PoLR Descriptions

Word Dispenser · Feb 23, 2015

Silveresque said:
People can always be summoned. I'm sure there are enough people on the forum. The only types that would really be absent are ESE and LSE.

Introverted functions can be detected in writing. As an example of Ti, the other day someone responded to one of my posts and seemed to be picking apart the wording and thinking about etymology and definitions. I felt that he was not talking about the meaning I intended to convey, but about his own subjective reaction to my words. That's introversion devaluing the object.

As long as people voice their thought processes and not just the finished product, introverted functions can be just as visible as extraverted ones.

I think Ti and Fi might come out in ethical debates, but it's not always easy to tell. In this thread though, people could ask questions to test someone's understanding of a particular function, and ability to use it. And these questions could come from people who actually have that as their base function, which potentially gives an advantage over questionnaires.

Well, who are we to judge whether an individual is a strong example of a certain type? Still-- Even by interaction between two people of unknown types, there are certain distinct correlations that can be made. It's simply about analyzing and making distinctions.

All in all, I think that interaction is the best way to confirm or disprove a person's cognition. Whether it starts with quadra relations, or cognitive functions are just two different parts of the same whole.

Recede · Feb 23, 2015

@Word Dispenser I can't view your post because the page is glitched.

EDIT: Looks like posting this fixed it. Yay.

Recede · Feb 23, 2015

Word Dispenser said:
Well, who are we to judge whether an individual is a strong example of a certain type?

True. But even so, I believe all information (including people's opinions, whether right or wrong) can lead to valuable insight. With uncensored expression of information, the truth will eventually be revealed.

EDIT: Oops, misread that as "whether an individual is strong in a certain function"...:frustrating:

If someone is mistyped, I think that may eventually become apparent through interaction.

Word Dispenser · Feb 23, 2015

Silveresque said:
If someone is mistyped, I think that may eventually become apparent through interaction.

Ideally, yes.

Entropic · Feb 25, 2015

@Twrankt Though you should wear the ILI hat; it certainly fits you better than the other ones. As for the Fe PoLR ones, I found it accurate. I wonder how many times I've raged on this forum alone for refusing to conform to social expectations lol... Idk if that's sad or good or whatever. I really don't rage that much about it IRL but then again, IRL doesn't quite allow you to err, rage, about it in the first place. Publicly, at least. I'll rage internally though, and if people pressure me I may go "no u" on them and just leave.

Sixty Nein · Feb 25, 2015

Entropic said:
@Twrankt Though you should wear the ILI hat; it certainly fits you better than the other ones. As for the Fe PoLR ones, I found it accurate. I wonder how many times I've raged on this forum alone for refusing to conform to social expectations lol... Idk if that's sad or good or whatever. I really don't rage that much about it IRL but then again, IRL doesn't quite allow you to err, rage, about it in the first place. Publicly, at least. I'll rage internally though, and if people pressure me I may go "no u" on them and just leave.

Well I wasn't really saying that I wasn't an ILI (it is a placeholder until I can get it solidified as my type. As if I'll ever come to a conclusion lel.) I just don't really relate to Fe-polr as being that particularly anti-social way. For me it is more like that I find a lot of social rituals to be utterly pointless. An example of this would be when my brother and sister pressure me into waiting for my parents to get their food ready, whenever I just want to eat. I mean they said it's fine for me to eat, and they rule over the house. So why shouldn't I do it?

Reading over this again, it's not that I get really "triggered" what it describes Ti as, but rather that I don't really give no damns to explain a conclusion to someone whenever I've had the instinct that it is correct to me. Something is either right, or it is wrong. Explaining it is kind of a pain in the ass, and I don't really bother that much to really give any cohesive explanation as to WHY I think something is like that.

I mean I could, it's something that I'm pretty good at. But I would rather not explain something in the first place, and have everyone else know it already.

westlose · Feb 26, 2015

Te PoLR... I've noticed that I've trouble explaining things with concrete facts and evidence. I often present my analysis and studies with a very theoretical and abstract approach. For me, the concept makes sense, even if I don't demonstrate it with empirical data.

I often feel frustrated when people expect that I show them concrete examples and facts, and they often do because I use a lot of metaphors when talking.
It's like I have a reverse way of thinking, and people have a total opposite way of thinking. They are talking about the appearent face of the moon, and I'm talking about the hidden face of the moon. It's frustrating to translate my thinking in "business mode", I find it exhausting and not fun at all.

