Let's Analyze Taylor Swift...

mistakenforstranger · Dec 15, 2012

I'm now thinking ISFJ or INFJ. She doesn't seem extraverted to me, and in the earlier post above, I argued for her NF-ness, but I have a hard time seeing Ni at all in her lyrics. When Ni expresses something it is more often than not very vague. Ni likes to set up things so there are multiple interpretations built into the lyrics. It could mean anything, and no matter how hard you try, you never can fully grasp it. Ni-doms like it that way. It keeps their art "alive" in a sense. Lyrics from Ni-doms are always pointing to something beyond (and sometimes beyond the beyond...Huh?!) what they're actually saying. I don't get that sense with Taylor. She's very clear in her songwriting. It's always about relationships, love, heartbreak, ad nauseam, and you can work out an interpretation pretty easily; it only means that one thing that she's trying to convey. She says she wants her fans to connect to the lyrics (Fe), which would put a limit on what and how she expresses herself. Even so, I would think INFJs would want to muddy the waters a little bit for their listeners. And she's always referring to experiences and relationships from the past. Lots of past tense in her lyrics. I just saw her new video for Trouble, and in the opening monologue, she talks about a "kaleidoscope of memories" (Si). The only thing that seems Ni in her is exploring the dichotomy between her fantasies (Ni) and the harsh reality (Se), like in the song, White Horse, and even that seems like I'm stretching things a bit. If Taylor is an INFJ, then her N isn't that prominent (F all the way), or she's really an ISFJ. E-type has to be taken into account, too.

@fourtines, I'm a closet Taylor Swift fan too, but her recent album is overproduced trash!

Ryosuke93 · Dec 16, 2012

Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street
Faster than the wind
Passionate as sin, ended so suddenly
Loving him is like trying to change your mind
Once you’re already flying through the free fall
Like the colors in autumn
So bright just before they lose it all

Losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
But loving him was red
Loving him was red

Touching him is like realizing all you ever wanted was right there in front of you
Memorizing him was as easy as knowing all the words to your old favorite song
Fighting with him was like trying to solve a crossword and realizing there’s no right answer
Regretting him was like wishing you never found out love could be that strong

Losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
But loving him was red
Oh red burning red

Remembering him comes in flashbacks and echoes
Tell myself it’s time now, gotta let go
But moving on from him is impossible
When I still see it all in my head

Burning red!
Darling it was red!

Oh, losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
Cause loving him was red yeah yeah red
We're burning red

And that's why he's spinning round in my head
Comes back to me burning red
Yeah yeah

Cause love was like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street

-This song seems a little bit more Ni maybe. There is more metaphors and similes. And she doesn't have any Si or detail-oriented lyrics like she usually does. It's interesting too that this song is what she chose to be her new album title. Maybe she connects with it more because it is a little bit more intuitive? I am starting to see INFJ more and more, but I think her Fe is strong and to re-iterate what I thought before, maybe she is a type 2 which further strengthens her Fe.

velvetoveralls · Dec 16, 2012

mistakenforstranger said:
@fourtines, I'm a closet Taylor Swift fan too, but her recent album is overproduced trash!

I agree! It's kind of pathetic how much these newer songs pale in comparison to the ones she wrote as a child and teenager. I know it's not that she's not writing good songs -- it's just that she's not putting them on her album anymore because she's so much more afraid of being intimate about her life now. That's why she co-wrote so much for this album. Shame. Looks like she's sold out for now.

velvetoveralls · Dec 16, 2012

treeghost said:
But her sense of humor does seem INFJ-like to me (from what I've known about other INFJs and myself). It was just one thing out of others that I chose to mention to support my thought her on MBTI type. Hm. I guess her I felt her humor had hints of Ni because she doesn't say thing that are blatantly obvious, and it's not even that it comes off funny, it's just that it's clever (not saying other types can't be clever x_x).

I read your comment after reading a recent interview of hers and felt like posting something she said in it, lol...
“Rigatoni makes me feel weird. It’s like a wheel, and what’s it trying to do? It’s like an unfinished ravioli.”

JonathanG · Dec 16, 2012

IluvHSJ said:
Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street
Faster than the wind
Passionate as sin, ended so suddenly
Loving him is like trying to change your mind
Once you’re already flying through the free fall
Like the colors in autumn
So bright just before they lose it all

Losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
But loving him was red
Loving him was red

Touching him is like realizing all you ever wanted was right there in front of you
Memorizing him was as easy as knowing all the words to your old favorite song
Fighting with him was like trying to solve a crossword and realizing there’s no right answer
Regretting him was like wishing you never found out love could be that strong

Losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
But loving him was red
Oh red burning red

Remembering him comes in flashbacks and echoes
Tell myself it’s time now, gotta let go
But moving on from him is impossible
When I still see it all in my head

Burning red!
Darling it was red!

