Hi,

I think I am INFP 5w4

1) I identify more as an INFP because I research information and love science because I think it fits my personal values.
I don't believe in Logic for the sake of objectivity.
I think objectivity does not exist, at least without subjectivities.

2) No. I don't think that. But it is true it was hard to doubt I was INTP because of personality stereotypes. You would except an INFP to be a writer, a poet, a musician or an artist I think. But it is not the case to me

3) I study how INFJ and INTP think.


Are you interested in psychology or in social sciences or political science ?

 

Hey thanks for replying! I also don’t believe in logic for the sake of objectivity unless the situation requires me to be objective, and even then, I’m merely choosing to be objective to serve subjective values, hence the dom Fi because my values come first. But my values are more decided about how I feel about things especially morality. Do you think that type 5 may make infp less emotionally driven on values?
As for the question, I’m more interested in psychology right now but I guess the psychology aspect I’m interested isn’t very mainstream “scientific”. I just got into mbti, socionics , enneagram etc. Was never really into sciences unless it was theory based and related back to more philosophical questions.

 

I am an INFP and a 5, I forget my wings, it's been a while. I've tested my MBTI type 6 times over 20 years, test results are the same every time. I've also tested as a 1, but when I read what that said, I realized it was what I was like earlier in life, but not how I am today. I retested with how I feel today and it came out as a 5.

I am very much like an INTP in my outward persona and in daily functions, but it's kind of an adaptation to my environment. At a young age I was in a family and situations that were detrimental to feelers so I adapted some filters to my feelings to get me though life, and those filters became automatic. I am still fully a feeler first, but it goes through a thinkers filter before I act.

I am naturally an analytical person, and loved science since I was very young. Everyone that knows me on a surface level thinks I'm a thinker. I've been an electrical engineer my whole career. I'm also an artist and inventor, but that's all on the side: my hobbies. I live in sort of a duality.

I've always known I was a feeler, but didn't discover my thinker till I was a young adult and worked among a lot of other thinkers. I knew I was different from them, but realized I was like them in key ways at the same time.

 

I am an INFP and a 5, I forget my wings, it's been a while. I've tested my MBTI type 6 times over 20 years, test results are the same every time. I've also tested as a 1, but when I read what that said, I realized it was what I was like earlier in life, but not how I am today. I retested with how I feel today and it came out as a 5.

I am very much like an INTP in my outward persona and in daily functions, but it's kind of an adaptation to my environment. At a young age I was in a family and situations that were detrimental to feelers so I adapted some filters to my feelings to get me though life, and those filters became automatic. I am still fully a feeler first, but it goes through a thinkers filter before I act.

I am naturally an analytical person, and loved science since I was very young. Everyone that knows me on a surface level thinks I'm a thinker. I've been an electrical engineer my whole career. I'm also an artist and inventor, but that's all on the side: my hobbies. I live in sort of a duality.

I've always known I was a feeler, but didn't discover my thinker till I was a young adult and worked among a lot of other thinkers. I knew I was different from them, but realized I was like them in key ways at the same time.

I am not sure of those first two paragraphs, but I certainly hope it would be hard for an onlooker to tell INPs apart, since they use the same function attitude (Ne) and interaction style (Behind the Scenes) to communicate with the world. Additionally, it is common knowledge that once you take multiple tests to obtain a MBTI type, you are pretty much immune to taking test, moving forward. You now know exactly the result you're going to get by answering a question a certain way.

After the first two paragraphs, you seem to share your self-analysis of how you see a type 5 based on descriptions, but more importantly on stereotypes. Being analytical, enjoying the field of science, and being an engineer is not exclusive to this type, any more than being an artist or having an avantgarde way of dressing means you must be type 4. Everything described could be nurture, not nature. But that is what makes the enneagram different than MBTI... because the enneagram makes you ask why you do the things you do. Which brings me to my concern over claiming to be a type 5. Type 5s are not going to adapt to being someone they are not, especially pretending they are a feeling type as defined by Jung. Everything in their DNA runs counter to feeling type behavior. They are in the withdrawn triad for a reason, so instead they will simply remove themselves to prevent being influenced and ensure their boundaries are not exploited.

As this relates to personality type, I don't know anyone that would claim to use the exact opposing function to adapt to their environment, especially Ti dominant types. Similar to type 5s, TI dominant types are going to simply remove themselves from the hypocrisy of pretending to be a feeling type, no matter whose feelings are hurt. Jung notes this in his introduction on type by indicating that anyone forced to be a type they are not, will eventually result in neuroticism at best. But what you are claiming to be doing, Jung describes as being forbidden in his theory. Fi cannot replace Ti or vice-versa, because they are both judging functions that introvert. If you are claiming to Fe instead, then you are not an INFP type as well. .

 

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Two things. Not sure where you read into where anyone indicated you are pretending to do anything or anyone claiming that you are wrong about your type. Why on earth would anyone claim they know you better than you know yourself? With that said, I do take umbrage with anyone claiming something that simply violates the principles of type or the enneagram.

I have no doubt that you believe that you are INFP, but I do have serious concerns with anyone claiming to be able to exists as another type, especially when the type being claimed uses the exact opposite function. Contrary to belief, the opposite of Ti is not Fe. They are the same function which lies at the other end of the same spectrum. The true opposite of Ti is Fi because you have the same function and orientation. That is not possible not because I said it, it's because Carl Jung says it in his theory.