Here's the wikisocion definition :

According to this, the most annoying things are details of the process. It is true that I hate loosing time with details of a problem that I could solve intuitively. But it's needed for complex problems... I don't know if it is suggestive Se or PoLR Te, but I have a hard time knowing how to achieve my dream. For example, I have a project that I want to do. I'm very determined, and I have a lot of willpower. But I actually have a hard time knowing the steps that will allow me to reach this goal. I don't know if my expectations are too high or something like that. I've to deal with a lot of details, and I have a hard time doing it.

Entropic · Feb 27, 2015

westlose said:
According to this, the most annoying things are details of the process. It is true that I hate loosing time with details of a problem that I could solve intuitively. But it's needed for complex problems... I don't know if it is suggestive Se or PoLR Te, but I have a hard time knowing how to achieve my dream. For example, I have a project that I want to do. I'm very determined, and I have a lot of willpower. But I actually have a hard time knowing the steps that will allow me to reach this goal. I don't know if my expectations are too high or something like that. I've to deal with a lot of details, and I have a hard time doing it.

I would say dealing with "steps" is related to Te (one could also argue that doing things in "steps" is related to the process dichotomy). For comparison as an ILI, I have no problem setting out the steps I need to take, but my problem often becomes that all these steps become a part of a big and grand vision that I have for the future but I never actually bother taking action to actualize these steps even though I know perfectly well how it would likely turn out, would I of course, just go and do it.

I wonder how many plausible business opportunities and whatnot I have never pursued because even though I am very certain at the time of conception that my plan is lucrative enough, I never bother pursuing these plans so they turn into fruition.

Recede · Feb 27, 2015

I actually think Te may be the closest fit for my PoLR, but that would make me SEI or IEI, neither of which is a very good fit overall.

Se is kind of...I don't know. I just lack awareness of that area, especially when it comes to my appearance and how I'm physically coming across. Like when one time I was told my jeans were baggy and that I should get some tighter fitting ones if I wanted to get a boyfriend. That totally baffled me because 1) I'd been wearing those jeans for years and never knew they were baggy, 2) I didn't know it was a problem for jeans to be a bit baggy, and 3) I didn't think people even noticed small physical details like that. It was something completely new to me that was obvious to others but that I'd been completely blind to.

Then there was this thread recently where people were describing how they would solve a murder case. One person said she would interrogate suspects and observe their facial expressions and body language. Here was my comment on that:

Silveresque said:
Your method would have me worried if I were a suspect, because I think I could be wrongly thought to be lying. I find I have little control over my expressions and people misread them all the time. It's totally unpredictable and unreliable.

Which I think could be a manifestation of Se PoLR because it's like a complete blindspot to how I physically present myself. I have no control over it, it may be totally random and people could read anything into it.

Though I don't seem to be bothered by the power/control aspects of Se. I don't try to control or influence others, but I don't mind this behavior in others. I don't think I'd mind applying pressure on someone either. This aspect of Se is something I actually find interesting. (My signature sounds pretty Se PoLR but what I identify with is accepting people as they are without judgment, not so much not controlling them to which I'm more neutral.)

To_august · Feb 27, 2015

Entropic said:
I would say dealing with "steps" is related to Te (one could also argue that doing things in "steps" is related to the process dichotomy). For comparison as an ILI, I have no problem setting out the steps I need to take, but my problem often becomes that all these steps become a part of a big and grand vision that I have for the future but I never actually bother taking action to actualize these steps even though I know perfectly well how it would likely turn out, would I of course, just go and do it.

Doing things in steps is usually associated with the result dichotomy.
The main difference I deduced from this dichotomy insofar is that process types tend to value process and breaking it up into parts is seen as a disruption of the process flow. While result types tend to not value process and for this reason prone to multitasking and switching between parts of different processes and breaking them up.
For the same reason process types tend to make things from start till finish, as this doesn't disrupt the process flow and result types act the other way around.

Tbh I didn't get my head around this dichotomy yet. I feel like I'm both with preponderance of process, because being distracted from the process irritates the hell out of me.

-----
I've been browsing LSE description on wikisocion and LSE's Ni PoLR caught my attention. Particularly the parts bolded:

LSEs tend to have an unchanging habit of either being chronically late or chronically early. They rarely know or think about how long things will take, and their estimates are often way off. They are often surprised by the amount of time that has passed between events, and wonder where the time has gone. LSEs tend to want everything done as well as possible and to the highest possible quality, often failing to consider the amount of time necessary to do the job in such a way.

I mean, how one of the most efficiency oriented types in socion (Te base obviously) can be efficient with being so poor with time? Not being able to estimate how long certain task will take, being eather early or late permanently and so on. How does it work? Business world is all about strict deadlines, time management and so on with time being one of the most crucial and valuable resource. How LSE manages this with Ni PoLR is a mystery.
Not only this implication seems foreign to me, but also I don't think it is accurate for LSEs IRL.

