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I relate to SO much of this, it's ridiculous.

Especially towards my competitiveness. It's bad. I get jealous super easy and if I see someone I'm actually jealous of, I become prideful and aggressive. More so to convince myself that I'm "higher" than them more than anyone else I think when it comes down to it. I'm a very hostile and aggressive person when my buttons are pushed.
 
I still feel like a beginner in the Enneagram world and I'm kinda just starting to read up on all the types on a deeper level (only really did the "basics" so far, now I'm reading through most of the pinned articles of all the types) and it's all so interesting but confuses me too. I'm trying to get to grips with it all, and part of that is figuring out which type/instinct etc I relate to the most.

At the moment I identify as a 4 because many of my recurring thoughts and feelings are so 4-ish and I really relate to a lot of it, and the instinct that I sort of "picked out" for myself was Sx, and I often test as Sx in instinctual variants tests, but this description and some of the others I've read don't quite ring true. This seems to be a particularly negative description, and while part of me does sort of "indulge" in angry/emotionally extreme expression when in a bad state, I'm actually not all that competitive. I don't feel a need to hurt others because I've been hurt (although when in a very self-aware state I realise that I do occasionally think thoughts like "Yeah I want her to feel bad, she deserves it"), and while I do LOVE to be the best, I don't really look at that as being a big part of the core me. I identify as 4w5, rather than 4w3, so that may be one of the reasons why.

Yea basically I'm just rambling to try and figure myself out and maybe get some insight from others too.

On paper, the Sx variant seems to fit me because I have this need for intense connections with individuals (whenever I get it it's like heaven, although it doesn't happen as much as I would like), but all this competitiveness as is described just doesn't particularly seem to fit what I feel is me at my core. Sometimes I wonder if I'm really a 9 because as much as I'm motivated by powerful emotional experiences like a 4, I'm often motivated by getting peace and tranquility, and I sort of want to float away lol, but so many of my thoughts and feelings are very 4-ish which is why I tend to identify as a 4, and usually test as a 4 as well (with 9 a fairly close second).
 
Thanks so much for posting.

As a 4w5 Sx/So with 458 tritype, my intensity and competitive/envious anger st times can be off the charts. Sometimes scary.

Gotta work on self care, and seeing myself as inherently enough.
 
Thanks so much for sharing.

As a 4w5 Sx/So with a 458 tritype, my intensity and competitive/envious anger can at times be off the charts. Recently I've been quite scared of it.


I need to work on self care, self love, and understanding that I am inherently enough.
 
I really wonder if 4w5 sx-dom relate to this:
They are highly competitive, and their intense focus on competition takes the form of actively striving to show that they are the best.
I'm 4w5 sx/so. I relate to this but it's definitely an oversimplified explanation. I don't always feel the need to be the best. If someone does me wrong though I like to beat them at whatever "game" is important to them. And it's never about them knowing that I beat them. I don't give a crap if they know or not. I just like the feeling I get when I know I did better than them. It's like that saying..."success is the best revenge." Dunno if that makes sense.

People with this subtype tend to have an “all or nothing” belief related to success: if success is not all theirs, they are left with nothing. This pattern leads to excesses related to their efforts to achieve success, and it also generates feelings of hate

Hate is a strong word. I don't know that I've ever felt it.


4w5 sx-dom, how do you summon the energy & motivation to compete?!
I don't need to summon the energy and motivation. It's just there. And it's especially there when someone has hurt me/angered me/etc.
 


I'm 4w5 sx/so. I relate to this but it's definitely an oversimplified explanation. I don't always feel the need to be the best. If someone does me wrong though I like to beat them at whatever "game" is important to them. And it's never about them knowing that I beat them. I don't give a crap if they know or not. I just like the feeling I get when I know I did better than them. It's like that saying..."success is the best revenge." Dunno if that makes sense.



Hate is a strong word. I don't know that I've ever felt it.