Naturally in saying this I only refer to those cases which occur under normal conditions. Under abnormal conditions, i.e. when there is an extreme and, therefore, abnormal attitude in the mother, the children can also be coerced into a relatively similar attitude; but this entails a violation of their individual disposition, which quite possibly would have assumed another type if no abnormal and disturbing external influence had intervened. As a rule, whenever such a falsification of type takes place as a result of external influence, the individual becomes neurotic later, and a can successfully be sought only in a development of that attitude which corresponds with the individual's natural way.

As regards to the particular disposition, I know not what to say except that there are clearly individuals who have either a greater readiness and capacity for one way, or for whom it is more congenial to adapt to that way rather than the other. In the last analysis it may well be that physiological causes, inaccessible to our knowledge, play a part in this. That this may be the case seems to me not improbable, in view of one's experience that a reversal of type often proves exceedingly harmful to the physiological well-being of the organism, often provoking an acute state of exhaustion.

Of all enneagram types, the type 5 is painfully aware of their limited energy, which is why they are always constructing boundaries, but more importantly they are not going to waste that energy on being something or someone they are not. I did not say that, the enneagram theory says it.

C. G. Jung states in this about the use of the dominant function:

For the sake of clarity let us again recapitulate: The products of all the functions can be conscious, but we speak of the consciousness of a function only when not merely its application is at the disposal of the will, but when at the same time its principle is decisive for the orientation of consciousness….. This absolute sovereignty always belongs, empirically, to one function alone, and can belong only to one function, since the equally independent intervention of another function would necessarily yield a different orientation, which would at least partially contradict the first. But, since it is a vital condition for the conscious adaptation-process that constantly clear and unambiguous aims should be in evidence, the presence of a second function of equivalent power is naturally forbidden' This other function, therefore, can have only a secondary importance, a fact which is also established empirically. Its secondary importance consists in the fact that, in a given case, it is not valid in its own right, as is the primary function, as an absolutely reliable and decisive factor, but comes into play more as an auxiliary or complementary function.

Here Jung is talking about the auxiliary function. If he is saying the second or auxiliary function cannot be equal to the dominant function what do you think he is going to say about someone claiming to use their 8th function?

 

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Two things. Not sure where you read into where anyone indicated you are pretending to do anything or anyone claiming that you are wrong about your type.

I claimed to be a 5 and an INFP, and that I've adapted some of my personality manifestations to adapt to my environment, to which you wrote:

Which brings me to my concern over claiming to be a type 5. Type 5s are not going to adapt to being someone they are not, pretending they are a feeling type

Perhaps it's your wording, but it seems to indicate you think I've mistyped myself, and am pretending (fooling myself?) to be a 5, or that if I'm a 5, I'm clearly not an INFP. That's what I read into it.

Why on earth would anyone claim they know you better than you know yourself? With that said, I do take umbrage with anyone claiming something that simply violates the principles of type or the enneagram.

so you won't endorse typing or correcting another person, just that you take umbrage with someone else saying something you disagree with as it relates to self typing, and you are willing to post it to the person that said it. That's a strangely conflicted position to take.

Is it meant to say you won't claim that I'm wrong, just that I can't be right?

I have no doubt that you believe that you are INFP, but I do have serious concerns with anyone claiming to be able to exists as another type, especially when the type being claimed uses the exact opposite function. Contrary to belief, the opposite of Ti is not Fe. They are the same function which lies at the other end of the same spectrum. The true opposite of Ti is Fi because you have the same function and orientation. That is not possible not because I said it, it's because Carl Jung says it in his theory.

My wife has taken the MBTI tests about 5 times, and has vacillated between ISTJ and ESTJ. Last time, she took note of the numeric values and was 51/49 : I/E. She exhibits traits of both, and at times it seems neither. It moves depending on mood and outside stressors. She truly favors I, but not by much. Not quite the same issue as you have discussed, but I've witnessed a person shift in and out of behavior patterns that demand different orientations to stimuli.

When she claims either ISTJ or ESTJ, when one is wrong? I've been married to her for 20 years, so I have plenty of data, it's not sample error.

Of all enneagram types, the type 5 is painfully aware of their limited energy, which is why they are always constructing boundaries, but more importantly they are not going to waste that energy on being something or someone they are not. I did not say that, the enneagram theory says it.

The more you write about 5's the more I feel I am one.

Here Jung is talking about the auxiliary function. If he is saying the second or auxiliary function cannot be equal to the dominant function what do you think he is going to say about someone claiming to use their 8th function?

I don't know enough about how enneagram functions work to predict or assess impossible combinations. I can tell you I've known and interacted with people with conflicted souls and inconsistent personality structures. Might I be one of those? perhaps.

 

I'm an INFP and a type 4 with both wings (I scored equal on types 3 and 4 and I know what aspects of me are closer to each of my wing types). I believe that some 5w4s with a strong 4 wing can be INFP. My girlfriend is a 5w4 and although I don't know her MBTI, I can see her having the F over the T. From what I've seen, the feeling part in the type 4 goes all the way to the core of their personality whereas the F part of the 5w4 will remain more superficial. However, those with a strong 4 wing will have powerful emotions which will compete with their rational side. Since emotions can be powerful, they can be led more by their emotions than by reason although reason constitutes their core and will be the first reaction or thing which comes to mind. I believe this to be especially true with women type 5s as women are bilogically programmed to follow their emotions more than men.