Entropic · Feb 27, 2015

To_august said:
Doing things in steps is usually associated with the result dichotomy.
The main difference I deduced from this dichotomy insofar is that process types tend to value process and breaking it up into parts is seen as a disruption of the process flow. While result types tend to not value process and for this reason prone to multitasking and switching between parts of different processes and breaking them up.
For the same reason process types tend to make things from start till finish, as this doesn't disrupt the process flow and result types act the other way around.

Tbh I didn't get my head around this dichotomy yet. I feel like I'm both with preponderance of process, because being distracted from the process irritates the hell out of me.

-----
I've been browsing LSE description on wikisocion and LSE's Ni PoLR caught my attention. Particularly the parts bolded:

I mean, how one of the most efficiency oriented types in socion (Te base obviously) can be efficient with being so poor with time? Not being able to estimate how long certain task will take, being eather early or late permanently and so on. How does it work? Business world is all about strict deadlines, time management and so on with time being one of the most crucial and valuable resource. How LSE manages this with Ni PoLR is a mystery.
Not only this implication seems foreign to me, but also I don't think it is accurate for LSEs IRL.

Agreed, and I think that the type descriptions stress too much on being late or on time or being ahead of time as an example of strong/weak Ni. I'm very confident about being Ni base, but it doesn't mean I can't be late and if anything, I am often late because I end up doing things I feel I need to finish and it drags out on time, even though I know I don't have time for it (process). So while I can be aware of the flow in a sense, how much time something is taking, it doesn't mean I necessarily am good at being on time. I don't think being late or not is relevant to Ni in itself.

With that said, having observed both my SLE stepmom and ESE grandmother, they often rather be way ahead of time as a way to avoid being late, so I wouldn't say it's entirely inaccurate in that regard. By way ahead I mean something like, they ordered a taxi and decide to go outside and wait for it 30 min before it arrives and they get very anxious if I do not follow this procedure, because I think it's wasting time to go out 30 min ahead in time to wait for a taxi and do zip. I don't think that's effecient time management.

To_august · Feb 27, 2015

Entropic said:
Agreed, and I think that the type descriptions stress too much on being late or on time or being ahead of time as an example of strong/weak Ni. I'm very confident about being Ni base, but it doesn't mean I can't be late and if anything, I am often late because I end up doing things I feel I need to finish and it drags out on time, even though I know I don't have time for it (process). So while I can be aware of the flow in a sense, how much time something is taking, it doesn't mean I necessarily am good at being on time. I don't think being late or not is relevant to Ni in itself.

With that said, having observed both my SLE stepmom and ESE grandmother, they often rather be way ahead of time as a way to avoid being late, so I wouldn't say it's entirely inaccurate in that regard. By way ahead I mean something like, they ordered a taxi and decide to go outside and wait for it 30 min before it arrives and they get very anxious if I do not follow this procedure, because I think it's wasting time to go out 30 min ahead in time to wait for a taxi and do zip. I don't think that's effecient time management.

That rings a bell. My grandma, whom I suspect to be ESTJ, always needs to be prepared and ready ahead of time before any trips or outings or anything in general. I wonder if she's ever been late at something.
She used to hurry us all the time to pack things, to get dressed, with a later result being us sitting idly doing nothing and waiting for the planned meeting or something to happen at last. It gets even worse if she knows that there's someone out there waiting for her to arrive. As if she's afraid to somehow let that person down or insult by not arriving on time. "Punctuality is the politeness of kings" is on of her favorite proverbs. Lol.
So I guess they could solve the Ni PoLR situation by Te dictating them efficiency bent and in order to achieve it, on no account they can afford themselves being late. As a result, they end up being ahead.

But I agree, focus on time is kind of exaggerated. Like, I don't feel that my time management is poor or something, despite unvalued Ni. Time management is one of the most important things that I'm doing daily and an integral part of my current job.
Before OCD started to mess with my brain I've been like a walking clock, always knew what time was, with a minute precision. That's been an advantageous skill. Sigh.

Entropic · Feb 27, 2015

To_august said:
That rings a bell. My grandma, whom I suspect to be ESTJ, always needs to be prepared and ready ahead of time before any trips or outings or anything in general. I wonder if she's ever been late at something.
She used to hurry us all the time to pack things, to get dressed, with a later result being us sitting idly doing nothing and waiting for the planned meeting or something to happen at last. It gets even worse if she knows that there's someone out there waiting for her to arrive. As if she's afraid to somehow let that person down or insult by not arriving on time. "Punctuality is the politeness of kings" is on of her favorite proverbs. Lol.
So I guess they could solve the Ni PoLR situation by Te dictating them efficiency bent and in order to achieve it, on no account they can afford themselves being late. As a result, they end up being ahead.

