ISTJ and ESFP relationships

SHISHI · Sep 25, 2009

Hey ISTJ guys

I have been dating an ISTJ guy on and off for 2 years. I really like him and I know he really likes me but he just never was able to fully commit to me. He is very attractive to me but he is not the type who want to play around with women (he is rather shy) but I think his main problem is his financial stability issue.

Our communication is not that great. Being a Sensitive extrovert I always want to express my feeling and get feed backs from him. I just don't understand why it is sooooo hard and uncomfortable for him to express how he feels about me.

When I ask him does he really like me. He wouuld say something like if I did not like why would I be with you?

He said sometimes he does not even know himself. When he is stressed he always wanna be alone. And being an ESFP I HATE to be alone.

And also recently he decided to do something I just cannot (or very very hard to) accept. He said he hope I can let him do what he wants this time. We had a big arguement but I know I cannot stop him. So it is really up to me if I can live with it.

I have lots of friends to chill with but nowdays most of them are either married for in a serious relationship. So sometimes I do get lonely and want to hangout with him more often.

I am fairly attractive and outgoing so it has never been a problem meeting guys. But I know my ITSJ truly cares about me and will always been there for me. I do like him alot (maybe I love him) and I don't want to break his heart.

I really wanna ask all you ISTJ guys how you guys approach relationships?

Thanks!!!

SHISHI

fagballsmcready · Sep 26, 2009

i remember w while ago i went out with this girl who was an extrovert. i've not got my PH.d. inMyers Briggs personality tests, so icant tell you what kind she was. but she was always asking me what i was thinking, what was wrong (when nothing was wrong) and so on. when i was studying or reading she would sit next to me and get pissed that i wasnt talking to her. during lunch (did i mention we were in highschool? thats kinda important) i would sit on the bench, but her friends would sit away from her and pressure her to sit with them, then this other girl would come sit with me and talk to me. i seriously think her friends had alot to do with us breaking up. and with my other relationships. because in highschool i hunted exclusivley in that social circle. anyway, the thing with an ISTJ is to let him do his own thing, and whatever it is he's thinking of doing, you cant stand in his way if he thinks its the right thing to do. when he's stressed then you'd better leave him alone, as i dont evne like people talking to me when im normal. remember that ISTJ's are not good at expresing themselves, so trust he still feels like you told him last time. thats all i got.

SHISHI · Sep 26, 2009

fagballsmcready said:
i remember w while ago i went out with this girl who was an extrovert. i've not got my PH.d. inMyers Briggs personality tests, so icant tell you what kind she was. but she was always asking me what i was thinking, what was wrong (when nothing was wrong) and so on. when i was studying or reading she would sit next to me and get pissed that i wasnt talking to her. during lunch (did i mention we were in highschool? thats kinda important) i would sit on the bench, but her friends would sit away from her and pressure her to sit with them, then this other girl would come sit with me and talk to me. i seriously think her friends had alot to do with us breaking up. and with my other relationships. because in highschool i hunted exclusivley in that social circle. anyway, the thing with an ISTJ is to let him do his own thing, and whatever it is he's thinking of doing, you cant stand in his way if he thinks its the right thing to do. when he's stressed then you'd better leave him alone, as i dont evne like people talking to me when im normal. remember that ISTJ's are not good at expresing themselves, so trust he still feels like you told him last time. thats all i got.

Thx a lot for your reply fagballsmready (wow can I get a short form of your name? )

Before I started to read all these personality stuff I was very very puzzled by his behaviour as it was totally foreign to me.

I could not understand how can a guy likes a girl alot yet donnot pay enough attention or being able to meet her emotional needs.

But I think now I understand that I just have very strong emotional needs that is not natural for him to provide.

There are many things I admire and respect about him. He is very reliable, hardworking, emotionally stable, and honest to a fault. I think many many women would find him physcially attactive and i get a little worried.

However I know I get worried because I am weak to temptations. If a hot and outgoing guy approaches me it does tickle me a little. But I wont act on it because I know it is not easy to find a guy as real as my ISTJ.

We are both in our late 20's and he is definitely more experienced in life (I would not say in relationships) than I am. He thinks I am spoiled and sometimes act sillly. I am for sure more spoiled since I am the only child and I think I act silly to make people laugh (so typical ESFP behaviour).