 

Thanks for reply, I think that is possible
(forgot to quote user sorry)

 

I think these two should be typed separately, it'll be easier.

An easy way to tell INFPs and INTPs apart is that they treat data very differently. You can bang data on the head of an INFP and there's a very clear rejection of data with their feelings ("I can't accept it. That doesn't feel right.") or they will force their feelings to align with the data. INTPs treat data like how INFPs treat beliefs. They need to examine it for themselves. Getting another INTP to admit they were wrong is a rare occurrence. Why would they? They don't accept findings without careful examination.

 

I think these two should be typed separately, it'll be easier.

An easy way to tell INFPs and INTPs apart is that they treat data very differently. You can bang data on the head of an INFP and there's a very clear rejection of data with their feelings ("I can't accept it. That doesn't feel right.") or they will force their feelings to align with the data. INTPs treat data like how INFPs treat beliefs. They need to examine it for themselves. Getting another INTP to admit they were wrong is a rare occurrence. Why would they? They don't accept findings without careful examination.

What about type 1s who are INTPs or INTJs? Any 1s tend to reject anything outside of their ideology whether they're T or F. Anyone is capable of having "emotional blockages" but I think that type 1s will have a lot more than type 5s regardless of the T and F on both types. I think that an INFP type 5 may analyse the data and arrive at the correct conclusion but decide to follow their emotions if they are strong regarding a certain subject. They are making an informed decision. Type 1s, being a gut type, will instantly react to new data by rejecting or accepting it right away without a thorough analysis of it. For them to change their mind, they'll either need to be super healthy (thus open to new ideas), suffer trauma because of the ideology they're following or be bombarded by other ideas for such a long time that they start doing micro analysis of the data each time and eventually arrive at the correct conclusion.

 

To me, knowledge is like cognitive empathy and Fi is affective empathy/sympathy.

when you feel emotion from other, I think INFP tend to absorbe emotion of other unconsciously. For example mimetism

I feel that knowledge is here to make me think about how I asborb this emotion so I would have a kind of how my body would absorbe emotion of other

 

Anyone familiar with the enneagram system knows that in contrast to other systems especially MBTI, no one wants to be their type. Many of the authors will tell their readers that your first reaction in finding your true type is to repel it, because it is painful. The enneagram is designed to make you see your true self, then provide the tools for you to work on yourself.

People want to dress up a particular type, then say that is me. That can't happen in the enneagram since authors like Helen Palmer and Don Risso, are consistent in saying you must determine your core type before adding wings and/or stackings. Otherwise it is too easy to mistype because of a strong association to the wing. Here is a snippet from Truity on the Enneagram Type 5:

Enneagram Fives are defined by their desire to conserve their energy and to avoid being drained by engagement with the outside world. They focus on being knowledgeable and competent so that they can be as self-sufficient as possible.

Fives enjoy deepening their understanding of the world, expanding their intellect, while minimizing their physical and relationship needs.

Deepest Fear: Fives fear being overwhelmed by their own needs and the needs of others. To cope with this fear, they withdraw from relationships and maintain a minimalist lifestyle, focusing on the intellectual as an escape from the demands of the world.

Core Motivations: Fives are motivated by a desire to be competent and possess a strong understanding of their environment. This motivation drives them to a nearly constant state of learning and knowledge accumulation.

The synopsis above is consistent with the books on the subject. Contrast Type 5 with the synopsis on Type 4:

Fours are defined by their sense of being special and different from other people. They are often creative, and present a unique, distinctive persona to the people around them.

Fours experience a deep conflict in that they long to connect with others, but they feel that because they are so unusual, very few people are able to truly see them as they are.

Deepest Fear: Fours fear that they are flawed and are missing out on some basic aspect of happiness that other people have access to. To cope with this fear, they amplify what is different and special about themselves, looking for the niche in which they can truly be appreciated.

Core Motivations: Fours are motivated by their desire to express their individuality and to be unique. They do this through creative endeavors and by over identifying with the aspects of their personality that they view as lacking or deficient.

For good measure, I am also providing the snippet for Type 9:

Nines are defined by their desire to maintain a sense of inner peace and harmony, and to avoid conflict or other emotional disturbances. They are typically agreeable, calm, and easy to be around.

Nines rarely rock the boat, but they can be stubborn. While they typically go with the flow, they dislike being controlled and will respond with passive resistance if pushed too far.

Deepest Fear: Nines fear being too needy and thus pushing people away. They cope with this fear by submitting to the desires and agendas of the people around them: being agreeable in order to be included.

Core Motivations: Nines are motivated by their need for peace and harmony in their environment, and the desires to avoid conflict and deal with unpleasant emotions.

 

Fi filter perception like Ti filter perception I think.
To me, Ti is the justification of one action based on objectivity. The world makes sense to me and are legitimate because I see my action and other actions are legitimate because it is objective. You can easily manipulate a T based on that, I think
At least, this is the impression I have after knowing few INTPs

It would be very surprising I am not 5 honestly.
Maybe I am vengeful of people and need to conceptualize theory after lol

Accepting subjectivity or other subjectivity doesn't mean I can't be knowledgable and obsess by emotional detachment I think
That is why I love psychology for example.

I suggest you read that
I found it pretty useful

[INFP] - INFP type 5w4 - emotional or logical?

