oh yes. I mean it’s more frustrating when things turn out wrong, plans get cancelled in the last minute, people being unreliable. also it’s very tough for us if we flake on somebody ourselves and behave unreliably.

I’ve learned to accept the way people do things, as long as they’re not doing something together with me or for me. I don’t like having things done with low effort and done in the wrong way (aka, sloppy way, wrong order, missing out steps etc.) when I observe people doing something for themselves and sloppily I just bite my tongue hah. I can’t help but give them advice (I am known for being the big “ask for advice” person lol) . but I’m not being pushy since not my circus not my monkeys.

 

I think it’s a mixture of both ( not an istp but I am married to one ).
I feel like he’s more perfectionist at random time of the year but mainly laidback . With people- he’s usually friendly and laid back however I notice the closer he gets with someone- more expectation he has on them.

Generally speaking he’s pretty laid back - I know that you’re married to an istp , what’s he like ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

With people- he’s usually friendly and laid back however I notice the closer he gets with someone- more expectation he has on them.

Ali said it exactly. They're super laid back and casual with most people. They can become very perfectionistic and controlling of others the closer they are to them, but that's usually because despite the laid back demeanor, they internally govern themselves the same way.

They don't bull shit themselves, are super independent and often don't care about others (hence laid back). When they do care, they won't bullshit the other either (as this is a preferred way of being), but they also want to pull someone into their highly individualized world.

I actually find Ti to be the most judgemental of all the functions, personally.

Edit: Sorry AI, idk why I've nicknamed you Ali.

 

Not really. But it might seem so depending on how much I care about what I am doing. If I don't care good enough is good enough, with my good enough still being a proper job.

If I am genuinely interested and/or enjoying what I am doing while I still wouldn't be a perfectionist I will enjoy myself pushing things a bit, probably as close to state of the art as the circumstances allow me so it's reasonable to think that this might seem like a case of perfectionism while I am just enjoying optimizing it, not really seeking perfection per se.

 

Generally no unless for some reason I care about something then sometimes I can be very exact in what I do and want which may come off as perfectionistic when I'm not.

Yes when I care sometimes I can be easily frustrated during execution. It feels like I have finally made a decision on the choreography of the performance - how you move, when you move, where you move etc. everything is precise and carefully thought out and they ought to work together beautifully as planned and problem solved... then you are stuck in the middle and it ruins the whole experience. It's more about the momentum and flow not the mistakes.

But truth be told if I feel frustrated that usually means I care a lot but not quite enough because if I'm really serious about it I would naturally cut off my emotions, adapt and just get it done.

 

Y'all are fucking intense...

 

Generally speaking, ISTPs tend to have a more laid-back and easy-going approach to people and situations. However, individuals within the ISTP personality type can vary, and some may exhibit more perfectionistic tendencies or frustration when things don't go as expected. It's important to remember that personality types provide a general framework and that individual differences exist within each type.

 

I think it could be common for rational introverts (T and F doms) due to generally rigid/detached expectations and the desire for reality to match them.
Rational extraverts aren't necessarily more half-assed, the relationship is just reversed : perfectionism is about the internalization of reality instead of externalization.

 

Interesting. I always saw Ti-doms, especially INTPs as meticulous internalizers of reality. Ti doesn't really project expectations, Fe does.

 

Thanks... The ISTP in question here (husband) sometimes is very perfectionistic/anal about things and it makes me wonder. I think he's very close on the (E/I) scales (maybe like a 45/55 ratio) and the P/J scales and so sometimes he comes across like an ESTJ, I think...

 

dating an ESTJ for 4 years.
and I get you, HE CAN BE VERY ANAL and want things to be THE WAY HE WANTS IT, and that’s coming from an ISTP.

 

I don't think in general ISTP types are going to see themselves as perfectionistic, but onlookers may notice this when the type is not happy with how a project worked out. Based on Berens theory, ISTP shares the Chart the Course interaction style with ISTJ, INTJ and INFJ. Keeping a project on target may appear intense. On the other hand, ISTP types usually associate with enneagram 5 and 9, so their wings (5w6 and 9w1) could also give an ISTP type an appearance of intensity or perfectionism to a point. But again I think this may be in the eye of the beholder who in comparison may see themselves as very laid back. Just my thoughts.

 

Are you sure I am the one doing that here?