I know I should leave him alone to do his own thing... It is just this particular decision bothers me alot... and he knows it hurts me. He did promise he wont do it for long term though.

I would like to hear more from you ISTJ. I think you guys really have those qualities I need to work on.

I appreciate your opinion

uberrogo · Sep 26, 2009

What is his decision that he is making?

SHISHI · Sep 26, 2009

Hmmmm it is something very private and out of his character... if he ever come to this forum and sees it I think he will ignore me for the rest of my life lol (okay maybe not but I don't want to risk it).

Lets put it this way. I would say 95 % of the female population will be repealled by the idea their men is doing something like this... for money or for curiousity.

If you guess something please keep it yourself. I will not say it out loud.

But he said he will stop soon... I know the more I force his the more stubborn he becomes... is that correct?

Briggs · Sep 26, 2009

I know many ISTJ's that have ESFJ and ESFP relationships....the usually arent very happy...though I have seen them stay together for a long time some of those couples. I think ESFX's need a lot of attention and emotional connection and ISTJ's arent built to give it in the manner that they need it. My personal opinion is that this is one of those relationships that somehow tolerate each other for the stability but not for the quality of the relationship.
They seem to have a powerful first draw to one another though....and a tough time leaving out of a duty on both sides.

SHISHI · Sep 26, 2009

MyLittleBlackHeart said:
I know many ISTJ's that have ESFJ and ESFP relationships....the usually arent very happy...though I have seen them stay together for a long time some of those couples. I think ESFX's need a lot of attention and emotional connection and ISTJ's arent built to give it in the manner that they need it. My personal opinion is that this is one of those relationships that somehow tolerate each other for the stability but not for the quality of the relationship.
They seem to have a powerful first draw to one another though....and a tough time leaving out of a duty on both sides.

Thank you for your insightful reply

You know what you just said is exactly what I think when thing are not going well between us

I think to myself... I know he really likes and cares about me but is this how I want the rest of my life to be?

I have left him 2 times in the past 2 years. I have dated other guys. But for some reason I always compare them

I really don't want to walk away anymore from him just because I get frustrated easily... I know I have probably hurt him a lot in the past eventhough he won't tell me.

I know I have not been the girl who was able to make him feel secure all the time. I AM very iindecisive and I have very low tolerance for anxiety (just like they describe an ESFP). I have always done that in the past... whenever a relationship goes sore, I just ended it, so I did not have to deal with hurtful feelings. Believe me, I am a usually happy girl but when I am sad... it is INTENSE!!!

Well I am mainly here to learn more from all you ISTJ guy so maybe I can better understand him and at least make the relationship a little better.

We DO have a great time filled with laughter a lot of times when we are together. Usually we just stay in his house and watch TV and still have a silly and good time

I suppose there are people from all over the world on this site? It will be cool if I can ever meet some of you guys

I guess that is a ESFP thing? I like to talk in person lol

defragmybrain · Feb 10, 2010

Issues with ISTJ Boyfriend (An ESFP/ISTJ match)

ISTJs..

What are your thoughts on ESFP's as romantic partners? If you've never had one, what would your perceptions/doubts/worries of that type of person be?

Why ask?

I've been dating an ISTJ for over year now. Having read your forums for the last hour, i can see that he's no exception: dutiful, meticulous about his efforts, peeved by people being late & bad grammar, drives super safe on the road, NOT a fan of spontaniety. (these examples kept coming up in the posts)
He's also not very verbal about his affections for me, which i can handle, but would love to hear from him. Actions speak loud, but sometimes words speak louder. As S's, both ISTJ and ESFP love to live by "mean what you say". But how do i get him to start talking?

Also, I've had issues with many of his behaviors - but somehow we're still together. He practically lives in a bubble ! doesn't want to leave his town, doesn't want to travel much, secure and safe in his little world, doesnt try new food, etc. He's the all american boy who likes it how he's had it for years.