Hello, INFP type 5w4's! 1) I'd like to know how much you're identifying with Fi and/or Ti function? 2) Do you make most decisions on your values / feelings? 2a) Do you see it more due to your Fi dominant function or because of your 4 wing? 3) Do emotions/feelings/values always influence you...

www.personalitycafe.com

[INFP] - INFPs with a 5w4?

Is this a rare combination? I saw that usually, INTPs are 5w4. I have taken the test at least 10 times (I like to make absolutely SURE of my results). This was just an example of one of the results I got back. So here everything is distinct other than the difference between T and F. I looked...

www.personalitycafe.com

I hope arenai could choose better now


My truity test

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you were INFP 5. I've known another INFP 5 but she's not really very active on the forum anymore, unfortunately.

In the older enneagram book I read from the 90s, it was quite common for INFPs to be 5s. It seems like in some people's newer thought, they cannot see the possibility of it though.

I don't really bother with that--it's not my problem if people who aren't INFPs think that INFPs or other Fi types cannot be E5. I take Enneagram more literally maybe--being type 5 isn't about being some kind of genius or whatever, it's about a basic fear and a way of coping with life, and it's not like only NTs can have some fears and coping mechanisms.

I relate to type 9 in some ways and also type 4, but none of it really matches and I also know an INFP 9 who is way more stable and harmonious and acts differently than me under stress, though both of us do a thing where we isolate and distance ourselves sometimes when under stress I think and he is very understanding of that in me, which is nice--because some people can't seem to get it at all and just take it personal.

I've also known someone who tested as INFP 4 and she was way more in touch with her emotions than me and far more volcanic, though I am sure some 4s can not be volcanic? I mean, I can get volatile, but it's usually when I'm alone processing my emotions alone, not when I'm being struck with a situation and reacting to it. I have a hard time showing emotions as a reaction, which has lead people to criticize me of being robotic, but I actually do have pretty strong feelings if you get to know me.

 

The problem with putting people in boxes is that boxes have limits and finite boundaries. Take a set of boxes an apply fixed rules of application to a large body of individuals. You will eventually find outliers that don't cleanly fit in any one box. Is that the fault of the people or the box system being applied?

Boxes can be useful for categorizations, but not for containment.

 

And of course, I consider the boxes guidelines. I accept that certain type combinations are bound to be rarer than others, but none are impossible. I have gotten some grief for being a ENTP 5w6 from time-to-time (I'm pretty sure I know how it happened).

 

I am not sure if this thread was a fun exercise to ruminate on the possibilities of an INFP type correlating with the enneagram type 5. But if some are taking themselves seriously in concluding that it is possible, then it is an exercise in futility. The mere fact that failed attempts are being made to correlate the two systems should be an indicator that the unwillingness to compartmentalize the two as independent systems, is an antithesis. Enneagram type 5s are naturally detached and compartmentalize everything from making a distinction between acquaintance and friend to who they are at work vs home, even who they are with certain people. They know they are compartmentalizing. So if they find the subjecting interesting, they will see them independent of one another before considering a correlation. Read up on enneagram type 5 core-ness.

I get it, and let me say first and foremost there is no doubt that most here are indeed INFPs. It takes someone using extraverted intuition to disregard “what is” for “what could possibly be”. The life blood of the enneagram type 5 is to see things as they actually are. All one has to do is read the post in this thread to realize that arguments of enneagram type 5s correlating with INFP is actually how enneagram type 4s perceive things. Not to pick on any one person, but just my observation on what is being articulated in the respective arguments.

Post #2 - I don't believe in logic for the sake of objectivity. What else would logic be used for, except to come to an objective conclusion? The dictionary defines being objective as "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts." That requires logical thinking.

Post #10 - Thanks for sharing your story. It sound painful, but it also reads like the manifesto of an enneagram type 4, and certainly not something that an enneagram type 5 would share. I am reminded of a podcast where a renowned enneagram practitioner said, when it asked about feelings, an enneagram type 5 will tell you what they think about them.

Post #25 - Arguing that placing people in a box is indicative of the enneagram type 4's core motivation. They see and need to know they are special and different. Enneagram type 4s will argue the importance of going outside the box and not being pigeon-holed, which as you all know is a core need of the NF (Idealist) temperament. Read Keirsey and Linda Berens' work. NFPs do it naturally. They could care less whether their constructs defy basic principles, how the actual world sees things, logic or common sense.

What I find humorous when talking about outside the box is when you read C. G. Jung, he initially refused to endorse Katherine Briggs' work because of the limitation of claiming there were only 16 types. MBTI concluded this by using forced dichotomies. Jung said that he had no idea how many types could be considered using his theory, but it would start with a couple of hundred Both personality type and the enneagram sees personality as fluid, not static or either/or. But there are liberties that cannot be overlooked, namely the IFP type must have a distinctive use of their Fi function and enneagram type 5s must be considered by their core desires, fears and motivations. Reading a description of INFP or type 5 is merely a caricature laced with stereotypes.

Again, it is clear that most of you are using extraverted intuition to look at possibilities of the system which is your natural way of deciphering information, which means you are not taking in the actual information as presented by either system. Combine that with your Fi, wa la perfect perceived construct. Yet all one has to do is read C.G. Jung's definition of introverted feeling and the motivation of enneagram type 4 to know that, if a correlation is to be made, a conclusion will be made that they are parallel. Don't take my word for it. You can come to your own conclusions by reading up on the subjects to get an understanding of their respective basic principles. Besides, isn't that the basis for the thread that some of you are enneagram type 5? That is what they do naturally.

