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The alluring trap of INFP's..

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alluring boring entp feelings infp interesting mbti random trap
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15K views 66 replies 35 participants last post by  Dabbling  
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#1 ·
So, I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but for some reason I always end up making friends with INFP's. And it never EVER seems to work out. It's like, they pull me in with their Ne charm, and at first we connect with that. Then the feelings stuff comes along and it's like "wow, this is amazing, someone actually wants to listen to me". But then I get to a point where I realize all they ever do is talk about feelings, without actually ever talking about how they feel, somehow. That's usually when it becomes a chore to try and make the conversations more fun again, and once that happens, I stop trying, thereby making the friendship completely fizzle out. The conclusion.. we never talk again.

It's like, I always fall for their charm, even though I know where it'll eventually lead. Anyone else experienced this or is that just me?

Edit: Also.. I've just met an ENFP for the first time and we seem to get along like an explosion on drugged up marshmellows.. is the same thing bound to happen or will the dominant Ne override that?
 
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#5 ·
I wish I could but there seems to be an over-abudance of NF's here. The only other NT I know is my best friend. (who is awesome sauce btw)

Ista said:
Where to begin, where to begin.
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I take it you know what I'm talking about..?

Envisionarylunacy said:
Usually I tell other people SOME of my less important problems that way they open up and trust me more and its a lot easier to help them , but then after that I don't want to talk about my feelings because....I don't want people to get sad because of me, even if we are boring after we are still around if people need to vent
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I understand that, but I think it's rather frustrating because I would rather someone say what they are feeling and have it all done with than hold it in. I don't push people for details, but it does begin to feel really one sided after a while.
 
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#4 ·
Usually I tell other people SOME of my less important problems that way they open up and trust me more and its a lot easier to help them , but then after that I don't want to talk about my feelings because....I don't want people to get sad because of me, even if we are boring after we are still around if people need to vent
 
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#6 ·
maybe they don't trust you with those kinds of things? Why does it bother you if its one sided? That's what infps do, they are everyones shoulder to cry on and have no shoulder of there own....they are only going to tell u things if they incredibly trust you.
 
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#7 ·
I think it bothers me because there I am pouring everything out and nothing is reciprocated. Kinda makes for a poor relationship don't you think? I guess it's hard because I tend to tell people almost everything (if they ask that is), regardless of whether I trust them or not. ENTP thing? Not sure. Whilst if you ask an INFP something they just come back at you with a brick wall. I feel like I have nothing to work with to engage conversation and in the end it just fizzles out and dies..

One of my best friends was an INFP once.. it was one of the best friendships, but it was kinda on and off for a couple of years and then it just died out completely and we just stopped talking altogether..

I dated an INFP once and it ended up exactly the same way.. except this time the whole process was a lot quicker.

Idk, is it just that Ne-Ti and Fi-Ne are eventually incompatible?
 
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#50 ·
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#10 ·
We are sparing your feelings...if you are on an emotional roller-coaster about a girl that broke your heart, I will listen and try to make you feel better. But, making you feel better probably doesn't include me telling you the heart wrenching details of growing up with a Histrionic Mother, or losing part of my family over a difference in religion, or watching my first child die. That won't make you feel warm and cozy...but I want you to feel warm and cozy because you are here right now. You are alive, brilliant, loved, and talented and we want to see you embrace the good and make this world a better, more interesting place.
 
#58 · (Edited)
I’ve gone through this thread and it seems to me that there is a grave misconception of INFP intentions and expectations (granted, not all INFP are the same). Interestingly enough, I have been haunted by the other end of your perpetual experience @ScarlettHayden . I don’t understand why my “friends” (I say it with hesitation because I’m no longer sure what I consider a friend) will convey all of their problems to me and I’ll console and comfort, shut up and just listen when need be, do all I can to be there for them, but they never (at least hardly ever) reciprocate.

The resulting question, I suppose would be “How can we do that for you if you never open up to begin with?”. It’s a good question and it’ll be a perpetual one if we don’t start to understand each other a little better.

So, first things first “Why don’t you open up?”



That’s why I hesitate to open up and, for sure, if the you’re sharing your feelings, pain, heartache I’m not going to pile mine onto you as well!

