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not all ESTJs are super outgoing. many are more data driven, overachiever, less people oriented, more get-things-done-now oriented
I honestly doubt that many ESTJs are people-oriented at all. They're Te-doms. Their extroversion is directed at objects, not humans.
 
ESTJs (Like Hermione) are often "outgoing" in the sense that they feel the need to impose their judgments on others. Look at the whole business with SPEW, where Hermione browbeats other Gryffindors to purchase her badges. Or when she forgets to use the time turner and misses a class and has to find out directly from Prof. Flitwick if she's missed anything. Or when as Prefect she's the one always yelling at the younger kids while Ron stands back. It's all object oriented, but involves ordering people as a facet of the exterior world.
 
Hermione is NO WAY INFJ. She is NOTHING like INFJ. I can't stress this enough.
She is such a sensor it hurts. Sensing inteligence is completely different from intuitive intelligence. She doesn't discuss abstract concepts, she is all in for facts and information, word by word of books she reads, practical application and recalling of events and experiences. She is also traditional and rule-bound.
By the way, she is a pretty obvious xSTJ. She seems to be introverted but she also likes to impose her views on others, so that part is a little trickier.
So, as it's almost a consensus she is xSTJ, how about we figure out next if she is introverted or extroverted? How about arguments and examples for either option?
 
Slightly on-topic question: how logical is it for one to refer to their own relation to a character to determine said character's type? This has been bothering me. I can't decide if it's a valid point to make in an argument.
 
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Slightly on-topic question: how logical is it for one to refer to their own relation to a character to determine said character's type? This has been bothering me. I can't decide if it's a valid point to make in an argument.
I strongly hold that it is not.

1. Your type may be wrong.You may think you are an INFJ, but are really an ISFJ, and then all that you typed based on that inaccurate thought are corrupted.
2. Gender, age, socioeconomic factors, country of origin, and other factors can change how you experience your type.
3. Enneagram is a factor in how behavior and origins of behavior can be shaped.
 
Hermione is NO WAY INFJ. She is NOTHING like INFJ. I can't stress this enough.
She is such a sensor it hurts. Sensing inteligence is completely different from intuitive intelligence. She doesn't discuss abstract concepts, she is all in for facts and information, word by word of books she reads, practical application and recalling of events and experiences. She is also traditional and rule-bound.
By the way, she is a pretty obvious xSTJ. She seems to be introverted but she also likes to impose her views on others, so that part is a little trickier.
So, as it's almost a consensus she is xSTJ, how about we figure out next if she is introverted or extroverted? How about arguments and examples for either option?
I think the best way to determine I vs E is to look at what function is inferior. So is it Ne or Fi?
 
I think the best way to determine I vs E is to look at what function is inferior. So is it Ne or Fi?
The whole SPEW thing seems like inferior or underdeveloped Fi to me.

Hermione is a caricature of what I was like as a teen. Te-dom adolescence is ... special.
 
I strongly hold that it is not.

1. Your type may be wrong.You may think you are an INFJ, but are really an ISFJ, and then all that you typed based on that inaccurate thought are corrupted.
2. Gender, age, socioeconomic factors, country of origin, and other factors can change how you experience your type.
3. Enneagram is a factor in how behavior and origins of behavior can be shaped.
Enneagram and MBTI aren't absolute, though. They're both separate theories and the human personality cannot be defined with just those two things, nor can either of those things be 100% accurate.

The one thing I thought of that could really render an argument based on relation useless is that you can easily relate to types that are not your own.
 
The whole SPEW thing seems like inferior or underdeveloped Fi to me.

Hermione is a caricature of what I was like as a teen. Te-dom adolescence is ... special.
I think Fi is inferior as well. She expected others to all feel the same ways she did about it-it was important to her, so it should be important to them.
Also, she has a bit of a tendency to pout and become childish when upset-all indicative of inferior Fi.