Oh, losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
Cause loving him was red yeah yeah red
We're burning red

And that's why he's spinning round in my head
Comes back to me burning red
Yeah yeah

Cause love was like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street

-This song seems a little bit more Ni maybe. There is more metaphors and similes. And she doesn't have any Si or detail-oriented lyrics like she usually does. It's interesting too that this song is what she chose to be her new album title. Maybe she connects with it more because it is a little bit more intuitive? I am starting to see INFJ more and more, but I think her Fe is strong and to re-iterate what I thought before, maybe she is a type 2 which further strengthens her Fe.

I doubt she has much of a choice about what her album title is. People need to remember that she, like most other pop stars, are manufactured and the album title is all part of an elaborate marketing strategy. They don't want to connect with the album title, they want to sell them.

mistakenforstranger · Dec 16, 2012

IluvHSJ said:
Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street
Faster than the wind
Passionate as sin, ended so suddenly
Loving him is like trying to change your mind
Once you’re already flying through the free fall
Like the colors in autumn
So bright just before they lose it all

Losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
But loving him was red
Loving him was red

Touching him is like realizing all you ever wanted was right there in front of you
Memorizing him was as easy as knowing all the words to your old favorite song
Fighting with him was like trying to solve a crossword and realizing there’s no right answer
Regretting him was like wishing you never found out love could be that strong

Losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
But loving him was red
Oh red burning red

Remembering him comes in flashbacks and echoes
Tell myself it’s time now, gotta let go
But moving on from him is impossible
When I still see it all in my head

Burning red!
Darling it was red!

Oh, losing him was blue like I’d never known
Missing him was dark grey all alone
Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you've never met
Cause loving him was red yeah yeah red
We're burning red

And that's why he's spinning round in my head
Comes back to me burning red
Yeah yeah

Cause love was like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street

-This song seems a little bit more Ni maybe. There is more metaphors and similes. And she doesn't have any Si or detail-oriented lyrics like she usually does. It's interesting too that this song is what she chose to be her new album title. Maybe she connects with it more because it is a little bit more intuitive? I am starting to see INFJ more and more, but I think her Fe is strong and to re-iterate what I thought before, maybe she is a type 2 which further strengthens her Fe.

I suppose so, but it's not what I would see as Ni-songwriting. They are intentionally vague at times. I can work out what she's saying in this song. I just wouldn't think Ni-doms would make comparisons so explicit like that throughout the whole structure of the song, but I guess even Morrissey (INFJ) sings "Everyday is like Sunday." She could be INFJ, and it's just bad songwriting. I mean, it's worked so far for her, right? So why change it? And it has to be digestible to her audience, hence the use of cliches that every girl can relate to. Still, I hear some of her other songs and it's thematically about "remembering when" of this moment/time/place (See: All Too Well for a perfect example) that I don't ever see lyrically explored by Ni-lyricists. They want to explore ideas in their songs not memories. Some examples would be Thom Yorke and Sufjan Stevens, which I realize are on independent labels, giving them absolute freedom, and probably different enneagram types as well, but now it's starting to feel like I'm making excuses.

velvetoveralls said:
I agree! It's kind of pathetic how much these newer songs pale in comparison to the ones she wrote as a child and teenager. I know it's not that she's not writing good songs -- it's just that she's not putting them on her album anymore because she's so much more afraid of being intimate about her life now. That's why she co-wrote so much for this album. Shame. Looks like she's sold out for now.

I find Red catchy and maybe one other song is heartfelt, but her voice doesn't even sound natural on a lot of them. And I'm not just speaking about ones like Trouble where they actually distort her voice just that her natural voice throughout sounds so overpolished by the studio. And what about 22?

Ryosuke93 · Dec 16, 2012

mistakenforstranger said:
I find Red catchy and maybe one other song is heartfelt

Is this the song that is heartfelt? I like this one a lot.

Also, could Ni manifest itself in the way she composes the songs and melody? She always seems to know exactly what tune she needs to create to get her songs catchy and stuck in our heads!

mistakenforstranger · Dec 16, 2012

velvetoveralls said:
I read your comment after reading a recent interview of hers and felt like posting something she said in it, lol...
“Rigatoni makes me feel weird. It’s like a wheel, and what’s it trying to do? It’s like an unfinished ravioli.”