 

What I find humorous when talking about outside the box is when you read C. G. Jung, he initially refused to endorse Katherine Briggs' work because of the limitation of claiming there were only 16 types. MBTI concluded this by using forced dichotomies. Jung said that he had no idea how many types could be considered using his theory, but it would start with a couple of hundred Both personality type and the enneagram sees personality as fluid, not static or either/or. But there are liberties that cannot be overlooked, namely the IFP type must have a distinctive use of their Fi function and enneagram type 5s must be considered by their core desires, fears and motivations. Reading a description of INFP or type 5 is merely a caricature laced with stereotypes.

I just skimmed the rest of your post, so perhaps I missed it, but can you provide a source for this claim about Jung? It sounds interesting and I would like to read it myself. I'm surprised it doesn't come up more often in the arguments about Jung and I haven't read a ton of Jung, myself.

Which book is it from, or is it from an interview? Thanks.

I will just make a quick argument against INFP 5--which is although it is actually more of a stereotype maybe some NT and Ti types would prefer to propagate about 5s (that they are geniuses and only care for logic), the only real argument I can see against suggesting 5 and Fi are incompatible, is that Fi is a Judging function.

That means it is inherently applying some kind of judgment to perceiving information. It isn't "aesthetic" and detached as intuition and sensing would be.

But that would also prohibit Te and Ti doms from being fives, because they also aren't pure "detached" observers--the "observing" types would be the intuitives and the sensors.

But I don't think it makes sense to limit type 5s to purely aesthetic observers (rare, pure intuitives or sensors--if they exist), just because of the compulsion to observe. It could also be that an Ti or an Fi dom has that compulsion to observe because they do not feel that they have taken in the full picture, because they are judging doms and they aren't unbiased, and are self aware enough to know that?

Idk--and yeah, I didn't research this a bunch, but I don't think it means I must be another type--as I have other things I want to do today than this.

 

^ conclusion : INFP and enneagram 5 is not possible, and all the searchable information :

Google Search

is wrong.

/thread

 

No, the conclusion is unless someone is making the comparison on a rudimentary basis of using forced dichotomies such as the MBTI did decades ago, it is the only way to make the connection. Even then, I am not sure how that leap is being made. Nevertheless, then all you are referring to is the code I-N-F-P and to what that actually represents. Once you start using Jung's theory in referring to introverted feeling, then you are talking about personality type and not the rudimentary system MBTI created to make money from their assessment.

Again Jung did not endorse the MBTI system when it came out. If you refer to your type as one using Fi-Ne, Jung makes clear in his theory on how that works and what he considers a violation of those principles. I refer back to post #11 where I pasted Jung saying it is forbidden for another function to have equal value than the dominant. For all intense and purposes, you are referring to an INFP type that uses Fi? That seems to be a point that is missing in these arguments, so are you referring to merely a MBTI code, or Jung's theory?

 

https://anyintrovert.com/infp-5w4-everything-you-should-know/

INFP 5w4- Everything You Should Know


You probably know an INFP in your life. That’s perfectly normal. We all probably need one of them in our lives. However, contrary to what you may think, two INFPs are never the same. They can be completely different. Today, we’re focusing on the INFP 5w4.
Today, we’ll talk more about the INFP 5w4, how they are different, and what you can expect from them.
How the INFP 5w4 is Different From Typical INFPs
If you have read about the INFPs, you’ve probably heard that they are sweet, sensitive, and full of warmth. INFPs are also more likely to be type 4s. This is completely different here. First, this INFP is enneagram 5.
Thus, they are less emotional and sensitive. They are more logical and take criticism better. While INFPs are nicknamed the mediators, INFP 5w4s is nothing of that sort. They are generally more assertive and stick to their values.
Because their wing is still type 4, they might still exhibit some of the natural tendencies of the INFP. However, this will be to a lesser extent.
INFP 5w4s are more likely to be INFP-Ts.
Here’s a table that shows the main differences between the INFP 5w4s and stereotypical INFPs.

INFP 5w4	Typical INFPs
More Logical	More Emotional
More Analytical	More Creative
More interested in being self-sufficient	More interested in finding their self-identity