I don't need to summon the energy and motivation. It's just there. And it's especially there when someone has hurt me/angered me/etc.
Interesting... hate is not a feeling far below the surface for me :blushed:, but I have no drive to compete. I feel "above it".
Now, seeing someone I hate fail may bring me satisfaction, but I won't have a hand in their downfall. It feels like karma or their just deserts.
 
I should clarify. I don't intentionally hurt people with my "revenge." I just "win." Like there was this chick who pissed me off. I knew she was insecure about her ability to get good grades. We were both taking Anatomy. I got an A in the class so I could "win" against her. But I'd never tell her that. It was never my intention to actually hurt her. It was more of enjoying my own success while watching her fail. It's actually really similar to what you said @OrangeAppled....just sort of watching them get their own just deserts.

If that makes any kind of sense at all.

OrangeAppled do you really truly hate people?
 
I should clarify. I don't intentionally hurt people with my "revenge." I just "win." Like there was this chick who pissed me off. I knew she was insecure about her ability to get good grades. We were both taking Anatomy. I got an A in the class so I could "win" against her. But I'd never tell her that. It was never my intention to actually hurt her. It was more of enjoying my own success while watching her fail. It's actually really similar to what you said @OrangeAppled....just sort of watching them get their own just deserts.

If that makes any kind of sense at all.
Well, I can relate to this then. In school, I was partly driven to achieve good grades because I felt annoyed by the idea of overachievers doing better than me just because they made effort and I could be a slacker. I felt I could do better with less effort, so why not?

I suppose that is a competitive attitude, but it was never directed at any individual. It was a very vague feeling directed at an idea. That kind of vagueness is how I experience envy and, by extension, any form of competitiveness.

When it comes to being placed against a real individual, I may take an attitude of letting them win because I don't need to. Losing can weirdly reinforce my ego more - I'm a tragic figure. There is a kind if spitefulness in losing because you didn't try. I also had some idea of spiting others by shorting them of my own, IDK, beauty as a person - sort of like the melodramatic idea of getting pleasure out of seeing people sad and regretful at your own funeral.

I didn't consciously acknowledge any of this...it was just some vaguely felt motivation. I don't feel this so much in recent years either.

OrangeAppled do you really truly hate people?
I don't currently hate anyone. But I have felt hate for individuals in the past, yes. This is not born out of envy but a feeling they wronged me and got away with it. Hence the "karma" thing.
 
Well, I can relate to this then. In school, I was partly driven to achieve good grades because I felt annoyed by the idea of overachievers doing better than me just because they made effort and I could be a slacker. I felt I could do better with less effort, so why not?

I suppose that is a competitive attitude, but it was never directed at any individual. It was a very vague feeling directed at an idea.
That kind of vagueness is how I experience envy and, by extension, any form of competitiveness.

When it comes to being placed against a real individual, I may take an attitude of letting them win because I don't need to. Losing can weirdly reinforce my ego more - I'm a tragic figure. There is a kind if spitefulness in losing because you didn't try. I also had some idea of spiting others by shorting them of my own, IDK, beauty as a person - sort of like the melodramatic idea of getting pleasure out of seeing people sad and regretful at your own funeral.

I didn't consciously acknowledge any of this...it was just some vaguely felt motivation. I don't feel this so much in recent years either.
Ah I see. Hehe yes tragedy works much better with losing than it does with winning. Hehehe. I can definitely relate to the appeal of tragedy.

And I see, more general for you. For me it's definitely directed at specific individuals. I don't actually know that I'd even be competitive if they never pissed me off. Hrmm. Like I have this INFP friend. She's soooooooo nice. Like the nicest nice ever. Know what I'm talking about? Anyway, we went bowling this one time and it was the worst game of bowling ever. I just had no desire to compete with her. Nice people kill any desire within myself to compete. While we were bowling in my head I was like "This is so boring. Let me just hurry up and lose so we can end this." Haha. Bowling is only fun when there is at least a little competition. At least for me anyway.