Brian1 said:
I think I can sort of understand people's point of just trying to be kind and being accused of being cruel,because, I like to help people, but,its the natural function on the INFP to help people to the point if they don't help people, they feel worthless. Well, this is all very kind and all,but,I feel,there's a lot of people that want to help in the world and I sense sometimes,people in the INFP community,probably not all of them, but some, don't want to share that feeling of helping someone with other people,unless they are in charge and doing the helping, and you're on the receiving end. And when you say something, its like 'look we're doing all this for you, why do you have to argue with us and act so negative?',when in truth, I just want to share in the act of helping other people. Other than they that INFPs make great friends.
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A terrible misconception! I would not feel worthless by not being able to help someone nor do I wish to covet all ‘helping abilities’ (granted, you did mention “not all [INPFs]”) . I am upset when someone I care about is upset because they are upset. I don’t like them hurting because I care about them and want them to be well and happy. That’s why I want to help them, not so that I can feel some sort of false worthiness.

For the INFP’s who you may have been referring to, if you are correct in your assumption, I weep for them. It’s pointless to seek worth through fleeting things.
@OrangeAppled and @Dabbling , thank you so much. Both of your understanding and defense helped me to calm down a bit.
OrangeAppled said:
nezumify said:
I have an INFP as a best friend and a few ENFP friends. The only thing that irritates me about the relationship is the emotionally depressed ruts that xNFPs can get into. The ones that they can't seem to get out of, and even though I know a logical solution to it. Even though most people can see the cause and effect but no one can say anything because it's not like the xNFP doesn't already know, and saying something only seems to make them swirl deeper into unhappiness. I've tried, and it never works. Plus I get told that I'm too blunt, so now I start off important discussions with "I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't have a gentler way to say this...."
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In this situation, I can say rather confidently that you really don't understand or know the core issue. You only think you do, which is why your advice is unwanted, unused &/or ineffective. It's possible you have not even been told the real issue, but fed something simpler to put you off track. Fi types will sometimes present something as simple to people to guard the deeper feelings. Then people offer simple solutions & get mad when they're not applied. Well, that's because you were given a "fake problem", or really, a dumbed down version for those we don't think are emotionally capable of understanding. Much like how you would explain something complicated to a 5 year old...
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Fibonacci said:
I don't 'dumb down' my problems in order to make others understand, I do it to test their reaction. And the reaction I usually get is the silent treatment. My friends have become too comfortable with me being the strong one and their shoulder to cry on.
I somehow end up smiling and make them feel better by changing the subject :/
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When we give the simplified situation/ emotion it’s not necessarily about making you understand. It’s about seeing what you’ll do with it. If I can’t trust you with $1 why would I trust you with $1,000 !? And having an “answer a dumb question with a dumb answer” mentality, keeping in mind that it was mentioned that apparently our ‘facades’ and “lies” are transparent, is essentially saying “This little stuff is worthless, I don’t what this. Give me the real deal!” *rips dollar and throws it away*

Can you see know how that’s failing the test? We want to be able to trust the people we’re going to confide in (whether you need to or not). Why would we open ourselves up to someone who would consider anything we give them dismissible, no matter how seemingly insignificant it may be.

With that in mind…

OrangeAppled said:
Bluntness often seems dismissive. It trivializes, reducing the weight of the problem, in effect, saying they shouldn't feel that way. That makes people feel silly & stupid, which exacerbates their bad feeling. Often, people do know the solution to their problem; but they need to heal emotionally first before they can get back up & move forward.
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@nezumify , Sure, healing and moving forward do work hand in hand, but sometimes people are so weak and beat to the ground that it requires a bit of aid to even get them up and taking the first steps.

Finally @Dabbling , your input was worth far more than 4 cents. I appreciate every word and am so glad you’ve gotten to know the INFPs in your life with the understanding that you have :) It always gives me hope to think someone out there understands.

To all who are trying (because accomplishments first take effort) to have healthy relationships with INFPs regardless of your personality types, I give this advice:

Don’t assume. Ask. Show that you want more from them, and they’ll do their best to be more considerate in that area. Trust me, we don’t want to be misunderstood and unknown. We just need to know that it’s okay to open up.

I leave you with this analogy: We stand on the other side of a locked door, you can knock all you want but chances are, we’re not opening it. You have the keys. Use them.
 
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#13 ·
i don't really understand what u mean by died out, if someone stops talking to me it doesn't mean i wont talk to them again if they choose to do so at a later time when they have something to talk about, i usually feel forgotten by my freinds
 
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#16 ·
I have an INFP as a best friend and a few ENFP friends. The only thing that irritates me about the relationship is the emotionally depressed ruts that xNFPs can get into. The ones that they can't seem to get out of, and even though I know a logical solution to it. Even though most people can see the cause and effect but no one can say anything because it's not like the xNFP doesn't already know, and saying something only seems to make them swirl deeper into unhappiness. I've tried, and it never works. Plus I get told that I'm too blunt, so now I start off important discussions with "I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, but I don't have a gentler way to say this...."
 