Strengths of the INFP 5w4
1. Logic+Emotions
INFP 5w4s have a good grasp of emotions and logic. First, the INFP is a feeler. This means they genuinely feel and understand the problems people might face. Backed by their introverted function (Fi), INFPs mirror how people feel perfectly.
Because they have type 5 as their dominant Enneagram type, they are also thinkers. So, this creates an internal struggle. INFP 5w4s often have to choose what to use for every decision they make.
It can be difficult, but it makes them more balanced in the long run.
2. Independent
Type 5s are independent people. They want to live life on their terms. Just like type 8s, they resist being controlled by others and are non-conventional.
INFP 5w4s are very similar. They want to be independent. That is their core desire. By being self-sufficient, they avoid being a burden to anyone else.
3. Creative
INFPs are creative. This is also present in the INFP 5w4. This combines well with the analytical skills of type 5.
Thus, they are both creative and problem-solvers. So, while INFPs are known for their writing or interest in music, INFP 5w4s also dabble into science, law, and other related professions.
4. Observant
Type 5 is known to be very observant. Because of this, they find it easier to read and understand people’s intentions. INFPs are natural mediators. To be a mediator, you have to understand the perspectives of others.
When this combines with their Enneagram type, you get someone who is very observant. However, they are observant because they are curious and want to explore new situations and ideas.
5. Less Sensitive
With less pull towards emotions, comes less sensitivity. INFP 5w4s are less sensitive to constructive feedback and criticism.
Thus, they can handle much more than your normal INFP. This has its pros. First, this personality type can make progress faster as they will be more adaptable.
They can also get along with both feelers and thinkers as they are not easily offended. It’s a big win for them.
6. Need for Self-Sufficiency
As earlier stated, the core desire of INFP 5w4 is to achieve and maintain self-sufficiency. They want to be able to take care of their needs and those who depend on them.
Thus, they seek out careers that can help them achieve their goals. While INFPs typically follow their passions despite low monetary rewards, this INFP will be more conscious of their finances and savings.
This follows the financial behaviors of type 5.
Weaknesses of the INFP 5w4
1. Fearful
Type 5 belongs to the fear triad. This means that the first emotion they access is usually fear. Combined with their need to be self-sufficient, you get a very fearful person.
They will be less inclined to take risks or have physical conflicts. This type will avoid trouble as much as they can. Their fear can also lead to other issues such as paranoia and anxiety.
2. Detached/Self-Absorbed
Type 4 and type 5 are super introverts. INFPs are also super introverts. This creates the problem of being isolated or detaching themselves. Type 5s are known to detach themselves from their environment and their loved ones.
This will the same for this personality type. If their wing is especially strong, they’ll also struggle with being self-absorbed. However, it won’t be as big of a problem for them as becoming detached.
3. Stubborn
INFP leads with introverted feeling (Fi). This means that most of their actions and emotions are based on their personal convictions and values.
This is also present in the INFP 5w4s. Combined with their need to be independent, this quality can make them extremely stubborn. This is usually visible when their values or thinking are threatened.
4. Low Work-Ethic
Finally, type 5 and type 4 are not especially known for their work ethic. This is heightened in the INFP 5w4. So, while they might be creative and more analytical, having the energy to turn their ideas into something tangible can be a problem.
If left unchecked, they might never reach their full potential.
Growth Tips for the INFP 5w4

• Somtimes, taking risks or standing up for yourself is important. Being fearful has never won any battles
• Working hard is non-negotiable if you want to become self-sufficient. So, get to work
• Sometimes, even your strongest beliefs or values can be wrong. Be more open-minded.

 

I took another test just now, and it came back 5w6/2

 

Just took another unrelated enneagram test, it came in as
9w2&4&5 (3 way tied)

1;77
2;69
3;54
4;69
5;69
6;66
7;57
8;46
9;77

So my current record is : 1, 5, 5, 4, 5, 9

 

I wished Helen Palmer had more information on the web. Her books are my go to when studying the enneagram. But there are a plethora of websites that can help with the enneagram, and Personality Pathways may help some of you. There are a number of sites that explain go into mistyping. You will see this site offers seven reasons which for the most part are consistent with the others that when determining your type in the enneagram, steer clear from reading the personality traits, and focus on the why or motivation of why a type behaves as they do. Here are some mistypes:

At first glance it seems pretty unlikely to confuse the stern, principled One with the emotional, dramatic Four. But here’s the thing: Both types are connected with a line in the Enneagram that draws them to each other in certain situations. Highly stressed Ones can feel very much like unhealthy Fours: Their inner critic pushes them towards feelings of melancholy, depression and alienation that are quite common with Fours. Coming from the other side, healthy and mature Fours sometimes recognize themselves in the Teacher personality because they have integrated the One’s discipline and moderation into their personality.

But that’s not the default state of either type. A good example of how fundamentally differently both types approach life is in how they deal with their feelings: For Ones, responsibility comes first, dealing with your feelings later (if at all). Fours however feel like they need to figure out their feelings first before they can take care of their responsibilities.

It’s true that both can seem perfectionistic and picky about themselves as well as others. But Fours become irritated if things don’t feel right – if it hurts their aesthetic or personal sensibilities – while Ones become critical when things simply aren’t “like they are supposed to be”.

One last thing that clearly sets the two types apart: When Fours get irritated, they withdraw and cut off communication. When Ones get angry, they’ll confront you with their opinion because they need to set things right.

Ones and Fives rarely misidentify themselves for one another. If they do, it’s mostly Ones who see their highly rational and sometimes impersonal way of thinking as traits of a Five. But a good way to discern the two is by remembering that they are in two different Groups*. Ones are from the instinctive or body group. Their way of thinking serves primarily to strengthen their already established beliefs and that which can be put into practice. Fives however truly live in their head: Their way of thinking doesn’t need to be practical at all.

In other words: Ones start from a general principle to arrive at a specific application, while Fives take specific, real life data to form more theoretical principles out of it. They are also much more comfortable to throw those principles out the window again if they find better evidence – something that Ones, who live for their principles, are very reluctant to do.

As with all types that are next to each other on the Enneagram, Fours and Fives don’t get so much misidentified but rather confused about which one is their main type and which one their wing. Since we talk about wings in more detail somewhere else, we will just mention the main difference between the two types for now.

What makes Fives and Fours appear so similar is their heightened individualism and their tendency to withdraw. They are both on the introverted side of things and can both become rather eccentric. But there’s one area that helps draw a clear line in the sand: which part of them plays the bigger role in their day-to-day lives. For the Four it’s their heart. For the Five it’s their brain.