I don't currently hate anyone. But I have felt individuals for people in the past, yes. This is not born out of envy but a feeling they wronged me and got away with it. Hence the "karma" thing.
Ah I see. Hrm. I'm sure if someone wronged me in a big enough way I'd be capable of hate too.
 
Hey everyone,
so I was reading Chestnut's description today and it really shocked me... There are some aspects that don't seem like type Four at all, such as the parts about competition. It made me wonder if I know any Sexual Fours; I had typed certain people as a Sexual Four in the past, simply because they seemed like Fours and they seemed like Sexual instincts, but they are nothing like Chestnut's description. So now I'm just really curious if I know any Sexual Fours at all, and how I would recognize one if I did.

In particular, they seem really difficult to tell about from Three's. Chestnut says they want to be the best and won't settle for anything less, so that sounds so much like Three, and so much NOT like most of the Fours I do know.

So err, I just my question is, Sexual Fours, (assuming you do identify with Chestnut's description), what are you like? What are your obvious/ surface-level traits? i.e. how you come off to people? How would I recognize you?
I mistyped myself as 7w8 or 8w7 in the past for a looong time. Chesnut's definition of Sx 4 was like this is it - enlightenment. Feeling of reaching the true meaning behind all of this.

On the surface I can be anything from I don't give a single fuck -5ish to get out of my way or else -8ish. The one thing I really can't ignore is a good competition. I don't give a fuck, I want to win. I love it, I love to have something I'm the best at. On the other hand I want a good fight. If whoever I compete against is rubish I lose pleasure in fighting, it doesn't serve the purpose. I want to deserve to be the best. Always loved close fights or overcoming some sort of handicap. This, intensity and strong preference towards one-on-one situations.

That's on the surface. I don't think you can easily distinguish a Sx 4 just based on that. I seriously couldn't see myself as 4 for such a long time and that's given all the memories and feelings I've got. I seem to be attracted to the same level of intensity which obviously won't work for a different type.

As for looking like a E3, I lean more towards w5 but w3 probably is as common. I feel the need to be the best comes from internal need to make up for being damaged in some way, imperfection, shame or a loss not to achieve a material or social standing. E4w3 motivation most likely leans the other way.
 
There are definitely accurate points in this but definitely not entirely me.

Maybe I'm more of a healthy 4, or there's a difference between sx 4w5 and sx 4w3...

I'm a lot more vulnerable and competitive or envious in very specific situations. I have reached stages of arrogance and eased up on these as soon as pinpointed as such, ended up feeling ashamed and stupid.

However, in general I do have the sense of superiority, more like I feel like I am a worthy individual, which contradicts with the fact I'm not a very confident person (I do wish to become and have been working on becoming more confident but that doesn't mean opting for arrogance). Definitely do not like to boast or harm/punish others when hurt or feeling envious. I might consider it but rarely act upon it. Have done so a few times when younger and I think that was pure immaturity. I definitely feel resentful towards people though when getting let down and if I do decide to forgive I never forget.
Looking at your tritype and at what you wrote gives me this feeling that some of the things you mentioned come from other, less visible sides of you. Having 478 in my tritype highlights some aspects like competitiveness, anger, intensity but deluded me into thinking that I'm not emotional at all. Even better, I tried to numb myself into oblivion because I couldn't stand all of my emotions.

The point is: this is just a side of an individual, never ever a crystal clear recipe of who we are.
 
Since this is my Subtype, I'll add my own experiences and attitudes.

Feeling simultaneously superior and inferior to others was common in me growing up. Then again it's probably that way with all 4s. I was very bright with great musical and writing talent, making me feel confident. But I made fewer friends than most people, wasn't as tall as I wished, and after highschool, I felt like others my age were taking their lives in wonderful directions that I wasn't. All of this brought me back down to feeling average about myself. Singled out and "different", for better or worse, was the big psychological theme.