But I agree, focus on time is kind of exaggerated. Like, I don't feel that my time management is poor or something, despite unvalued Ni. Time management is one of the most important things that I'm doing daily and an integral part of my current job.
Before OCD started to mess with my brain I've been like a walking clock, always knew what time was, with a minute precision. That's been an advantageous skill. Sigh.

That definitely sounds like stepmom. I wouldn't say that she hurries, but she's very to me, anyway, detail-oriented in how she plans it out and she always aims to be ahead of time and the more the better. By detail-oriented I mean that she's very focused on the micro things like you say, packing etc. One of her credos was to pack, would they travel somewhere, way ahead in time. Not just the day before, but days and weeks before, depending on where they are going.

Monkey King · Feb 27, 2015

IEE and SEE (Ti PoLR) feel very uncomfortable in a situation that forces them to admit:
- That they do not understand something;
- That their words do not match with the facts;
- That they are incapable of explaining something clearly;
- That there are inconsistencies in their worldviews, theories, concepts;
- That they are not able to consolidate data in order to bring it to a common structure;
- That they have nothing to say on the subject matter in question.

LIE and EIE (Si PoLR) feel very uncomfortable in a situation that forces them:
- To feel physical discomfort, especially when they are sick;
- To admit that they look unhealthy, caught a cold, etc .;
- To describe their sensations from eating, to appreciate taste, smell etc.;
- To be soft, gentle and affectionate.

LSI and ESI (Ne PoLR) experience severe discomfort in a situation that forces them:
- To be in a completely unexpected and unpredictable situations;
- To draw conclusions about the possible outcome of the event, without the prior knowledge and experience with similar situations;
- To summarize previous experience and create something entirely new on its basis;
- To adopt unconventional and multivariate, open-ended decision

I relate strongly with Ne and Ti PoLR as it is most relevant to my immediate job environment. Si PoLR is interesting though because I feel myself denying the fact that all things listed under that bug me. I have chronic health issues I wish didn't exist with me and have mitigated this hindrance by going into research regarding this illness while at the same time ignoring some of my symptoms when they arise. lmao, I am very inconsistent when it comes to health related issues regarding myself. I joke around sometimes saying that I'll be an advocated for a certain health care program but at the same time go against everything I advocate patients to do..... ..... ....... I can't explain it.

Further, I just have no idea why I need to explain my feelings for a certain cusine. I know some foodie people and they're hilarious: "How's your food, is it good?" Me: "It tastes exactly how I expect it to taste like..." Them: " what notes do you taste in it?" Me: "..."
Personally, I think it's tacky if I do it, though I appreciate it when someone can show such passion on things that I wouldn't normally think twice about.

tangosthenes · Feb 27, 2015

This is obviously an extremely helpful resource and should be stickied.

cyamitide · Mar 1, 2015

To_august said:
SEI and IEI (Te PoLR) feel very uncomfortable in a situation that forces them to admit:
- They do not know how to optimize, calculate efficiency.

This one I don't agree with. IEIs are constantly optimizing efficiency WITH RESPECT TO TIME. It may not seem like efficiency from point of view of a Si types. From IEI's Ni point of view both Si-Te and Si-Fe engage in a lot of meaningless activities and extra actions that if they dropped them it could same them a lot of time / they would be more time efficient.

To_august said:
LIE and EIE (Si PoLR) feel very uncomfortable in a situation that forces them:
- To feel physical discomfort, especially when they are sick;
- To admit that they look unhealthy, caught a cold, etc .;
- To describe their sensations from eating, to appreciate taste, smell etc.;
- To be soft, gentle and affectionate.

A common Si related complaint I've heard from both LIEs and EIEs is that they hate being told to go slow, to relax, to keep still or to to slow down and learn to enjoy life a little. They also dislike it when things are going slowly, when someone else slows them down, or if they have to work with slow, relaxed people (those people being of strong Si types).

To_august · Mar 1, 2015

cyamitide said:
A common Si related complaint I've heard from both LIEs and EIEs is that they hate being told to go slow, to relax, to keep still or to to slow down and learn to enjoy life a little. They also dislike it when things are going slowly, when someone else slows them down, or if they have to work with slow, relaxed people (those people being of strong Si types).

Tbh Si PoLR description seems kind of strange to me, cause I can relate to it as well.