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#19 ·
I've just been in your shoes many times. I'm pretty blunt in my approach. i've heard they want some type of validation, and that'll make them feel better. Nice line, I've got to try that.
 
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#20 ·
This sounds more like a problem you have rather than a problems INFPs have. You expect these people to reciprocate things when they really have no reason to. When they do, they do. Haven't you also noticed a paradox, here? You're readily willing to drop people and stop trying, yet you expect them to open up to you. An INFP needs to trust the person they're opening up to before they'll get going, but why should they trust a person who stops trying to advance the friendship if it isn't what they expect? That's counter-intuitive, to me.

Also, speaking for myself... I'm an INFP and I don't talk about feelings all the time, so I just think it's a fairly homogenous batch of INFPs you're getting. I have a stupid, retarded and wacky sense of humour and ENTPs usually play along with it. In fact, the INFP+ENTP combination can get pretty wacky in the hilarious yet totally stupid kind of way.
 
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#26 ·
So, are you INTPs rebelling against an unhealthy INFPs "special snowflake", that is sort of unable to see criticism as anything but negative?


just for the record, the special snowflake is an actual quote/coinage of word from an INFP. Also, I'm not passing judgement with this post, just asking a question,because, I've been told as a T, that my own words are too blunt. I think I can sort of understand people's point of just trying to be kind and being accused of being cruel,because, I like to help people, but,its the natural function on the INFP to help people to the point if they don't help people, they feel worthless. Well, this is all very kind and all,but,I feel,there's a lot of people that want to help in the world and I sense sometimes,people in the INFP community,probably not all of them, but some, don't want to share that feeling of helping someone with other people,unless they are in charge and doing the helping, and you're on the receiving end. And when you say something, its like 'look we're doing all this for you, why do you have to argue with us and act so negative?',when in truth, I just want to share in the act of helping other people. Other than they that INFPs make great friends.

At least that's my opinion,and interpretation of people's complaints in this thread.
 
T
#27 ·
Hmmm. Now, wait for a minute. If anyone can take the cake for being a blunt jerk it's an overtaxed INFJ. It's not just a T thing. Or an INFP thing. It may be an introverted thing. For an introverted thinker it might be the same as someone coming along and taking over your thought child. Telling you how insensitive you are because they just want some credit for a project too and you are hogging all the intellectual property. I could see how well that would fly.

That's where I would start brandishing mechanical pencils and get stabby about my book reports.
 
#43 ·
Hee. Nah, must be pure introvert. Can't remember if I'm supposed to be an introverted thinker or not, but I get the same way myself. Point to me is, a) pragmatism and emotion are two separate types of conversation - a logistical 'answer' to something I'm trying to identify on the emotional level is just dissonant. And b) on that thinking level, I guess I like to think out my own solutions all by myself.
 
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#28 ·
I believe the "problems" you are struggling to come to terms with lie entirely in the nature of xNFPs and xNTPs. (Addressing the OP directly.) My mother is an INFP. One of my sisters is an INFP. I was married to an xNFP for 6 years. None of them understand the way I evaluate the items I perceive, even if they perceive the items as well.

xNFPs look at the world with Ne, just as xNTPs do, and so may ask the same questions or find unusual approaches to looking at subjects. This translates directly into interesting conversations and initial attraction. Unfortunately, once an xNFP or xNTP grasps a subject, they processes it oppositely: the xNFP applies their own experiences and ideals to the object, while the xNTP simply cannot and refuses to do so, as doing so is "wrong."

At that point conversation becomes fruitless, as the xNFP strongly tends to apply their subjective opinions, the xNTP rejecting subjectivity altogether (or the inverse occurs, where the xNTP applies objective observations/opinions and the xNFP cannot grasp them).

Ne brings them together, the xNTP's Ti and Fe repulse the xNFP's Fi and Te and vice versa.

Another observation is that xNTPs will inevitably identify xNFPs as manipulators. Not because they are intentionally being manipulative, but the xNTP generally maintains this idea: "expressing non-objective opinions = expressing potential false-hoods = expressing lies." Naturally the xNFP isn't truly doing this, but the xNTP cannot handle it well at all. Inversely, xNFPs will inevitably identify xNTPs as heartless, as the xNFP generally maintains this type of idea: "When I express my feelings, I am sharing a part of my life with someone--part of who I am." And the xNTP doesn't understand how to deal with this idea in the slightest.