I'm an eccentric, loud, Russian born ball of chaos. I like variety. I eat something new every day. I redecorate my bedroom every six months. I like to travel. I speak four languages. etc etc etc. I want him to try new foods or go to a new restaurant.. etc, he refuses and cringes. So while i see the value in his rigid ways, (safety, security, familiarity, tradition).. I also see value in what I prefer. How do i find a common ground with him? He's more or less uncompromising. We're extreme J and P opposites.

ALSO:
Sometimes when something peeves me about him, I dont tell him because i don't want to appear as 'the whiney girlfriend'. Later when i feel i can talk about it and approach him with the issue, I no longer have concrete examples because I try to intentionally forget our bad times. So when i say "I hate when you're like this". He says "Oh yeah? When was I like that last?". In turn all i've got is "I don't know on the top of my head right now but that's just how i FEEL". This kills him - he cannot work with my concerns if he doesn't have concrete examples, and thus my concerns are still there and ignored.
How do i fix this??

Bluetrane · Feb 15, 2010

While I'm an ISTJ, I'm not heavily one sided (I'm something like 80%I, and 65%STJ, or thereabouts), so take this with a grain of salt...I'm a scientist by education and profession, but I am also a musician, and a total romantic at heart...it sounds like your guy is more texbook ISTJ.

It's kind of a long story of how I am now involved with my current interest (who I believe is an ESFP). I can say one thing for sure, there is an almost unnaturally huge attraction between an ISTJ and an ESFP, at least in my case.

While I might have acted similarly to your boyfriend years ago, I have learned to appreciate the differences in our personalities. I look forward to the strengths of one overcoming the weaknesses of the other (it works both ways). In fact, I get more attracted and closer to her because of the differences, more and more each day.

Maybe I'm not a typical ISTJ, but I have learned that the heart (and feelings) can be just as valid as logical reasoning...I try to apply whichever is best for each situation that I encounter in my life.

I'd say for one, if you want it to work out between both of you, he needs to be made aware of his own personality traits (as an ISTJ), if he isn't already. An ISTJ should be readily interested in this kind of self analysis...once he is aware of his own traits, and accepts that there are other equally valid personality types, I would hope he learns to appreciate the differences you bring to the table...and that many of them are positive, even if they conflict with his own traits.

I see where you don't want to seem like a nag, but whatever is bugging either of you about the other, needs to come out...holding back will only cause tension and resentment. Burying your feelings will eventually become disastrous if it goes on too long. Keep a note pad handy and try to write down the things that bother you as soon they happen and as analytically as possible, so you can be clear as to what is bothering you about him.

So, if he just doesn't want the excitement, or want to try new things, or doesn't want to get out of his comfort zone...it's probably not going to work out. If he does learn to lighten up and begins to enjoy the new experiences that you can provide, then you have a chance.

Mercer · Feb 16, 2010

defragmybrain said:
ISTJs..

What are your thoughts on ESFP's as romantic partners? If you've never had one, what would your perceptions/doubts/worries of that type of person be?

Why ask?

I've been dating an ISTJ for over year now. Having read your forums for the last hour, i can see that he's no exception: dutiful, meticulous about his efforts, peeved by people being late & bad grammar, drives super safe on the road, NOT a fan of spontaniety. (these examples kept coming up in the posts)
He's also not very verbal about his affections for me, which i can handle, but would love to hear from him. Actions speak loud, but sometimes words speak louder. As S's, both ISTJ and ESFP love to live by "mean what you say". But how do i get him to start talking?

Also, I've had issues with many of his behaviors - but somehow we're still together. He practically lives in a bubble ! doesn't want to leave his town, doesn't want to travel much, secure and safe in his little world, doesnt try new food, etc. He's the all american boy who likes it how he's had it for years.

I'm an eccentric, loud, Russian born ball of chaos. I like variety. I eat something new every day. I redecorate my bedroom every six months. I like to travel. I speak four languages. etc etc etc. I want him to try new foods or go to a new restaurant.. etc, he refuses and cringes. So while i see the value in his rigid ways, (safety, security, familiarity, tradition).. I also see value in what I prefer. How do i find a common ground with him? He's more or less uncompromising. We're extreme J and P opposites.