From Personality Types by Lenore Thomson, pg 180:

"ISJs tend to believe that others don't "get" their sense of humor, but this isn't necessarily true. When ISJs feel comfortable, they make all sorts of observations about perceived discontinuities, some of which are dead serious. But they aren't the kinds of observations that everyone would make. So it's not always clear what kind of reaction the type is looking for."

And another, pg 178:
"But in truth, the inner worldof an ISJ is often delightfully unconventional, even whimsical, and the type's private interests can be decidedly offbeat."

I'm not saying this is conclusive of her type, but it is interesting to consider in relation to her.

IluvHSJ said:
Is this the song that is heartfelt? I like this one a lot.

Also, could Ni manifest itself in the way she composes the songs and melody? She always seems to know exactly what tune she needs to create to get her songs catchy and stuck in our heads!

Nah, it's this one. The emotion she conveys feels real to me.

I wouldn't say that "knowing the tune" would be indicative of Ni, or even those "A-ha!" moments, which everyone seems to attribute to Ni. That's just creativity at work. What could be interpreted as Ni are the little "hidden" messages she puts in her songs, but even those are decipherable. She wants people to guess who it's about and even wants that person who it's about to know it's for them. She thinks she'll probably get a response from whichever ex it's about. Ni puts layers in their lyrics, so it's paradoxical. You think it's one thing, but if you shift your perspective, it means something else. How do I come to any one interpretation when it really could mean anything? I can guess, but I'll never really know for sure. It all comes down to on your own perspective. Each person will have their own way of seeing the same thing. Ni likes to set things up in this way because it potentially gives their art more meaning than originally intended, while also giving listeners a lot of freedom. They aren't intentionally being misleading. It's just that what they are trying to communicate can be too ethereal to put into terms people can understand.

Here's a lyrically Ni song off the top of my head:

Ni could be seen, though, in the way she talks about her album, like with Speak Now, where each song is a reflection of some concept, one based on the wedding vow, "speak now..." I see some intuition in that, but why would Ni-types shape their life story around such a traditional event?

Believe me, my instinct says xNFJ, but the more I've looked into it, she has a lot of Si that's hard to deny. Based on functions, I'd be more willing to say she's an IsFJ or possibly an eNFJ (eNFJ because the Fe connecting message seems more important than the Ni expression, but what do we make of Si, then?)

Any feedback is welcome!

velvetoveralls · Dec 17, 2012

@mistakenforstranger Taylor has actually said she doesn't want people to know who she's singing about. She says she loves reading people's guesses and laughs to herself when they're wrong, because she's the only person who'll ever truly know. The secret messages in many of her songs are completely false, to mislead fans into thinking she dated certain people that she didn't date at all. She's actually only dated like 3 or 4 people in the past 7 years -- she just does so many PR stunts that lead people to think otherwise. And I've said this before in this thread, but half of Taylor's songs aren't even based on things that happened to her -- they're just complete fantasies, stories she made up.

mistakenforstranger · Dec 18, 2012

mistakenforstranger said:
I find Red catchy and maybe one other song is heartfelt, but her voice doesn't even sound natural on a lot of them. And I'm not just speaking about ones like Trouble where they actually distort her voice just that her natural voice throughout sounds so overpolished by the studio. And what about 22?

:blushed: Oops, I should've actually listened to the real thing and not the bootleg version on youtube before I said this. Her voice sounds A LOT better, but still stick to your country story-telling roots, Taylor!

velvetoveralls said:
@mistakenforstranger Taylor has actually said she doesn't want people to know who she's singing about. She says she loves reading people's guesses and laughs to herself when they're wrong, because she's the only person who'll ever truly know. The secret messages in many of her songs are completely false, to mislead fans into thinking she dated certain people that she didn't date at all. She's actually only dated like 3 or 4 people in the past 7 years -- she just does so many PR stunts that lead people to think otherwise. And I've said this before in this thread, but half of Taylor's songs aren't even based on things that happened to her -- they're just complete fantasies, stories she made up.

Right, but she doesn't make it too hard for certain people to figure out it's about them. Dear John? She denies it's about him, but c'mon, really?!

It makes no difference to me what Taylor's type is, I just want people to be clear on the difference between Si and Ni. Anyone can make up stories, fantasize, that's not what introverted intuition is about; N's in general are more likely to do those things, but those behaviors aren't necessarily indicative of a preference for intuition, at least in terms of cognitive function theory.

RCOEI · Dec 19, 2012

How about "I'd like to take her virginity!" How's that for analysis?!?

"I can write a song about this later" just doesn't seem like an ESFJ coping mechanism. I know SJ's can be creative, but I'm not seeing that temperament in her anywhere.