- To feel physical discomfort, especially when they are sick - Yes I greatly dislike physical discomfort, and being ill in general. The necessity to focus on body throws me off balance.- To admit that they look unhealthy, caught a cold, etc . - Yep-yep. This is what I mostly do when I get sick - try and conceal that I caught a cold and make a pretence that I don't have a high fever. I don't fancy when people around start to take extra care of my health at all.
It maybe something to do with Ennea 1 though, as admitting that you're sick is like admitting to somebody that you're an imperfect human as well.
- To describe their sensations from eating, to appreciate taste, smell etc. - Yes! Never could describe my sensations from taste. My mom likes to play this guess-what-is-it-made-from game with food.
Mom *watching me while I drink juice*: So, what do you think was it made from?
Me: Mmm...*take another sip trying to concentrate on the taste*
Mom: So...?
Me: Erm... Apples?
Mom: That's right. Apples aaand...? What else?
Me: Oranges?
Mom Nope.
Me: Mmm... *thinking again what does it taste like* Pineapple?
Mom Nooo. Don't you feel the taste?
Me: Ur... It's... sourish... I guess. Bananas perhaps? No? I give up.
Mom: It's mango!
- To be soft, gentle and affectionate. - That's true. I'm anything but soft, gentle and affectionate. Love of hugs and kisses is apparently missing from my DNA. Lol.

Serpent · Mar 1, 2015

Perhaps the best example of my Fe PoLR is my attitude towards etiquette.
For example, I don't usually receive phone calls because I prefer texting or talking in person. One of my classmates called me for the first time and I knew the purpose of his call was to tell me about some project or assignment. I replied, "Okay, what happened?" and my classmate sounded astonished, telling me that he expected me to greet him back or whatever. Another good example would be my awkwardness when it comes to greeting people because of my tendency to move past the how-are-yous and handshakes and get to business. This is why I'm terrible at socializing, I don't understand how I can just go to a stranger or even a friend and start talking without any purpose. Imagine a scenario where a guy goes to a girl in a bar and says, "Hello, I find you attractive. Do you want to copulate?".

I still don't understand why the woman would reject him. He made a perfectly reasonable argument. Why deny the end product?

Word Dispenser · Mar 1, 2015

Rex Magnus said:
I still don't understand why the woman would reject him. He made a perfectly reasonable argument. Why deny the end product?

Sadly, in reality, I don't think a woman would reject him, in this day and age.

Everything seems to be about sex. Particularly for ladies who hang around in bars.

It's ridiculous and destructive.

People put sex on a pedestal, like it's 'the thing' to achieve, and they make fun of and ostracize people who are looking for a lasting partnership without the emphasis on those aspects, because those aspects really should come last.

In every sitcom, they always portray one 'weird' guy or girl who is sexually abstinent. Sometimes they even make it their only character trait, so that the other characters in the show can say, "You really need to get laid." When the 'weird' guy or girl actually makes an insightful, intelligent observation.

FlaviaGemina · Mar 1, 2015

@To_august

I'm Fe PoLR and I have the opposite problem when it comes to getting to know 'useful' people: I'm good at getting to know useful people and could easily manipulate some of them for my personal benefit, but I shy away from it. Even if they wouldn't notice or even expect people to act that way, I just can't do it.

'Useful' people like me (although I'm not charming at all) and some of them would gladly do me favours. The problem is that some people who are officially 'useful', e.g. because they have a high rank, are otherwise useless because they are rubbish leaders etc. I don't accept favours from such people, because my moral standards are too high.

I do accept favours from 'useful' people whom I deem to have moral integrity. But if I think someone has moral integrity, that means I like them. And if I like them, I cannot objectify them, even if they expect to be objectified. So for me the problem isn't getting favours out of 'useful' people. I don't even actively 'network', 'useful' people offer to do things for me without me making much of an effort to groom them. What I fail at is making long-term friends with such 'useful' people beyond the situation that brought us together, because their and my understanding of friendship just doesn't translate at all.

PoLR Descriptions

How do you relate to PoLR descriptions?

Description of my PoLR fits me almost perfectly. I strongly relate to it!

I relate to two PoLRs, which are descriptions of my weakest 1D functions (PoLR and Suggestive).

I can see myself in two different PoLR descriptions (other than your PoLR and Suggestive)

I relate to more than two PoLR descriptions.

I don't see myself in any of the PoLR descriptions. Nothing fits me at all.

Word Dispenser

Recede

Recede

Word Dispenser

Entropic

Sixty Nein

westlose

Entropic

Recede

To_august

Entropic

To_august

Entropic

Monkey King

tangosthenes

cyamitide

To_august

Serpent

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FlaviaGemina

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