ALSO:
Sometimes when something peeves me about him, I dont tell him because i don't want to appear as 'the whiney girlfriend'. Later when i feel i can talk about it and approach him with the issue, I no longer have concrete examples because I try to intentionally forget our bad times. So when i say "I hate when you're like this". He says "Oh yeah? When was I like that last?". In turn all i've got is "I don't know on the top of my head right now but that's just how i FEEL". This kills him - he cannot work with my concerns if he doesn't have concrete examples, and thus my concerns are still there and ignored.
How do i fix this??

would you prefer it if he submited o you every time and changed his behaviour to accomidate you?

Briggs · Feb 16, 2010

I am not sure what it is...but there are a lot of ESFx and ISTJ types that have an initial attraction. If you look through here however, you will see the issues you are surfacing are the same over and over with others.

There must be something 'shiney' in the beginning...that brings them together....though long term it seems to boil down to this:

ESFx feels neglected and emotionally hungry (actually F's a lot of time are say this regarding T's)

ISTJ is withdrawn and seemingly over stimulated

Just a pattern I notice...........

anon · Feb 17, 2010

Why don't you tell him that you're not able to voice out your concerns on the moment is the reason why you can't state the specifics... and maybe this is the problem - between then and the moment you tell him your concerns, you're going through the mental process of burying it somewhat.

I'm sure he will try and resolve it with you. I have an ISTJ friend and although it's difficult sometimes and I can't get through her at all (is how I feel), we can resolve something (once she's calmed down telling me every right thing :laughing

I guess you have to sometimes speak in his language to get the message through, just the way he has to meet some of your more personal needs. But obviously don't completely adapt to all of his ways. The relationship needs to work beyond just stability and security that you provide for each other.

maneater · Feb 20, 2010

ALSO:
Sometimes when something peeves me about him, I dont tell him because i don't want to appear as 'the whiney girlfriend'. Later when i feel i can talk about it and approach him with the issue, I no longer have concrete examples because I try to intentionally forget our bad times. So when i say "I hate when you're like this". He says "Oh yeah? When was I like that last?". In turn all i've got is "I don't know on the top of my head right now but that's just how i FEEL". This kills him - he cannot work with my concerns if he doesn't have concrete examples, and thus my concerns are still there and ignored.
How do i fix this??

I get this all the time with my ISTJ. It's highly annoying and I can never remember exactly what he said because I never address him as soon as it happens. I try to tell myself that I need to stop reacting negatively to his actions and try to look at it in every perspective so that I can appreciate it instead. After that doesn't work I try to explain to him what he said that turned my mood into poop. Then he says "You can't tell me exactly how I acted so I don't know what it is that I'm doing." In this type of situation I have the hardest time trying to communicating with him... eventually I say something like " I feel terrible that I react this way to you" and then he no longer feels persecuted for his actions and it's my problem not his. This makes him feel more comfortable and wants to take the blame for it now that I'm not giving it. We eventually reach a compromise where he wants me to give him a signal or say right away that he's bothering me when it's happening and I don't hold it in and wait for bed time to bring it up when I can't stand it anymore. I really don't like to show him that he's doing anything that bothers me so all I can stand to do is make a face (that's my signal) and he understands but we still have problems with it sometimes.

dasch · Feb 20, 2010

defragmybrain said:
ALSO:
Sometimes when something peeves me about him, I dont tell him because i don't want to appear as 'the whiney girlfriend'. Later when i feel i can talk about it and approach him with the issue, I no longer have concrete examples because I try to intentionally forget our bad times. So when i say "I hate when you're like this". He says "Oh yeah? When was I like that last?". In turn all i've got is "I don't know on the top of my head right now but that's just how i FEEL". This kills him - he cannot work with my concerns if he doesn't have concrete examples, and thus my concerns are still there and ignored.
How do i fix this??

I can relate a lot to this. I have a friend and whenever we have some sort of a disagreement or an argument and he tells me that I do something that he doesn't like. But what I don't get is what was it? I need an actual example or a proof to back that up. I've never thought about how he felt but more of, how can we actually fix this? if we fix it, provide me an actual example or a proof so I would know what is bothering you. I think it'd be best if you confront him about this while you still remember it and confront it while what you have to mention is relevant to the topic. It's what I do. I don't know if that was a good advice or not but what concerns me most is getting it done and over with and have the problem solved and have it pushed aside.

ravenheir · Feb 21, 2010

ISTJ girl - ESFP guy

Do you think it'll work? Kiersey says the best match for an ISTJ is an ESFP. Anyone had experience or known any such pairings?