Fours belong to the Heart Group*. They are emotionally volatile – Fours need to express their feelings and for people to respond to them emotionally as well. Fives are people of the mind, which is why they belong to the Head Group**: While they also have deep emotions, they usually keep them to themselves, detach from them, study them and, most of all, prefer if people communicate rationally with them. Fives become uncomfortable when they have to deal with too many emotions of the other person – Fours are right in their element.

When both types go to dark places (which, truth be told, they are more comfortable with than most others), Fours turn towards emotional pain: heartbreak, childhood disappointments, „life is woe“ – while Fives go to abstract pain: Inner emptiness, the meaninglessness of life, the great existential void.

Heart or mind? This is what tells these two types apart

 

So the testing process is predictably unreliable and/or untrustworthy, so don't get hung up on what a test tells you, or what results mean what when comparing/contrasting?

 

I have found that, for approximately 2/3rds of people, the tests either tell you what types you are likely not, or at least they help narrow down the options, but I agree, many of them are notoriously unreliable due to blatant stereotypes, poor construction, and the mercurial moods of the people taking them.

 

Here is my conclusion to this thread. Based on claims that INFPs can be enneagram type 5s based on both being introverted types, then I will concede you are correct. Yes INFPs can be type 5s in the enneagram as well as ISFP, ISFJ, ISTJ INFJ, INTJ, INTP and ISTP due to having introverted attitudes.

With that said, additionally since Carl G. Jung says there are no pure extraverted/introverted types and because the MBTI Type II assessment measures introversion/extraversion on a scale, anyone whose barely on the extraverted side, can be enneagram type 5s as well when taking into consideration having a social stacking. There you have it from my point of view, all 16 MBTI types can be a type in the enneagram system, since it only means you have to introvert.

 

@WickerDeer mentioned another INFP user in post #23, I think I know who she was referring to. If I was to think and name an MBTI-INFP 5, she would be them.

When she would post, I sensed it often came from a place of detachment. She was quite independent, but not fierce about it, she just was. Other INFP 4s aggressively defend against being controlled, which I surmise is more about their individualism rather than a direct desire for independence. Every so often, she showed a side that was very human. It was clear she was a very emotional person that also spent a long time studying how she felt, but she wasn't emotionally expressive. I can only imagine her detachment was not just a distancing from feelings, but a strong feeling in itself.

I think more likely than not, an INFP would mistype themselves as a 5, but in my eyes, surely she had to have been correctly typed.

 

@WickerDeer mentioned another INFP user in post #23, I think I know who she was referring to. If I was to think and name an MBTI-INFP 5, she would be them.

When she would post, I sensed it often came from a place of detachment. She was quite independent, but not fierce about it, she just was. Other INFP 4s aggressively defend against being controlled, which I surmise is more about their individualism rather than a direct desire for independence. Every so often, she showed a side that was very human. It was clear she was a very emotional person that also spent a long time studying how she felt, but she wasn't emotionally expressive. I can only imagine her detachment was not just a distancing from feelings, but a strong feeling in itself.

I think more likely than not, an INFP would mistype themselves as a 5, but in my eyes, surely she had to have been correctly typed.

I don't know who you're referring to-- @attic was who I was referring to. I think she was typed as E5 and I always felt I could relate with her a lot--her interest in nature, plants, sustainability, mythology, art and very much enjoyed her being a member here, though I think she is busy irl and I hope that she is doing well. She was always one of my favorite members.

 

But I really do wonder why when I read an older book about Enneagram that was written in the 90s or earlier, I think...it specifically listed INFP as commonly type 5 along with 4 and I don't remember what else...maybe 9.

But now it's like some people seem unable to even imagine it, even though there are various INFP who do type themselves as 5.

I also remember that INFJ were frequently E4 according to this book too, and now I feel like the default assumption circling around MBTI communities is that INFP are basically E4 or something.

Personally, I relate to 9 a lot, but I never get 9 on the tests...and I also know an E9 and I really don't think we're the same type (I also knew an E4 IXFP and she also seemed to be pretty different than me). I would normally identify more with 4 based on stereotypes or E9, but I also have a lot of head-type qualities. The ISFJ gut type who loaned me the enneagram books to read used to have her grandmother running Enneagram circles through the church, so she grew up around a lot of enneagram and the ISFJ immediately blurted out that she thought I was a 5--that she could tell before I ever looked at the book or the test. That's also the first result I did get on a test, I believe--it was E 5w6.

I don't think E5 makes you some kind of genius, but I've been incredibly unhealthy at various times in my life and it's helpful for me to know what I might be like at unhealthy levels and how to get out of them, which is basically where I type E5 from too...because I've been in some really dark places.

I don't think of it as some enneagram I desire to be or something, which I feel like is constantly projected onto INFPs that we all want to be INFJs and we all want to be this or that, and everyone who's ever mistyped is an Fi dom. I'm just kind of over these dumb stereotypes and I think they say more about other people's bias than about INFPs or Fi doms.

But any type that's fetishized or glorified will end up having people questioning if anyone is in that type, and I feel like E5 is more like that now and people now cannot see how a feeler could be a head type, I guess.

In some ways I do feel like maybe a gut type--as a kid I was much more relaxed and in tune with my body, whereas as a teen and older I got more in-my-head and also became more introverted.

 

Alright--this should probably be somewhere else, but I made a vocaroo this morning and I was surprised by how it went towards enneagram and it made me think about enneagram.

Basically, I'm talking about my dream I had last night, and I actually start crying on the vocaroo which is unusual, but I find it kind of fascinating.