I'm not claiming to know her type, but ISFP is a possibility that wasn't mentioned in the OP. She's easily startled, like my old female ISFP buddy. Since they are Fi-dominant, they could be mistaken for NF's with their emotional intelligence and emphasis on feeling in their art work. She's quite easy-going and receptive, and not really as value-driven as NF's. Her very poised, well composed nature is plausable for certain ISFP's, especially if they're Enneatype Nine and have Three in their tritype.

velvetoveralls · Dec 19, 2012

This is a song Taylor wrote when she was about twelve:

Time is passing slowly for the eight year old next door
But mama's watch is ticking off the wall
Jillian and Bobby think that they're a perfect pair
But girls could say he's just a bit too tall

You don't have to do to win big
You just have to think it
Some folks say the glass is half full
Others choose to drink it

Some say the grass could be greener
And the other side ain't far away
But I say the old could be newer
And love still counts when it doesn't stay
Some say I love you
Some say love needs proof
It's all in your point of view

He hated pink so she threw out her favorite clothes
His NFL was turned to TLC
Baby's got an attitude and thinks they just don't know
But they all do and wish that she could see

You don't have to do to win big
You just have to think it
Some folks say the glass is half full
Others choose to drink it

Some say the grass could be greener
And the other side ain't far away
But I say the old could be newer
And love still counts when it doesn't stay
Some say I love you
Some say love needs proof
It's all in your point of view

In the least or masterpiece
Depends on one's opinion
Worst of all they never call
But don't think that they weren't wishing

Some say the grass could be greener
And the other side ain't far away
But I say the old could be newer
And love still counts when it doesn't stay
Some say I love you
Some say love needs proof
It's all in your point of view

It's all in your point of view
Point of view
It's all in your point of view

Isn't that Ni?

RCOEI · Dec 20, 2012

Could also be Fi. At any rate, it seems to be a challenge to Fe.
ISFP's have tert. Ni as well *shrug*

mistakenforstranger · Dec 21, 2012

Isn't this Si?

All Too Well

I walked through the door with you, the air was cold
But something about it felt like home somehow
And I left my scarf there at your sister's house
And you still got it in your drawer, even now

Oh, your sweet disposition and my wide eyed gaze
We're singing in the car getting lost upstate
Autumn leaves falling down like pieces into place
And I can picture it after all these days

And I know it's long gone
And that magic's not here no more
And I might be okay
But I'm not fine at all

'Cause there we are again, on that little town street
You almost ran the red 'cause you were looking over me
Wind in my hair, I was there, I remember it all too well

Photo album on the counter, your cheeks were turning red
You used to be a little kid with glasses in a twin size bed
Your mother's telling stories about you on the tee ball team
You tell me about your past, thinking your future was me

And I know it's long gone
And there's nothing else I could do
And I forget about you long enough
To forget why I needed to

'Cause there we are again, in the middle of the night
We're dancing around the kitchen in the refrigerator light
Down the stairs, I was there, I remember it all to well

And maybe we got lost in translation, maybe I asked for too much
But maybe this thing was a masterpiece 'til you tore it all up
Running scared, I was there, I remember it all too well

And you call me up again just to break me like a promise
So casually cruel in the name of being honest
I'm a crumpled up piece of paper lying here
'Cause I remember it all, all, all to well

Time won't fly, it's like I'm paralyzed by it
I'd like to be my old self again, but I'm still trying to find it
After plaid shirt days and nights when you made me your own
Now you mail back my things and I walk home alone

But you keep my old scarf from that very first week
'Cause it reminds you of innocence and it smells like me
You can't get rid of it 'cause you remember it all to well, yeah

'Cause there we are again, when I loved you so
Back before you lost the one real thing you've ever known
It was rare, I was there, I remember it all to well

Wind in my hair, you were there, you remember it all
Down the stairs, you were there, you remember it all
It was rare, I was there, I remember it all to well

letmeknowwhenitworks · Dec 23, 2012

Well this is interesting. From what I'm getting, this debate is a tug-of-war between typing using approaches (JCF) vs. typing using temperamental descriptions.

I would like to point out a premature Ni judgement that arose during some arguments. It seems that somehow if someone's "misunderstood", "weird", a "loner", or "imaginative", then said person is automatically intuitive . I beg to differ.