What about when the istj is a girl and the esfp is a guy? Do u think it'll work in the long term even through marriage?:laughing:

defragmybrain · Feb 21, 2010

i'm an ESFP girl dating an ISTJ guy for a year now. i dont know how different it is with the gender difference, but we're doing quite well.
http://personalitycafe.com/istj-for...com/istj-forum-duty-fulfillers/13516-issues-istj-boyfriend-esfp-istj-match.html see this for more issues you might have

MissxRae · Mar 23, 2010

Why did a ISTJ guy break my ESFP heart?

This is not a bashing thread on all of the ISTJ guys here, but it's more about getting answers from all of you since I'm sure you guys will associate with what I will type in here...

So some of you may have seen me post in here numerous times because of a certain ISTJ I know. My ex and I were on-and-off with each other for about 2.5 years. Throughout this whole time, I've been trying to figure out, understand and cater to his COMPLEX personality. It was one hell of a rollercoaster; many ups and downs throughout the whole relationship.

Recently I assumed that my ex contacted me because he missed me and he had some kind of residual feelings for me. At the beginning I was a bit cautious because he tends to have a manipulating personality. During the time he started speaking to me again, he kept sending me random drunk texts while I was seeing another guy during that time. He just kept doing it. Once I stopped seeing the other guy, I started to talk to my ex again...BIG MISTAKE. I should have known that I would fall into the trap again! Unfortunately I still loved him deep down inside despite what we went through.

Being an ESFP, I'm very understanding and love to analyze personalities. I love people basically. Because his personality is so complex, it tends to draw me in more. But after a while, I'm starting to realize that it's not healthy to go through this cycle over and over again. It seems like he never knows what he wants and he has the hardest time expressing how he really feels inside. At times he contradicts himself, making everything even more confusing.

I just wanna give up on him because he only tries very hard to talk to me when I ignore him, yet when I do give him the attention, he pushes me away. Is this a "game" that ISTJ guys play or something? Do you guys get some kind of "rush" from this? I feel like everytime I show I have feelings for him still, he "looks down on me" for it. It's like he's trying to test me to see if I fall for his bait or not. Well sorry, I'm an ESFP girl with a HEART and I have strong EMOTIONS too. I feel like I keep getting manipulated over and over again. It's not fair anymore!

What also stumps me is that he talks to ALL of his exes still. At first it bothered me a little bit because when we were friends in the past, he admitted to me he missed all his exes. Honestly I kept assuming he had residual feelings for one of them...or even both...who knows. I put my foot down about him talking to his exes especially when I found out he sent a Christmas gift to one of them behind my back while we were bf/gf. I was really pissed off by this and argued about it with him. He became defensive and made it look like it was my fault for overreacting.

This is also what I'm wondering: do you ISTJ guys have that need to talk to your exes? Because with him, it seems like if he's not friends with any of us, he'll desperately try to get our attention. Unfortunately, I'm the ONLY one that was willing to get back with him while the other girls remained close friends with him. Because of this, he takes advantage of my nice and generous personality. It's like he KNOWS he's got me in the palm of his hand again.

He also has a difficult time expressing his feelings. Actually I don't know if his heart exists anymore :\ ...I dunno how you ISTJ guys can have such a difficult time expressing your feelings! I hope you guys realize one day that you'll lose the love of your life if you keep everything inside, deny your feelings or see your feelings as "weakness" !!

Recently I asked him what we were because we've been acting like bf/gf for the last 4-5 months and I assumed we were working things out again. Everything was great with us...up until his REAL answer. He told me that he considers us just really good friends. He encourages me to see other guys because he's not satisfied with his position in life right now in regards to his job and finances, and he simply doesn't know what he wants when it comes to girls. All he knows is he's not ready for a relationship and he would only settle with hook-ups for now. He also added that he has thought about having a future with me like getting married and having kids with me, yet he said he doesn't see himself as the marrying type. I was shocked, sad and angry hearing all of this! I just don't understand his thought process anymore!!!

