Just when knows that person is not sympathetic or also selfish , i think its like the mirror !

Its about me , i don't know what about another INFJs .

 

Every personality type can be selfish, there might even be some INFJ that are selfish. Something I think that could be common for INFJ is that they can appear selfish to others, or themselves. I've struggled with this a lot, since I don't want to be selfish at all - thinking just telling about myself was selfish. Being selfish means you only care about yourself, you are only concerned for yourself instead of others. Or in a situation: If you choose your own need over others, that is considered selfish/egotistical. This could be tricky though when someone wants you to do something that you don't want to. I don't think someone is selfish for not wanting to do something, that's something different.

 

I can be selfish, sure, just like everyone else. It can be difficult for me at times though too. I've had to work at asserting better boundaries with people (and that's still a work in progress). I'm generally the friend that people know they can come to with an hour long phone rant, to pick them up somewhere, to write a paper for them, to stay up with them if they want company even though I had declared a bedtime that I then don't stick to, etc. I wouldn't call any of that saint like though...it's just what makes me happy most of the time, so long as it isn't abused (which it can be, hence the working to assert better boundaries). I feel more depth in my relationships that way, and I crave that. I guess it makes me feel like I live in a better, more romantic world too, and sometimes it's hard for me to separate myself from other's pain or misfortune, especially close friends and family, and so I do genuinely want to help often times.

 

As INFJs, so other oriented and often with at least a good sized dollop of perfectionist tendencies - we see what is idealized as "good" by those persons and things around us and we ache to be that. We ache to help, to love, to be perfect. We're introduced to the glorified traits of icons like Jesus. But no one is or was perfect - the faults and shortcomings of people that are put on pedestals and idealized are glossed over and ignored. Then we see this unattainable goal - inhuman goal - of complete altruism - a goal we fall short of time and again, and then we crucify ourselves.

I think there is a healthy level of self-interest that every person should have, and this is arrived at through many an unfortunate experience, as well as using objectivity and logic and compassion when dealing with others who also struggle with this mindset.

I ask - who benefits the most from someone who is endlessly forgiving, endlessly selfless, from perpetuating this ideal? The people who are incapable of it, who take advantage of it, who thrive on it. Not everyone deserves 10 chances (this is when we INFJs doorslam). It's not always bad to take care of yourself, to want things for yourself, to have standards and preferences and desires. You're a person, and it's OK for you to have wants and needs and to sometimes take care of those instead of the wants and needs of others. You're deserving of kindness and compassion and fulfillment as those to whom you would give it. No one is entitled to your self-sacrifice.

 

HUMANITY is inherently selfish. Actually, all living things are...it has to be that way for survival.

Unless you've heard more than three people (unconnected to each other) that you're selfish, I wouldn't worry about it. Being too selfless is just as unhealthy as being too selfish...

 

It's too bad that you think like that. Love is a in essence a total absence of the *me* so now you have a problem.

 

Infj descriptions seem to focus on the "nice things" and the female INFJs.
Context and life experiences can make you selfish, and that isnt a bad thing at all.

 

You sound like you're beating yourself up over every little action that you perceive to be self-serving. You have the right to post a thread in a forum. Why on earth would that be selfish?

Selfishness is adherence to one's own needs at the expense of others'.

I often struggle with knowing when to prioritize my own or the other person's needs. I usually find the latter prevails though.

 

You sound like you're beating yourself up over every little action that you perceive to be selfish. You have the right to post a thread in a forum. Why on earth would that be selfish?

Selfishness is adherence to one's own needs at the expense of others'.

I struggle with knowing when to prioritize my own or the other person's needs. I usually find the latter prevails though.

I suppose I am struggling with this idea of being selfish as a result of a very recent rejection.

I really wanted to get to know this person, but I was also interested in more. She drew a very clear line that she had no interest in anything further than a friendship.... but "casual" anything never really pans out for me.

I have tried, in the past, to be a "good friend" with someone that I, also, wanted more with. It lasted for a very long time and I only ever had a broken heart as a result of my "good intentions".