(Really, despite my own extensive experience with xNFPs, I struggle with handling any sort of communication regarding feelings. If I were to express my deepest feelings about some subject, I would expect the xNFP to objectively process it with me, potentially arguing with me, tearing my philosophy/feelings apart, asking me if I'm just being stupid about it, etc. etc. If they don't, then they aren't helping me at all!)

Hope this helps.
 
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#29 ·
Revenant said:
Another observation is that xNTPs will inevitably identify xNFPs as manipulators. Not because they are intentionally being manipulative, but the xNTP generally maintains this idea: "expressing non-objective opinions = expressing potential false-hoods = expressing lies." Naturally the xNFP isn't truly doing this, but the xNTP cannot handle it well at all.
Click to expand...

Great post. This in particular I found really insightful. I don't take compliments well at all -- they all sound like lies or ingratiation to me, even if they are sincere.
 
#36 ·
Maybe it is an Fi thing? When I have "the feels" in real life I must be difficult to understand properly, given the general cluelessness people tend to exhibit in their responses. Or maybe it is shock at someone with my personality having "the feels" in the first place? That could be it too, I suppose? Not sure.
 
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#38 · (Edited)
Maybe an example will help. How things are supposed to unfold.

1. Me, angsty, mildly frustrated, it's not because anyone's done anything wrong, I just think things could be a lot better than they are, and people do stupid things that I need to know that they would do better if they knew how it made everyone else feel. And I can imagine a better way, it's just I definitely wouldn't trust myself to do it ("it" in this case being roommate selection and housing lottery, by the way), beyond my own small part. I think that because of the way other people are handling a situation, it stops me and others from doing something that needs to be done in the proper way that could actually lead to people having a chance to act in a really decent way, and it's "wasting my time" but that's not the right phrase, because I don't want to worry about other people hurting me or one of my friends because it benefits them, and I don't want to be around people who would even think about doing things that way, which is why I'm hiding in this building instead of staying in the dorm where all the drama happens, but I wish I could take a couple people aside and just do things properly, with them, because I trust those people. But that would involve being in the atmosphere with those OTHER people, which makes it really hard to feel safe talking. Why don't people take things like this seriously?

How would this unfold:

1. Me, angsty, frustrated.
Suppose you actually sit down and ask, "what's up?"
"Not much, you?"
"Doing well, thanks" -- okay, conversation over.
"good."
period of silence. If you don't have somewhere to go, then: with a smile:
2. "I still need to find a roommate." Self-deprecating humor. This makes me feel better, it puts things in perspective. Weeks have passed, why haven't I sorted things out? Procrastination :happy:
Not that the above rant has disappeared, it hasn't. It's just clearly not what you expect from me, and if I can comfort myself, better me than you, I know me, do you know me?

If you make fun of me at this point or give advice, you are not my friend, though I still like you. Thanks.
3. "and I don't know where I'm living next year, because it's hard to pick a place to live." Hints at some of my concerns (oh, you don't see it? Well, it's more in tone. Picking a place to live entails all of the above issues...)

Same as after two, but now I'm not just trying to comfort myself any more. If you're still interested,
4. long rant, if I can
 
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#40 ·
Hmm, would I rather date an INFP or beat myself over the head with a crowbar? Which one will be more painful in the long-run... These are important things to consider. Crowbars can't jump to erroneous conclusions based on their personal insecurities, attack you randomly and then use your reaction as a basis for treating you like shit...
 
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#41 ·
this. I think this is where they're confused, because, they don't understand the Ti, Te, but I want to bring in our close cousins, the Js as INFPs have problems with both us Thinkers and Judgers, and I've had my words used against me based upon people's insecurities of themselves,without being told what those are. I'm not psychic.
 
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#42 ·
Casually inserting a "Not every INFP is like that."

Though I guess it seems a major INFP flaw would be a lack of communication (probably because they think there's no use in communicating--no one will understand them), a habit of being too sensitive, and a habit of jumping to conclusions and then using data to support conclusions based on feelings (rather than the other way around, as it should be).
 
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#44 ·
I've been on the receiving end of this. I like you guys,but, and each type has it's flaws,some of this type can really go into this unhealthy area, where they don't even consider other people's point of view,because that's an outside source different than what's affecting them internally, and anything I say is viewed as a personal attack, even when I don't intend it like that.
 
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#48 ·
@ScarlettHayden I've been thinking about something similar, about not ending up being nice and spending time with people I don't really want to be with. Maybe you could say something up front. I've been practicing this one in my head. Maybe this isn't quite on the mark but . . . . .