He has a sweet side where he would take care of me ("actions speaks louder than words"), look out for me, provide for me when I don't even ask him too...but I dread when his "dark side" comes out! It has become intolerable now!!

Please ISTJ guys or anyone that's been in a situation like this, I would greatly appreciate your input! Thank you very much!!

sarcastic stoic geek · Mar 24, 2010

MissxRae said:
This is also what I'm wondering: do you ISTJ guys have that need to talk to your exes? Because with him, it seems like if he's not friends with any of us, he'll desperately try to get our attention. Unfortunately, I'm the ONLY one that was willing to get back with him while the other girls remained close friends with him. Because of this, he takes advantage of my nice and generous personality. It's like he KNOWS he's got me in the palm of his hand again.

I don't think this is so much of an ISTJ guy trait as it is an insensitive guy trait. I've never done that simply because I would never want that done to me. I don't want to be compared to other guys, because I am not those other guys. I am only me and no one else. I don't want to be in competition with someone's past. I just want to be accepted for me: the good, the bad, and sometimes the ugly. And that's the way I would treat her.

MissxRae said:
He also has a difficult time expressing his feelings. Actually I don't know if his heart exists anymore :\ ...I dunno how you ISTJ guys can have such a difficult time expressing your feelings! I hope you guys realize one day that you'll lose the love of your life if you keep everything inside, deny your feelings or see your feelings as "weakness" !!

Part of the trouble we have expressing emotions is simply because we don't know what we feel or why we feel that way. There are times when I get depressed for some unknown reason, and sometimes it takes a lot of time to figure out what triggered it. Sometimes I don't figure it out. And I don't want to talk about it until I'm ready to talk about it. And generally I'm ready to talk about it after I've had the time to think it thoroughly through.

Sunrain · Mar 26, 2010

I've been there.. as you'll see if you read my "Is this the curse of the ENFP and ISTJ thread'.

I think the thing is that ISTJs have a hard time figuring out how they feel themselves, let alone figuring out the complexities of other people's feelings. If they care they'll do what they can to make you feel better, but they probably won't anticipate your reactions before you've had them. He'll think "Oh I'll send her a text" but he won't probably think through the emotional complexities that it might bring up in you. If he's saying to you that he cares about you but doesn't know what he wants then that's the truth, so take that as best you can. Don't wait for things too much, if he wants you back it'll be his thing to sort out, and you can just care about him in the meantime in whatever capacity you're able, without hurting yourself, and just do your own thing. Make sure to live for YOU and see what happens. It'll all end well

From a forever optimistic ENFP

anon · Mar 31, 2010

It sounds like your ISTJ did/does care about you, in regards to the whole "actions speak louder than words" thing going on. That is how ISTJs express their care, they can in words too but you have to really encourage them to speak their mind as such -- note: encourage, not try to convince. They have to be convinced by themselves, in my experience.

Now since this ISTJ did a lot for you -- provided for you even when you didn't ask him to do it, and the fact that you haven't provided all sides of the situation having occured with him, maybe he was so loyal to you that he felt he was betraying you in some regard, perhaps by not living up to his own standards of what is expected in a relationship, and just needs time alone to figure it out? The other angle is that maybe he isn't seeing the potential for a relationship with you, not yet anyway; simple as that. Perhaps you weren't exactly what he expected in a relationship BUT it was revealed to him that how much he didn't know of what he wanted and is merely confused. It is all a matter of time with ISTJs. Let him learn.

If you need answers from him, I'm afraid you will have to remain patient and at least encourage it out of him; otherwise, the "loyal" friend that he is, he will not cut you off if you don't contact him too much... he will get back to know where you stand with him. Catch him on that moment and have a long discussion. If this doesn't happen, I wish you the best in what you decide to do. If you manage to tell him your side of the story - how it has effected you and hurt your feelings, and he listens -- he will surely be open to it. You have to get him to acknowledge it somehow - maybe using a different method to one which is trying to convince him.

ISTJ and ESFP relationships

SHISHI

fagballsmcready

SHISHI

uberrogo

SHISHI

Briggs

SHISHI

defragmybrain

Bluetrane

Mercer

Briggs

anon

maneater

dasch

ravenheir

defragmybrain

MissxRae

sarcastic stoic geek

Sunrain

anon

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