ne produces and feels uneasy on conflicts or similiar things.

 

[Resolution]

@Btmangan Yeah, the job/duty part of her is impossible to miss. But at the same time I felt she had some degree of intuition. Then again, I guess that could be placed under experience, yokai, or writer's influence.

Well the author definitely weaves plenty of Ni in. I assume from the manga itself that he's an INTJ (They are not fond of ISFJs generally, See: Priscilla).

I started writing up a rebuttal, but only found more evidence for your theory.

The way Irene approaches her battle with Teresa (the entire concept of using Priscilla's Yoki invisibility as a trump card, burdening Teresa with the attacks of the 3, 4, and 5 to create a window for Priscilla to use her full suppression to weasel in a killing blow IS a novel strategy. It doesn't seem like something standard or "tried and true." It's too adaptive.

Her priority-setting is very ISTJ'ish, though her execution is not.

That was great about Galatea. The Ti-Fe sounds right. What about her introversion/extroversion levels? She's very self-aware in the way she carries herself and in the way she wants to appear. At first it seems like she's joking, but it's a truth that's told in a jokingly manner. And her facial expressions are very low-key, especially her smiles.

She talks almost constantly during her fights. I'd wager than an ENTP who had been trained from a young age to be a soldier would also learn to mask themselves to a degree.

Apologies if I'm sounding like a duck trying to ride a bike.

Claymore is an excellent anime. I'm just happy to talk to people who also find value in it.

As a type 1w2, do you agree with Swordsman that that's Miria's Enneagram?

 

[SoulSpark]

As a type 1w2, do you agree with Swordsman that that's Miria's Enneagram?

Yes, I can definitely see her as a 1w2. A mature one, very balanced and strong, with the confidence that she is choosing the best choice that she herself can make.

I felt bad that she decided to hunt down the left over abyssal ones. I had a soft spot for them. But if they're still eating innocents, they don't really have a choice. It's a responsibility only Claymores can take on.