Stupidly enough, I was going to do the same thing with this, maybe, friendship that would be established, but I was already starting to feel those same pangs and knots because of MY want, MY desire; it was becoming pretty apparent that it wasn't so much about her when asking her to do things with me....

I started feeling guilty, so, absurdly, I told her the truth... now I feel like a liar to boot; that my expression of interest was untrue and simply a result of selfishness. But I knew, over time, I would become hurt, angry, jealous simply for her living her life and not having me as a centerpiece in it and she is such a good, kind person with lots of potential to do good things, that I didn't want to be weight.... that's assuming I ever even became a blip on her radar in any capacity.... which is a selfish thought to have.

I just started thinking about it. Then I realized how much time I spend thinking in general and how little time I spend trying to get to know other people. I "watch" at a distance before ever approaching anyone, ever. In groups, I sink into myself. I had a conversation just last night with my roommate and told them about my preference to observe someone before approaching them. I was told that it was unfair to do that and make assessments based on how that person MIGHT be before ever actually talking to them... that brought back that same word: Selfish.

I feel selfish posting this topic because, well, I'm basically indulging MYSELF to see what other's responses will be.

Perspicacious really struck a chord with me too; it described me almost too well.

 

@XperimntNterror

You can't help it if those are your feelings. From what I can gather, it's potentially more damaging to continue in a relationship (in this case, a friendship), where your primary interest has been romantic and you are unable to be satisfied with friendship. It's both damaging to you, as you struggle with your painful feelings and unfair to her because you don't see yourself as her friend ultimately and I imagine she'd rather have your true friendship than what she has right now.

I don't think you're selfish for that, but it would probably be better for you to be honest with yourself for both your sakes. You might want to try to disengage from her, so that you both play a much smaller role in one another's lives. Maybe some time your feelings will change, you'll move on and then you'll feel that the kind of person she is is the kind of person you'd be able to be friends with since your feelings have abated. Maybe not, and if not that's OK too.

 

@XperimntNterror
If I'm understanding this right....You desire her, but you don't want to intrude on her wish not to get in a relationship, even though it hurts you to keep your distance.

The desire is selfish, sure, but we all get those feelings. Emotions are typically selfish because they're keyed to keeping us out of harm's way and meeting our needs, sometimes at the expense of other people or things in our environment (which is why I say some selfishness is necessary for survival. Heck, the simple act of eating is fulfilling a selfish need as you're probably killing something, plant or animal, to fulfill it, and hunger is the emotion that keys you in on that need...but you have to eat to live, as does everything.) I would venture to say your strong emotional reaction here means she represents a strong need of yours that hasn't been fulfilled, maybe more than one.

You chose the unselfish route of respecting her boundaries, which says you're not selfish as a person. I'd say that's probably smart, too, as forcing a relationship never got anyone anywhere. But I'd also say don't go so far as to deny that desire entirely, and the need it represents. Acknowledge it, and find some other way to meet it that doesn't cross her boundaries. The solution may not involve her at all, even. Maybe it means you need/want a relationship in general. Who knows? I'm not you, so I don't know.

As for the watching before diving in thing...that isn't selfish. It's just different interaction styles. HSP and introversion both have that trait. Assuming can be bad, because it leads to miscommunication, but I'm not sure I'd put that in the selfish category so much as the causes-more-headache-than-its-worth one...

 

You would be correct: I do desire her.... but what I really desire is a soulmate. But she isn't the one.

I had to tell her how I really felt even though it seemed kinda ridiculous doing it... I didn't want to forfeit opportunities to continue spending time with her, but realized having those opportunities was much more important to me than her (she forgot about a lunch and then cancelled it after re-confirming it... I'm sure she could see where things were leading as much as I could). So, yeah, I closed that door with her.... but really wish I didn't have to.

Thanks, I do feel a bit better about the decision now and less like a selfish jerk.