Literature about having low drive and low self-confidence doesn't sound like me. There are moments where I pity myself but I generally feel like I can succeed at what I apply myself to. I think the "default 4" description in alot of Enneagram literature is the Social 4, leaving the Sexual and Self-Presevation types hanging out in the cold, and it just strikes me as alot of whining and drama without much effort to solve the problem.

In romance and friendship, I demand alot out of whoever I'm with. It's got to be fun, exciting, magical, meaningful, emotionally heightened. If it's not, I will complain loudly, or if there's no hope, to just ruefully walk away. Fortunately I'm a great contributor to creating that magic as long as the other party/parties are paying their share because I genuinely want things to work out to everyone's benefit. People pay a high toll with me, but they get what they pay for.

In competitive situations, I want to win. Most definitely. I identify with predatory animals. It's better to be the wolf (or my personal fave, the komodo dragon) than the sheep or the rabbit. I want to be someone the other competitors are frightened to go up against, and I put a colossal effort into the struggle, to put on a real high-quality performance. At the same time, always being in competitor mode would be awful. I need to spend time around people I don't see as a threat. When Enneagram literature is poorly written, it makes 8s and 3s sound like perpetual threats (sometimes 7s too).

When I envy others, there is a small moment of sadness, followed by anger and heightened motivation. A real rush of emotion. Clarence Thomson on his website Enneagram Central gave movie examples for the 27 subtypes. He chose "Amadeus" with Salieri's rivalry with Mozart for the Sexual 4. I watched the movie at a low, tortured period in my life and the extent to which I identified with it was pretty impressive.

I see myself as a glass cannon. I have great offensive capabilities, going against others directly and being fierce is easy for me. When I'm angry it's not hidden. It's direct and in-your-face. Sometimes it's a fiery explosion that stuns and neutralizes anything I consider a danger. At the same time, I'm not well armored. Not like the 6 or the 8. I'm sensitive and it's easy for things to "get to me" that others would just shrug off. I purposely forgo wearing armor because I want intimacy, I want to bring others into my world. So for me, the best defense is a good offense.

Seeing myself as inherently "enough" is very therapeutic, as is the ability to take a person I envy, and just forget about them, to take them out of my mind, so as to better focus on obtaining good results in life, Not wanting to do it to show them I can do it, but instead merely for my own satisfaction.
 
Since this is my Subtype, I'll add my own experiences and attitudes.

Feeling simultaneously superior and inferior to others was common in me growing up. Then again it's probably that way with all 4s. I was very bright with great musical and writing talent, making me feel confident. But I made fewer friends than most people, wasn't as tall as I wished, and after highschool, I felt like others my age were taking their lives in wonderful directions that I wasn't. All of this brought me back down to feeling average about myself. Singled out and "different", for better or worse, was the big psychological theme.

Literature about having low drive and low self-confidence doesn't sound like me. There are moments where I pity myself but I generally feel like I can succeed at what I apply myself to. I think the "default 4" description in alot of Enneagram literature is the Social 4, leaving the Sexual and Self-Presevation types hanging out in the cold, and it just strikes me as alot of whining and drama without much effort to solve the problem.

In romance and friendship, I demand alot out of whoever I'm with. It's got to be fun, exciting, magical, meaningful, emotionally heightened. If it's not, I will complain loudly, or if there's no hope, to just ruefully walk away. Fortunately I'm a great contributor to creating that magic as long as the other party/parties are paying their share because I genuinely want things to work out to everyone's benefit. People pay a high toll with me, but they get what they pay for.

In competitive situations, I want to win. Most definitely. I identify with predatory animals. It's better to be the wolf (or my personal fave, the komodo dragon) than the sheep or the rabbit. I want to be someone the other competitors are frightened to go up against, and I put a colossal effort into the struggle, to put on a real high-quality performance. At the same time, always being in competitor mode would be awful. I need to spend time around people I don't see as a threat. When Enneagram literature is poorly written, it makes 8s and 3s sound like perpetual threats (sometimes 7s too).