 

As I said, I don't see what else I can work with from your post. Feel free to move on if you are not motivated to continue. I have nothing else to say.

I think Carl G. Jung begs to differ in saying about the extraverted judging types:

I see.
If I interpret this chunk of text in isolation, then, in other words, Jung thinks that extraverted rational types only concern themselves with superficial reasoning and generally agreed-upon things, never going further to question it and apply their own brains much when data is presented to them.

If that is right, then Horoscope has vastly more expressive power and scientific validity than Jung's ideas.
Fortunately, I read Jung's work myself to know that his assessment of extraverted rational types is not reducible to just that piece of text.

 

Look, if the only thing you can extract from my first answer it is me arguing that your point of view is wrong because it differs from mine all my points were lost somewhere. But be aware that your replica to it is perfectly applicable to you, as your only argumentation there is: you didn't agree with me so you are entrenched on it.

But you are right, being said this I don't have any more motivation to continue with this sterile "no, you" conversation, have it your way.

 

Here's the thing. Interpreting Jung's work is one thing. In the end it comes down to a consensus of what everyone agrees he meant. Coming up with a different theory or a theory that conflicts with what he says then claiming another interpretation exist is entirely different, and requires merely referring the readers to the work being alluded to.

By now readers see that once confronted, some of you can only respond with ad hominem attacks. This is not middle school, and reality check you don't know me. I am not debating theory, I am presenting facts not based on my interpretation but what has been translated from Jung's work. It should not be hard to point readers to where you believe Jung wrote something entirely different, in this case that extraverts in general have the ability to turn inward.

It runs counter to basic principles on how Jung (not me) says we use extraversion and introversion. Again I am open to being enlightened as long as you refer this thread to facts for us to read and interpret for ourselves.

 

I will add my thoughts on the typically more and the very anal part. Even though I'm a INFJ not a ISTP. So this is a perspective from interaction's with both flavors.

Yes ISTP can be very anal if they have not properly balanced out there Functions. And get to stuck in Ti because that is where any ISTP main focus is. When it is not properly balanced and overdosing on Ti. They can become to associated with there ideas or whatever they poured there Ti into. After all every type does that.
This Ti dissociation within the ISTP will make them identify with Ti to anal degrees. Especially since they are a Sensor this doesn't allow the analness to spread it's cheeks.
Causeing complete analness.
Oh my, you should've had used Anal for word usage.....

This reminds me of a ISTP I use to debate with. Smart guy but dam the analness. He associated with his ideas to much.
/
Now let's discuss the other flavor. This flavor is more balanced thus being chill as fk.
Once the Ti associates with the other Functions the Ti can spread it's wings and swoosh about. This brings the Se/Ni into play for support of Ti and if the rarity that is called a balanced individual. Has also balanced there Inferior Fe. This will allow the flow to become one with the ISTP. That was a double indention I just did there. Allow me to elaborate on one. When we balance out our Functions we become one with ourselves. Or for those T's who like numbers, in a relationship when 2 becomes 1 and then another relationship happens 2 become 1. Holly molly 1 and 1 starts a relationship and becomes 1.


Every single Type or person when to indulged with there Dom Function will be unhealthy. And when a rock gets thrown into this pond. The Inferior doesn't know how to operate properly.

 

MyJazz your an INFJ! I knew there was a reason I like you!

INFJ’s aren’t anal retentive at all about their schedules 🤣! It’s the same thing it just shows up in another part of your life!

And as far as your ISTP friend goes, especially when our Ti/Ni goes crazy we rant. That’s the ISTP crying, we just need to get that out to feel better.

If that happens, be quiet and let them finish then stick your pointer finger in the air and yell “and another thing!” That’s you calling them out on what they just did, reaction: they will smile 😊 and knowledge what just happened.

 

Is that why i get a stalky T after a debate? It's been awhile since I have done both and I don't want to waste time with mindless debates and just get the stalky phase over with. As I continue talking to myself.

It use to be fun hanging out with you tHinker's during debates but they hate it when a F especially INFJ out does them. Mostly because the typical jabs debater's use when running out of ways to win. Never worked on me, when T type start to loose they fight dirty style ,online for sure. That's when the stalky syndrom starts. Eh , what do I know I may be wrong. I'm just a idiot among the flock of idiots.
I'll have to contemplate on your idea for future occurrence's.