I don't see inferior Ne. She's pretty open to new ideas and ways of doing things, and she is not inherently cautious, as a Ne inferior often is.
 
Enneagram and MBTI aren't absolute, though. They're both separate theories and the human personality cannot be defined with just those two things, nor can either of those things be 100% accurate.
Well of course not. Nothing is really absolute.
But your point didn't really refute mine, in that you still shouldn't type others based on your own type.
 
Well of course not. Nothing is really absolute.
But your point didn't really refute mine, in that you still shouldn't type others based on your own type.
I added to my post. Also, I think your point makes sense but Enneagram in particular shouldn't be singled out. I think what you're trying to say is that parts of the personality other than what MBTI measures can make you relate to a character.
 
I added to my post. Also, I think your point makes sense but Enneagram in particular shouldn't be singled out. I think what you're trying to say is that parts of the personality other than what MBTI measures can make you relate to a character.
Well Enneagram was kind of an aside point, the bigger points I was making was that people can experience the same type differently and that you may not be correct in your typing of yourself.

Actually, your point could be added to mine. xD
 
I feel like she may be an ISTJ. I think ESTJ is a valid shot too, because it is hard to determine where she gets her energy from. To be honest, she seems pretty ambiverted to me. She usually derives her information from concrete facts, is quite practical and efficient, and doesn't stray from the rules unless if it's absolutely necessary. However, I think that since her Si and Te are so strong, her Ne and Fi functions aren't exactly at their best. This is probably why it's so hard to pin Hermione down into one type.
So yeah, I'm going to settle with ISTJ, but she seems to fluctuate to ESTJ also, since her Te is so well-developed like her Si.
 
Ok, I've been swearing up and down she is ISTJ with highly developed Fi in the books as opposed to maybe ESTJ in the movies... I'll copy a post I made at another site to show my thinking...

I think she's ISTJ in the books, (though probably a little more outgoing than the typical ISTJ) but ESTJ in the movies, helped along by Emma Watson supposedly being ESTJ. I guess I see her passion for elf-rights, among other things, as pointing to higher-up than inferior Fi. She's really clear on what she values ("There are more important things-friendship and bravery") and she is continuing to shape her values as she grows older to be more nuanced, she saw that Winky was treated as a non-person by the wizarding community, she wants to do some good in the world and that's really important for her career choice. Inferior Fi I think is usually more general in what they value (Truth! Justice! Doing What's Right!) and doesn't want to spend as much time dwelling on it. I see inferior Ne more likely, she's a genius at remembering stuff from books she's read, yet can seem suspicious about unconventional methods, she didn't like the Half-Blood Prince's notes because that wouldn't be following the instructions, she often freaks out about all the ways things can go wrong, the usual way of inferior Ne, for example if the plan isn't followed, or if she fails her exams or if they're caught and expelled, etc. I thought she was much more decisive and assertive in the movies.

but now I have this crazy idea that maybe she is INFP in the grip. She seems to grow somewhat out of being bossy as the books go on, even in the first book she bent rules for Harry and Ron (Somebody's Fi value system might put friendship before rules) Is she Te as a method of coping with various stresses such as being a Muggle-born witch and looked down on, insecurity, maybe difficulties with her family? She gets easily offended when things go against her morals. INFP would still give her tertiary Si, so all the obvious genius uses she makes of Si could be a lower function? Tertiary Si types INFP and INTP often are pretty routine oriented. (One of the reasons they mistype as J's) When is she more herself and happier, more balanced? When she's living up to her beliefs (Fi) and using Ne to keep herself open to new perspectives? For example when she first starts S.P.E.W. in Book 4 it may resemble an Fi-Si loop, she gets caught up in her values and how a movement to make things better 'should' go, perhaps based on movements she's read about in the past (Si). But in books 5-7 she meets Kreacher and while still caring passionately about helping the elves she takes more time to understand their perspective and consider different sides of the situation.