When I envy others, there is a small moment of sadness, followed by anger and heightened motivation. A real rush of emotion. Clarence Thomson on his website Enneagram Central gave movie examples for the 27 subtypes. He chose "Amadeus" with Salieri's rivalry with Mozart for the Sexual 4. I watched the movie at a low, tortured period in my life and the extent to which I identified with it was pretty impressive.

I see myself as a glass cannon. I have great offensive capabilities, going against others directly and being fierce is easy for me. When I'm angry it's not hidden. It's direct and in-your-face. Sometimes it's a fiery explosion that stuns and neutralizes anything I consider a danger. At the same time, I'm not well armored. Not like the 6 or the 8. I'm sensitive and it's easy for things to "get to me" that others would just shrug off. I purposely forgo wearing armor because I want intimacy, I want to bring others into my world. So for me, the best defense is a good offense.

Seeing myself as inherently "enough" is very therapeutic, as is the ability to take a person I envy, and just forget about them, to take them out of my mind, so as to better focus on obtaining good results in life, Not wanting to do it to show them I can do it, but instead merely for my own satisfaction.
Haha, I remember seeing that movie, I identified a lot with Salieri too! In that movie Mozart is detestable 99% of the time, Forman portrayed him as a totally dumb idiot with an immense, undeserved talent... every time i see Amadeus I always end up rooting for Salieri all the time!!!

As for your description, and Chestnut description... I don't know. I'm almost sure being an INFP SX/SP 4w5, but I identify only with some traits. Both descriptions have a quite strong 3-vibe. I don't fear conflict, aggression and competition, when I engage into them I feel hugely energised and focused, but they're not something I actively go looking for . I will really engage into a competition if it is for something/someone really relevant for me (or if I feel hatred toward my competitor), otherwise I just feel above of it, an uninteresting waste of time. I usually dislike personal conflict (unless I'm in a bad mood, in this case I may get emotionally aggressive towards people who don't even deserve it), I prefer trying to understand the other person's reasons/feelings before reacting: if their motivations feel unvalid to me (or if they don't stop being aggressive) then I'll get aggressive too, and I will enjoy it.
In romantical attractions, I can have strong fears of being rejected, but I will be openly seducing anyway, I'm lured to the other person like a moth to a flame, it's just stronger than me. Then comes the push-pull, strong attraction/ strong repulsion, shifting back and forth between total love and total hate, a lot of conflicting emotions and thoughts following and creating huge mood swings. I get completely uninterested into actively looking for sexual encounters with other women, and I will turn down effortless offers of intimacy even from really attractive ones, beacuse they are no more of any interest to me. I lose interest in hobbies and meeting with friends. I forget my self-ambitions. Then I know I'm really in love. I can't fall deeply in love if I don't feel like that I'm losing myself playing with fire.
I usually feel like a silent volcano, waiting for a trigger to erupt (for all my emotions, not only hate-related ones). Or, putting it in animal terms, a quiet tiger looking around for something interesting to bite. If there's no trigger or something to bite I get really frustrated. On the outside I may appear aloof and sulky, but in a relationship (in intimacy, sexual or not) I get extremely passionate. In the past, friends and ex-girlfriends told me that I often emanate an "aura of hostility", and that I have a "sphinx-like" feel. The point is that hostility/aggression and being mysterious/reserved are my only practical defenses towards the world, when I lose them I feel like a completely vulnerable, defenseless child, and I don't like it at all, it is a luxury I can't afford. It's hard for me to share my deep weaknesses, and I always dream of a "total" relationship where I can effectively share completely my vulnerability and my sorrow without fearing that I will then look flawed and weak to my partner's eyes. I always wear an armor, it's my 5 wing. Maybe SP plays a part into that too. I don't care about being admired, showing others my successes, or feeling successful. I love the feel I get when I win, though. And yes, most of the time envy fuels hate and anger, not sadness.
 