I don't really care about the "typology" it self. As a big picture kind of way it's pretty swell. But many people never learn the value of that or the beauty within it. Keep tripping over small pebbles instead.

I take a note from ENTP's quit a bit, just sayin

 

True that, sounds like really young thinkers. When I started working as a mechanic, I got a lot of practical jokes played on me. This was to thicken my skin. It’s actually a natural way to develop our Fe so it doesn’t go into freak out mode. Once that happens we can take push back from feelers, until then, we can be @$$holes 😏

 

@UstolemynameBones
Hope you don't mind if I continue this topic. Not many healthy Function T types around to properly discuss.
That was my original ideas, maturity of healthy/unhealthy Function's. Most Feelers don't join debates, real debates/arguments. This is natural for T's though. It's kinda the same thing for a Feeler's F' Type discussion's. It's there own natural wheel house of sorting there shit out to speak and strengthen and balancing themselves out. The natural order of things. When I debated with INTP,INTJ, etc etc. They didn't know what hit them because who the fk has seen a INFJ go toe to toe debate with a INTP and out Ti them. INFJ's are not known for debating we don't like arguing. And to us that's all debating/arguments is arguing. The T doesn't really consider it "arguing" more as refining there T. That doesn't mean arguing won't occur. That's when shit really hits the fan and there F side starts to show. This balances of Function is why INTP's will say many times they don't think Carl Jung is a INTP. Because Jung wasn't some immature unbalanced individual. His Fe was developed good and balanced. Not many INTP's especially online get to that point. And Ti like Fi synthesize with the data. So this makes INTP go I'm not like that so Jung has to be INFJ.
Even though Jung was just way beyond such INTP that is still not balanced out. No one can out do a healthy INTP when it comes theory digging, imo. They go into some deep as.s Ti trip's with there Ne. This isn't a jab to any ISTP that's reading this. You feelows are smart as fk also especially when balanced out properly.

Like you said dealing with Fe is a natural important thing to do for Ti, for any Ti user. I know I refined quit a bit of Ti users when I use to debate because I was still heavy Fe usage. I just know how to combine my Fe/Ti and use that combining for raw debate power. I used Fe heavy in debates but only for the Fe rant empowerment while using Ti, the Fe would go unoticed and not used as Fe. Sometimes very little but the T' I was debating would point it out and I would raise my Ti again.
Anywho just throwing that out there. And maybe a ISTP can have some word of thought from this within the ISTP section at some point.

Just remembered that's what this OP discussion was about anyways
When I joined here and did debates. The T's would get so mad and some F's. Because I wouldn't Quote the debate and they couldn't keep up with what they was saying....you don't have comment's with quotes irl They would be like this is how to quote. I'm thinking well this is how you debate irl

 

🤣

I love losing arguments. Losing an argument means you’ve learned something. It means there’s something wrong with your thinking, and someone just fixed it. It means you go “oh! That’s why it wasn’t working, I was wrong!” Then you try it with your new thought process and book it works!

I get very excited when I lose an argument😀

 

@Functianalyst
Hello, Functianalyst
It's been awhile, might not remember me my Ni-Fe remember's people very much so.
I didn't realize you was in this thread.

 

@Functianalyst
Hello, Functianalyst
It's been awhile, might not remember me my Ni-Fe remember's people very much so.
I didn't realize you was in this thread.

Hi There Myjazz, of course I remember you.

 

That's T on T refinery that I spoken of somewhere around here. Just like F on F refinery
I just happen to be able to do both, because everyone needs a little of both
If I F'hink like doing so
Ah man new slang is just on a roll.

 

I fink your on the right track 🤣

 

Oh, this thread is still going? 👀 I haven't been here in awhile. Will catch up

 

no way. ISTJs are perfectionists. At least me, I'm not. You may say I'm perfectionist when I do something I really like very well, but to me it's just natural. Perfectionists usually are organized too, and I don't see myself as organized.

 

I know what your saying, and I’m regards to being like OCD in life or whatever I too am pretty laid back. But, if I’m doing something I like, for instance I like cars. If I’m building my car, I can be a perfectionist. I can look at every little detail trying to perfect the craft, then I eventually get burnt out and just throw the thing together, but for a good time I can go a bit above and beyond, know what I mean?

 

Even autistic ISFP's are perfectionistic.