 

You're welcome. :happy:

 

I'm not selfish; but I think I'm being selfish if I ever do something for myself or ask anyone to do something for me. So those things seldom ever happen.

 

I know one INFJ and she is really selfish. She never thinks about others. In response to someone who posted ahead of me, I dont think every type can be selffish. I am an INFP and I cant be selfish. If I know going hurt someone, I cant act that way.

 

Imo, all humans are inherently selfish. It may manifest differently depending on the individual and personality types may have some connection to how the individual's specific brand of selfishness manifests.

 

Quit it with all the personal attacks and derailing. You only get one warning.

 

Choosing your mate should be the most selfish decision you ever make. You HAVE to be selfish. You are going to become completely one with this person. Why should you compromise? Compromise comes after you've already decided on your mate.

Aside from romantic relationships, everyone gets to a point in their life (no matter what type) when they decide to either live for others (for the most part) or to live for themselves. It's always obvious to me which one a person has chosen after enough interaction. And no, it's not always Fe = selfless and Fi = selfish. It's dependent on the individual.

 

I think the better question would be "are all humans inherently selfish?"

Economics is based on the idea that everyone is selfish and just trying to maximise their own utility function (crude way of explaining economic theory, but true).

Then comes the question why do people do things that have no benefit to them, and one answer is that people's 'utility function' are not as simple as classic economic theory presumes. A basic example is that a person's utility function also includes happiness of SO and children.


You can get more complicated than that, but the idea is that you do nice things for others because than they are more likely to do nice things for you or because you get 'warm fuzzies' when you do nice things for others.

This is a much debated area of economics, but an area I find very interesting.

 

True, and this is something I spend more time pondering than is probably healthy to do, people are inclined to follow the path of least resistance and fulfilling a "me" specific need or want is much easier than attempting to do the same for a neighbor. I often wonder why we follow that path because when I envision a world opposite of that, it seems like a much nicer place to be. If everyone cared for the person next to them, everything would kinda come full circle.

I suppose I was specific about the INFJ type since I identify as one and so much of what is written about people of this type paints a portrait of this utterly selfless being... kinda ridiculous... and I OFTEN feel much more selfish in my relations to the world around me.

 

There is a study out there somewhere that happier people are nicer to others than unhappy people. So you could say the best thing you can do for another person is to make sure you're happy, too. Pain turns our focus inward naturally.

But how that fits into another study where helping other people can cure a bad mood, I dunno... Chicken and egg thing?

 

Personally, I don't think it's so much that we're prone to selfishness, as we're prone to having ridiculously high expectations of ourselves (and others!) - this can lead to a perception of normal, healthy self-interest as some kind of dangerous narcissism. I've worried about it, too, sometimes. But you really have to remember that looking after yourself and protecting your own interests - up to a certain point - is normal, and healthy. There is a healthy middle ground between selfishness and martyrdom, you know?

TLR - I don't think we're necessarily selfish, I think we're just much harder on ourselves than most if we don't think about others all. the. damn. time.

 

also, to add: if you're really worried, maybe ask a close friend if they think you consider others enough, but only if you're prepared for an honest answer. None of my close friends or family have ever accused me of being selfish - quite the opposite - that's why I'm more inclined to chalk it up to our propensity for being epically down on ourselves.

 

I don't have any to ask....

The more I think about why I even created this topic, the more I realize it was to get some acceptance; for someone to tell me that I'm OK. I suppose that's why I'm here... I don't have anyone else to talk to at all.

Gonna go way off topic, but I've got nothing else to do and your comment has got me to thinking... as always.

I'm a very, very lonely person. I'm the first-born of a young single mother (my parents divorced when I was only 18 months). I was never a popular kid or really even noticed, for the most part. I don't relate well to other males since I so much more emotional than what is "expected". I never go out really. I work in an office and my job gives me a lot of autonomy. I don't have a subordinate or co-worker; it's just me. I can go weeks and have virtually no interaction with anyone outside of emails. The office is a predominantly male environment, so I frequently feel inferior.