This is what an INFP E5 might sound like, or maybe not--maybe I'm mistyped mbti or Enneagram. The woman who I talked most about E with basically felt like my physical behavior and talking though really reminded her of E5 and she typed me that way before even knowing I was into Enneagram. She used to do enneagram workshops with her family, for her church and she said that she instantly thought I was E5.

I can analyse it later but it's basically about the isolation, social isolation and possibly compartmentalizing emotions, if you want to look at the way I was thinking in the dream (which is probably a very slowed down and minimized thought process, since dreams don't allow for your full thought processes usually...in my experience)

And I also ugly cry and sniffle a lot after I start crying unexpectedly. Being a feeler and having weird relationship with your emotions is funny.

Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

Vocaroo is a quick and easy way to share voice messages over the interwebs.

vocaroo.com

 

I feel strange after listening your audio

I was actually at my class with my classmate laughing at a joke
And I start wondering why I was putting a lot of my energy people apart from
me.

I just know sometimes I feel bad or digusted people to know me. People dont disgust me but my brain has this whole disgust to have an intimate relationship with people I dont know well. It revulses me

I dont think it has to do with my self confidence

I have my best friend who I see once a week.
The other person I know are online.

But I guess I just had some really bad experiences with my family that drove me to this pathological social malfunction.

I dont know if I am 5. But I think theories and knowledge and are a shelter to me. I cant be decieved by it, it is objective. Theories do not hurt your feeling. Theories do not try to dominate you

@WickerDeer

I hope you are fine because You seem to be exhausted on your audio and it scared me

 

I hope you are fine because You seem to be exhausted on your audio and it scared me

Oh thanks! Sorry--yeah, my audio is kind of intimate.

I think I'm SX instinct, and I tend to actually get very intimate with strangers. Not physically--like I don't have casual sex or anything--I've been celibate for a decade, but I tend to be very open, to overshare, and to like to be candid. I may have ADHD or something, and it could be part of that.

I just woke up so I probably sounded sort of exhausted, plus I'd just had a nightmare about a bus sinking.

If you want to hear the update--my friend messaged me back and said she was in Europe! I was so excited! I think if you listen to that vocaroo you will see I am fine even if I do overthink things and feel a broad range of emotion...from crying in the morning to feeling extremely happy and it's not even noon yet and I've basically done nothing much yet. I am a pretty emotional person--I sort of wonder if I'm an ENFP or some other type--I'm sure people think I'm an SFP as well, and I've had people tell me they thought I was an ISFJ, though I doubt it.

Don't listen if you feel exhausted, but I am fine and I did another vocaroo sort of diary entry sort of thing--monologues are also kind of annoying as I am not talking to anyone so I just kind of go on about whatever I'm thinking about.

Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

Vocaroo is a quick and easy way to share voice messages over the interwebs.

vocaroo.com

 

I also have to say--the crying thing was weird--I keep that stuff because it's fascinating to me, but if I was talking to someone in person it would have been awkward and I probably wouldn't have started crying.

I have to be alone a lot of times to access and process my feelings, and I spend a lot of time alone.

I'm fine @lecomte --just letting you know. Sometimes people think that I am in some very bad place, even when I am normally just all over the place, so just wanting to let you know and the vocaroo, I was going to put somewhere else, but decided to post here since you felt concerned.

But it's more about dopamine and ADHD and feeling motivated and wanting to travel, and also being happy for friends.

 

I also have to say--the crying thing was weird--I keep that stuff because it's fascinating to me, but if I was talking to someone in person it would have been awkward and I probably wouldn't have started crying.

I have to be alone a lot of times to access and process my feelings, and I spend a lot of time alone.

I'm fine @lecomte --just letting you know. Sometimes people think that I am in some very bad place, even when I am normally just all over the place, so just wanting to let you know and the vocaroo, I was going to put somewhere else, but decided to post here since you felt concerned.

But it's more about dopamine and ADHD and feeling motivated and wanting to travel, and also being happy for friends.

I think there is no problem.

Do you think you are 5 because of the way you compartementalize your feeling? I didnt really understand

 

From my basic knowledge of Enneagram, our type is determined by our core motivations and fear, no? I think it's separate from our behaviours.

While there are tendencies for certain MBTI types to be certain Enneagram types, I think those are just correlation, and not causation.

If we associate each of the Enneagram types with certain MB types / cognitive functions, then naturally, some combinations will be impossible, because we are essentially coupling two different systems. Or, we are basically playing MBTI in Enneagram, forcefully turning the latter into the former.

For example, if we associate Enneagram 4 with Fi then of course, only INFPs and ISFPs would be that type. Any other combination would be invalid by default. And if this is the case, then why do we need two different systems at the first place, if we know that all type 4 would be INFPs or ISFPs? It's redundant.

With that said, I believe that personality typing is just a tool for self development. We utilise it for personal growth, and are free to use it in any manner that could be beneficial. No one really cares whether you are typed accurately or not. At the end of the day, if an INFP believes that he is a 5, and it helps with his/her development, then so be it. He has the canvas and he decides what he wants to paint.

Though, one thing that stands true is the statistics- most INFPs are type 4 or 9. While outliers are possible, if you start seeing it happening so often, it's worth raising some questions.

 

@lecomte
Sorry for my late reply. My concentration hasn't been too good lately and I got overwhelmed by your longish post so I waited a few days before trying to reply to your post.