I figured I was going to add something to this conversation but I really can't; everything that Spiritwalker86, Monadnock, and DarkSideOfLight said in their posts here I can agree with. When I first checked out the Enneagram way back when I was a teenager I thought I was a core 8 or 5; then when I did more research over that time and into my adult years I realized that I am indeed a sx Four. I have eight and five in my tritype of course, but at the base I'm definitely that 'competitive' / 'hate/anger not sadness' four.

Less QQ and more PEWPEW.
 
This instinct scares me more than eights. There is an overt hypocrisy that I just do not understand. Like a three wants success because they feel they will not be loved without success. A sexual four does not want to succeed for the love of others, they want to succeed, and at your cost, so they can feel love towards themselves. And like this desire to outcompete you is so severe, it's frankly uncomfortable to be around. Yet I'll have moments where I'm like, actually this person is amazing. They're just like me. They feel flawed. They are vulnerable. They are sensitive. But how come they resort to competition and anger and proving themselves so coldly time after time again? Like that is just not necessary. Stop the envy. Stop the race to the top, which is secretly to deal with the envy. I bet it isn't that easy?
 
I should clarify. I don't intentionally hurt people with my "revenge." I just "win." Like there was this chick who pissed me off. I knew she was insecure about her ability to get good grades. We were both taking Anatomy. I got an A in the class so I could "win" against her. But I'd never tell her that. It was never my intention to actually hurt her. It was more of enjoying my own success while watching her fail. It's actually really similar to what you said @OrangeAppled....just sort of watching them get their own just deserts.

If that makes any kind of sense at all.

OrangeAppled do you really truly hate people?
I can't help but judge. That sounds purely cruel, like my heart is aching for your classmate. As a four So/Sp, I feel like I am your classmate and the world is you. Even with my three wing I can't relate. Threes want a great image and success to attract people. Sexual fours want success for themselves and failure for others to feel better about themselves and their envy. Why why why?
 
It's been quite interesting reading that description! I thought that 4w3's in general are very competitive and ambitious, not that it was a sx thing! I relate to a lot of the description here, but as many others have stated, this is a SUPER NEGATIVE description of what 4's can be like in an unhealthy state.

It's unfortunate, because most four explanations seem to focus on the negative personality aspects much more than the other types!

So yes- I can relate to this description, but I would love to hear the GOOD side of a healthy sx 4!
THIS! I'd love if more attention can be brought to the Sx four when healthy. Also to help me see that side with the Sx fours I know. I think one really great thing is this ability to capture you emotionally. Sure in creative form that's easy, but to be a human form of a poem is magical.
 
I don't even know if I have Sx as I really don't relate to this depiction behaviorally , which show a VERY unhealthy version of the subtype (while I find Chestnut's 5 Sx way too healthy for example, when this subtype can be very ugly too). I have a competitive streak inside me though, it even was one of the hardest things to accept as a 4. It seems that Sx-last 4 usually don't, which is one of the reasons why my Sx may be second. My gut fix is 9w1, also.

As for the good side of 4 Sx. In this thread I feel like it's well stated : [Enneagram Type 4] - Four instincts a la Fauvres. According to it I would clearly have Sx in my stack, way more than So.

This competition can be held in a good way when the 4 is healthy, I'd say. It's not always a negative thing. The feeling of lacking makes you want to fill the gap , to show yourself and your authenticity. It's an impulsion (I found out that it's a real source of creativity for me, usually way more than shame).

I also feel that underneath the hatred, there is the purest love, and a really keen eye for beauty. You hate it because it's actually too beautiful to be true. You want it and you'll never be that. Being hateful is a way to compensate.

If you take Salieri in Amadeus, he hates Mozart, but he also is the one who sees and admire his talent the most deeply, which shows in a more positive way at the end of the movie.
Baudelaire (Naranjo's example for 4 Sx) was all about beauty in his poems also, in the purest way I've ever seen. And while Snape hated Harry, he also was the person who loved him the most.