This girl was rather beautiful; far beyond what someone of my average appearance would suspect would show ANY interest. But I'm "me" and I ruined it because I'm not what people expect of me. I appear to be very calm and serious; unapproachable, but I'm actually quite lively if included in conversations and also very awkward.

I've had many other girls ask ME out that I would have not expected to have interest, but, again, they assume I'm something else... usually that I'm "James Bond" and will be "fun" for the night... until we meet up and I actually try to get to know them because I'm thinking that's what their interest is. I certainly do not see myself as even slightly attractive. I usually see other guys as being better prospects for that sort of thing.

I have a few roommates, but we never hang out; I just see them in passing. One of them suggested posting an online profile on a dating site, but I don't like the idea; I'd have to post pictures and I have no idea what to say about myself that would "sell" me to someone viewing the page.

I don't feel like I have much to offer, so I want to pour out as much love, care and support to someone I take interest in... but I'm afraid of them getting to know me. I'm not particularly fond of my childhood and don't really have any good memories. I'm distant from my family. I don't feel I have any good qualities or much of anything else to offer them. I'm boring: I like documentaries and reading up on subjects that interest me, but I'm not an expert on anything.

I sort of feel aimless; like I'm just floating while waiting for the inevitable end. I don't particularly enjoy my job. It feels meaningless to me and they may even close our studio at the end of the year; I have no idea what I will do if that happens.

Sometimes I think of just going and finding something working with people that would maybe provide me with some sense of comfort, like a homeless shelter or something like that.

I never just "fit". Times I've been invited to do things with friends I have made, I always end up looking like an idiot to the other friends I get introduced to. I don't consider myself to be very funny or witty or even intelligent, so when I try to include myself and be social, I'm often given odd looks. I also seem to naturally intimidate people... which is extremely bizarre since I'm a pretty skinny, tall narrow guy, but lots of other guys seem to be put off by me naturally or hesitant to approach me.

Yeah, so, I don't have any friends. Christmas is coming and I will be home alone with no one to spend it with. I'm not meaning to sound like a victim... it's just the truth. I'm here, using this place, to feed my self-esteem... more selfish.

I started typing out all this thinking it would help me feel better, but it doesn't really.

Blah...

 

I think the fact that you feel guilty about being selfish already says a lot of about how selfish you really are. I think truly selfish people (which doesn't necessarily make them bad people, just looking after their own interests) generally don't feel guilty about it, as they simply don't care as much.

I often feel guilty about making selfish decisions, but then when I discuss it with my entp boyfriend he can't even get his head around why I would see my decision as selfish and even if it is, why on earth I would feel guilty about it. I think perception and the idea of what selfish behaviour is has a lot to do with it. For me choosing what I want often already feels as selfish, even if I've considered what the effect of my decision is and weighing it against other options. He just sees that as a well-thought-through decision.

And also trying to look at it objectively, realizing how humans are generally wired/instincts and for me also more recently MBTI to understand a bit more about how different people are wired, has not only helped me with understanding others, but also how my actions affect others and why you can be more selfish around some people than others. Which sounds horrible, but I just mean some people have more of a tendency to look out for their own interests before anyone else's, and will be more understanding if you do the same. Hell, some people will only respect you if you look out for your own interests every now and again.

 

Nothing you have said makes you sound selfish. you do sound incredible lonely.
*hugs*

 

<hugs>

I'm not sure what to say, other than keep trying and reaching out to people. As @Dewymorning says, that doesn't sound selfish, only lonely. We're social animals, even introverts need people to talk to once in a while, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Do you a have hobby? Maybe there's a club or a class you can go to to start meeting people. Or volunteer opportunities if you want to help people--there's often a lot as Christmas season rolls around.

 

Not really... any more. I used to draw (I drew that lion that's in my avatar pic) for hours and hours, daily. I didn't a lot in the way of encouragement as a child and I just don't have the built-in reservoir to self-encourage. I'm very dependent on outside encouragement or I just kind of wither. Not a happy truth, but still truth.