These are all temperamental descriptions, and I kid you not when I say that the only person who embodies these descriptions in my life right now is my sister, who is an ISFP. These descriptions do not apply to one type, nor should they be used to type people in an inductive sense. Yeah, the descriptions correlate with intuitive types, but correlation is not causation. A sensor growing up in a family or social circle full of intuitives would probably grow up feeling misunderstood, weird, or lonely as an intuitive in a sensor environment. Moreover, just because one demonstrates the use of a certain function does not necessarily mean that the function is one's dominant type. Taylor might be using intuition (although I think it's more Ne than Ni, but take that with a grain of salt), her intuitive function could be in the tertiary position; it's possible that her tertiary function is well-developed. Sensors are also capable of immersing themselves into fantasies, albeit the basis for such fantasies differs from intuitives. Actually, it can even differ depending on whether the functions are introverted or extroverted.

I think this is why she usually writes her songs alone at two o'clock in the morning, after waking up in the middle of the night; her mind would be "swimming" with images.

I wake up at 4am sometimes and deliriously make the funniest jokes/plan a strategy to cure HIV in my mind. Somehow it all makes sense in the moment. My sister sometimes wakes up in the middle of the night and writes stories and poems in her journal. I doubt waking up with mental images has anything to do with type. In fact, I remember being told in my creative writing class that waking up really early in the morning allows people to channel a stream of consciousness when writing (so I'm assuming there's a common physiological response underlying this phenomenon).

On a final note, I'm not sure how accurate it would be type a celebrity without seeing how far they go with their art. This whole image of Taylor right now could be a marketing facade for all we know. It's not possible to determine who Taylor (the person) is until she expands her music to other themes. We can, however, type Taylor (the persona), and from what I've read, I can't say that intuition is one of her primary functions. At least, not Ni.

mistakenforstranger · Dec 23, 2012

@letmeknowwhenitworks, thank you. I've tried to make a fair case for her intuition (Ni, specifically), but I just don't see it at all, at least not in the persona she constructs and lyrical content. I have to believe that she has at least some control over what she writes and puts out, though. Everything seems to fall on deaf ears here.

xEmilyx · Dec 23, 2012

reading all of this makes me even more confused. lol

Well I guess we can agree that she is an F and more specifically Fe.
she seems to have large amounts of Si at least in her writing?
and she also tends not to have a strong thinking function. I would think her thinking function is at the bottom of the list.
I don't necessarily believe the words artists write are who the person is. It's better to watch interviews and how she talks. She's very dreamy, and big picture thinking. I believe she uses Ni not as a first function, because Fe is her first function, but as a second function. Just watch ellen's interview with taylor. I just know that if I talk to her she'll "get" me and the intuitive things I spout out. She seems to connect the dots well. She also tries to connect with the audience, get emotion out of them (Fe).
Although I've actually met an ESFJ guy that seems to have a very good functioning Ne which can make him appear intuitive at times, but his adherence to the rules and traditions are a lot more enforced than what my ENFJ sister would do. Taylor seems a lot more open to new ideas and more flexible than a traditional ESFJ.
but hey I could be wrong.

Although I'm pretty sure she's Fe dominant, and thinking last.

So she is either ESFJ or ENFJ

There's plenty of extroverted people that seem like their introverts. My sister is an ENFJ and she's pretty introverted for an extrovert so is my father and brother (both are ESTP's) my mother is an ISFJ but she seems extremely extroverted.

JonathanG · Dec 23, 2012

Just watch ellen's interview with taylor. I just know that if I talk to her she'll "get" me and the intuitive things I spout out. She seems to connect the dots well. She also tries to connect with the audience, get emotion out of them (Fe).
Although I've actually met an ESFJ guy that seems to have a very good functioning Ne which can make him appear intuitive at times, but his adherence to the rules and traditions are a lot more enforced than what my ENFJ sister would do. Taylor seems a lot more open to new ideas and more flexible than a traditional ESFJ.
but hey I could be wrong.

Si isn't about adherence to rules and traditions. It can be, but not necessarily. And SJs can connect the dots too, just like any functioning person.

Honestly, most of the arguments in favor of Taylor being intuitive sounds like ''But she's not dumb, so she can't be a SJ''.

Mioonebet · Dec 23, 2012

Taylor Swift is most certainly INFP.

Mumla · Jan 12, 2013

Maybe T

Let's Analyze Taylor Swift...

mistakenforstranger

Ryosuke93

velvetoveralls

velvetoveralls

JonathanG

mistakenforstranger

Ryosuke93

mistakenforstranger

velvetoveralls

mistakenforstranger

RCOEI

velvetoveralls

RCOEI

mistakenforstranger

letmeknowwhenitworks

mistakenforstranger

xEmilyx

JonathanG

Mioonebet

Mumla

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