I can't help but judge. That sounds purely cruel, like my heart is aching for your classmate. As a four So/Sp, I feel like I am your classmate and the world is you. Even with my three wing I can't relate. Threes want a great image and success to attract people. Sexual fours want success for themselves and failure for others to feel better about themselves and their envy. Why why why?
But is that such a big deal for her ? It's hard for you because you are a 4 and the competition actually matters to you and your identity. She wanted a good mark, but did she necessarily want to be the best ? Also, apart from that, she didn't seem like a good person anyway.
I feel like there is a pathetic quality in this competitive envy, also (that's how I can see myself sometimes). Maybe the girl still got a good grade, and managed to live her life very well. The Sx 4 is a hater. Even if the others lose, they will generally accept it more readily than the Sx 4, who would be even more of a hater if they lose. And all of this triggers the envy even more, as the other people are "whole" even with bad marks, they don't lack what the 4 lacks.

I actually have been in this situation in high school, where a girl (who probably wasn't a 4 Sx) shoot "Yes !!" when she found out I had a grade that was lower than her's. As this wasn't an area where I felt inconfortable, I just found it sort of inappropriate, it pissed me off. When 4 Sx (but it can be 6 Sx as well, or even 2 or 3) want to lead you to their own competition, it's generally annoying as they force you to care about it, and it can trigger painful feelings if it's in an important area. But actually they do this because they are insecure in their own way.
 
I don't even know if I have Sx as I really don't relate to this depiction behaviorally , which show a VERY unhealthy version of the subtype (while I find Chestnut's 5 Sx way too healthy for example, when this subtype can be very ugly too). I have a competitive streak inside me though, it even was one of the hardest things to accept as a 4. It seems that Sx-last 4 usually don't, which is one of the reasons why my Sx may be second. My gut fix is 9w1, also.

As for the good side of 4 Sx. In this thread I feel like it's well stated : http://personalitycafe.com/type-4-forum-individualist/122359-four-instincts-la-fauvres-4.html. According to it I would clearly have Sx in my stack, way more than So.

This competition can be held in a good way when the 4 is healthy, I'd say. It's not always a negative thing. The feeling of lacking makes you want to fill the gap , to show yourself and your authenticity. It's an impulsion (I found out that it's a real source of creativity for me, usually way more than shame).

I also feel that underneath the hatred, there is the purest love, and a really keen eye for beauty. You hate it because it's actually too beautiful to be true. You want it and you'll never be that. Being hateful is a way to compensate.
If you take Salieri in Amadeus , he hates Mozart, but he also is the one who sees and admire his talent the most deeply, which shows in a more positive way at the end of the movie.
Baudelaire (Naranjo's example for 4 Sx) was all about beauty in his poems also, in the purest way I've ever seen.
And while Snape hated Harry, he also was the person who loved him the most.



But is that such a big deal for her ? It's hard for you because you are a 4 and the competition actually matters to you and your identity. She wanted a good mark, but did she necessarily want to be the best ? Also, apart from that, she didn't seem like a good person anyway.
I feel like there is a pathetic quality in this competitive envy, also (that's how I can see myself sometimes). Maybe the girl still got a good grade, and managed to live her life very well. The Sx 4 is a hater. Even if the others lose, they will generally accept it more readily than the Sx 4, who would be even more of a hater if they lose. And all of this triggers the envy even more, as the other people are "whole" even with bad marks, they don't lack what the 4 lacks.

I actually have been in this situation in high school, where a girl (who probably wasn't a 4 Sx) shoot "Yes !!" when she found out I had a grade that was lower than her's. As this wasn't an area where I felt inconfortable, I just found it sort of inappropriate, it pissed me off. When 4 Sx (but it can be 6 Sx as well, or even 2 or 3) want to lead you to their own competition, it's generally annoying as they force you to care about it, and it can trigger painful feelings if it's in an important area. But actually they do this because they are insecure in their own way.
True, interesting there's this philosophy class I was considering taking which is actually about hatred, anger, etc and why those emotions are not actually as bad or terrible as we think...
 
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