I've considered doing lots of things and just never do them. I've thought of attending a church service just for the sake of doing something that doesn't seem too bizarre to do alone. I live in the city and literally have tons of places that I could WALK to for social activity, but I'm too afraid to go by myself...

I was seeing a therapist, but didn't feel like it was helping me as much as I would've liked it to. Maybe I expect too much too soon, though. I'm certainly difficult and stubborn, if nothing else.

I frequently think the idea of taking an art class or something just for the sake of doing something would be helpful... but I think, more likely, I would go and still not "fit" and it'd be just one more environment to be uncomfortable in.

I really want to meet someone to share my life with, but I don't have much to share . It's a horrible catch-22 for me. I seriously don't need much. Just that they are true...

Maybe I need a mother... :/

 

Everyone is naturally selfish- I just think that INFJs are more sensitive to it than many other types

Speaking for me, at least, I'm very spiritual, critical of myself, and sensitive about how I treat others. These things make me feel reeeeaaallly bad if I act just a tinge selfish. I might even imagine that I'm being selfish when no one else thinks so. I think that we are, if mature and yadda yadda yadda, very selfless in most cases. I feel selfish almost all the time unless I'm having a pity party... Even then, though.... Pity parties are selfish...... Gah!

 

I think you need to study psychology \=

 

@Aizar makes some really good points and suggestions.

I'm actually interested in seeing about finding a psychologist that's trained for PTSD patients. I remember, when I was young, being forced into seeing therapists first by the state (after a suicide attempt) and then by my family. The whole experience of therapy was horrible for me. It seemed like hours of being put on the spot. Perhaps it was just the wrong therapists, though. I like the idea of feeling comfortable with someone who is legally bound to keep your secrets.

Do you have a pet? In some of my darker times, I have to say that sometimes my cats have been the only things keeping me afloat. Both the motivation to take care of them, and the fact that they enjoy my company even when I feel like maybe no one else does, or I don't. They cuddle in my lap when I'm lonely or sad, they follow me around the house and want to play when I'm not, and they curl up beside me to sleep. I don't have the patience for taking care of a dog, but I know that dog owners feel the same way I do about my cats. Pets just seem to be good company, and can improve your health and the quality of your life.

Online friends aren't lesser friends either, there's whole forums of people who feel awkward and different as you, who will understand what you're going through, and who can appreciate the real you. Keep using the forums, participate in various threads and share your experience, talk to someone on their visitor message, or exchange IM usernames or emails or blog urls etc. Maybe you'll meet some people you really enjoy talking to, and you might find out someone lives nearby. Even if they don't, I've made road trips and plane flights to go hang out with friends I've made online. If you don't have particular ties to one place, you might find that it's worth it to try moving to a new place near an online friend who's company you enjoy. I got a job near one of my INTP friends once that I met online, I moved in with one of her best friends who needed a room-mate, and a lot of my favorite social memories are because of her and the people she introduced me to. You never know

Be careful about the online profile thing though... it's ultimately your choice, but I've found that in the end it's best to be "real". Because there is nothing wrong with the "real" you, and there are people out there who will find the "real" you to be exactly the kind of person they want to invest their feelings in. Wasting time with people who think you're something else, who want something else, but were mislead to thinking you were going to be that...it's not really fun for either person involved.

 

Don't have any pets... I'm kind of partial to "exotic" animals... which would either be illegal to own or too much of a pain to actually keep in the city I do love animals though.

I agree about the profile too, but my roommate says I need to "live a little" and that it might do me some good to have a series of bad dates or ones that just don't turn out like you might've hoped. Maybe I'd learn to be less self-critical.... but I'm not too sure about that though

I like this place. I'll continue snooping and lurking and maybe I can be as helpful as you and Aizar have been to me.

Thanks to both of you for letting me be selfish some (and to everyone else that shared a comment, too) and indulging my need to be noticed a little.