I'm not judgemental in the sense that I don't believe in telling other people how to feel, and I don't have a "normal template" that I belive everyone on the planet should line up with. I don't mind if you want to rant about something sometines. I know enough about you that I like you and I am happy to be a listener, or offer input if you ask for it . . . . .

But I don't do well with people who want to pull passive aggressive stuff, like door slaming or pouting, and thinking other people have nothing to do but decode cryptic messages, or jump through fake hoops to test for undying loyalty, or anything like that. So just in case, I'm saying you have to try to be straitforward with me. I'ts okay if it takes you a while to say what is on your mind. I have patience, but not good with mind reading. Just don't play games with me and make yourself hard to understand on purpose. Do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, just wanting to see us not go down a path that makes us both spin wheels, and be unhappy, you know? What do you think about that?

maybe it could be edited, - long winded :)
 
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#49 ·
I've never met any ENTPs so what I'm about to write may not be very helpful.

I don't 'dumb down' my problems in order to make others understand, I do it to test their reaction. And the reaction I usually get is the silent treatment. My friends have become too comfortable with me being he strong one and their shoulder to cry on.
I somehow end up smiling and make them feel better by changing the subject :/.

If I have a valid reason for feeling the way I do, I don't hesitate to speak to my friends about it. But I usually discuss the problem rather than my feelings towards it.

If I have absolutely no reason to be feeling depressed, then I don't bother. I just wait for the Fi to quiet down and bring me back to reality. I'd rather deal with my own problem than burden it onto others.

My friends and family think that I'm an insensitive robot with no feelings at all. Maybe I'm doing something right/wrong?
 
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#51 ·
Here's my four pennyworth.

INFPs are some of my best friends, so I'm biased towards them.

The danger with INFP is that they do give loads of emotional support, but it's important to point out to them regularly that you as INTJ want to support them too, otherwise it doesn't feel fair to you. Otherwise it would be codependency, @Envisionarylunacy and that is not friendship.

When they tell you their problems, try to imagine how it would feel to you to be in that situation. The way they talk is like descriptive writing in fiction but it is even better than reading a book because you can ask questions to clarify points (you did this before that?) and you can kind of get into the story. I love it. I tend to react as me (I would have felt that but I'm not sure I would have gone there) and I simply don't comment on whether what they did or felt was 'right' or 'wrong', any more than I would if reading a book. I find them interesting and they are themselves. As such I don't have a right to judge them, so I don't. In my experience they like this big time and feel 'accepted'. To me that is a no brainer, but it seems to be big to them. It's something I do automatically as INTJ, I think.

When they want 'validation' this is a difficult concept, but after many years and some mistakes I think it means something like this. They feel hurt or something bad has happened. They want to know it wasn't their fault, I think. Not in the sense that us INTJs would do, like a logical reasoning skill and it was 25% me, 75% him. More like 'this s*** happens to everyone because they are human, so it's not your fault it happens, because you are a human'. And they love being hugged.

They are great responders to my emotional written ramblings. If they write back then I can very easily befriend with them. And they are witty and they see through people like we INTJs do, but using different information. Often we have similar views on people but from different data sets. They make me see the world differently.

I have found the first period of getting to know them is so individual it can be tricky. I tend to think their values are often based on hurts and experiences from their past, and I understand this because there are things that push my buttons too, by bringing up memories. So a discussion where you ask them what their values are in particular, and maybe make it clear that you think they are actually telling you about their past hurts and that you have past hurts too, and that you get that, can be helpful.

I find them fascinating. Indeed I sometimes think that I relate to people as if I am INFP, in terms of collecting data about what my friends are like, but I am more often quite active in situations where there is personal hurt or conflict where they would be more passive. They use sorry in a totally different way than thinker types do, and that can be a bit confusing at first, because they use sorry to mean 'how awful' not 'I take responsibility', and they use it a lot.

So, that's how I see it. Loyal, emotionally intelligent, protective and worth having as friends, like the ones in the story books in many ways. They often seem to start as people pleases, and can be fiercely independent as a later reaction to this (a past hurt, with current result). I would love to know what they mature into after that, if any mature INFPs would care to share...
 
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#55 ·
To the topic creator:

My God how much this sounds like my experience with a female INFP (suspected INFP,) friend of mine.

She was so terribly attractive at first and I began to think there was something there, but after awhile conversation became awkward/unpleasant/tedious and so our relationship has since fizzed out.

So, I guess what Im saying here is "I feel ya," although I have also determined its best to leave her behind. There's no sense in forcing something that is difficult to maintain.
 
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