J.K. Rowling said Hermione was somewhat based on herself as a kid, and yes that does not necessarily mean they are the same type as different types could exhibit the same behavior for different reasons, but think about it. If J.K. Rowling, who I am pretty confident is INFP, (INFP-INFJ is a very common mistype) could have acted, according to her, even more bossy than Hermione at age 11, consider that its not impossible an INFP would be like Hermione.

Feel free to throw tomatoes at this, but what do you think? Is this an insane idea generated by sleep deprivation or could there be something to it?:unsure:
 
Ok, I've been swearing up and down she is ISTJ with highly developed Fi in the books as opposed to maybe ESTJ in the movies... I'll copy a post I made at another site to show my thinking...

I think she's ISTJ in the books, (though probably a little more outgoing than the typical ISTJ) but ESTJ in the movies, helped along by Emma Watson supposedly being ESTJ. I guess I see her passion for elf-rights, among other things, as pointing to higher-up than inferior Fi. She's really clear on what she values ("There are more important things-friendship and bravery") and she is continuing to shape her values as she grows older to be more nuanced, she saw that Winky was treated as a non-person by the wizarding community, she wants to do some good in the world and that's really important for her career choice. Inferior Fi I think is usually more general in what they value (Truth! Justice! Doing What's Right!) and doesn't want to spend as much time dwelling on it. I see inferior Ne more likely, she's a genius at remembering stuff from books she's read, yet can seem suspicious about unconventional methods, she didn't like the Half-Blood Prince's notes because that wouldn't be following the instructions, she often freaks out about all the ways things can go wrong, the usual way of inferior Ne, for example if the plan isn't followed, or if she fails her exams or if they're caught and expelled, etc. I thought she was much more decisive and assertive in the movies.

but now I have this crazy idea that maybe she is INFP in the grip. She seems to grow somewhat out of being bossy as the books go on, even in the first book she bent rules for Harry and Ron (Somebody's Fi value system might put friendship before rules) Is she Te as a method of coping with various stresses such as being a Muggle-born witch and looked down on, insecurity, maybe difficulties with her family? She gets easily offended when things go against her morals. INFP would still give her tertiary Si, so all the obvious genius uses she makes of Si could be a lower function? Tertiary Si types INFP and INTP often are pretty routine oriented. (One of the reasons they mistype as J's) When is she more herself and happier, more balanced? When she's living up to her beliefs (Fi) and using Ne to keep herself open to new perspectives? For example when she first starts S.P.E.W. in Book 4 it may resemble an Fi-Si loop, she gets caught up in her values and how a movement to make things better 'should' go, perhaps based on movements she's read about in the past (Si). But in books 5-7 she meets Kreacher and while still caring passionately about helping the elves she takes more time to understand their perspective and consider different sides of the situation.

J.K. Rowling said Hermione was somewhat based on herself as a kid, and yes that does not necessarily mean they are the same type as different types could exhibit the same behavior for different reasons, but think about it. If J.K. Rowling, who I am pretty confident is INFP, (INFP-INFJ is a very common mistype) could have acted, according to her, even more bossy than Hermione at age 11, consider that its not impossible an INFP would be like Hermione.

Feel free to throw tomatoes at this, but what do you think? Is this an insane idea generated by sleep deprivation or could there be something to it?:unsure:
I thought at first Hermione being INFP is ridiculous but considering that she grew up with muggles, being that she was very much precocious, and having received her letter from Hogwarts saying that she's a witch, she could have been very hyper and ultra-curious in that world that she came across as STJ.

INFPs are often very much experts on things they are passionate about. Let's picture an average INFP who is passionate about making websites or some-such....now in Hermione's case, she could very well be passionate about the wizarding world in general...that's why in that world she came across as hyper and SJ, being fussy and all that. Makes sense? She also champions her causes with such fervor(Fi)? It is an interesting perspective.
 
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