This is a tough situation..."With or without you"...can't help but think of the epic U2 song...

I must say that I seem to have trouble getting out of relationships that rock me to my core. I seem to take twice the amount of time getting over the relationship than the actual time that the relationship lasted. :frustrating:

The only thing I can suggest is to keep the dialogue going. Would a trial separation help? It might be complicated since you are actually living together.

I have seen a variety of my friends go through split-ups and sometimes they go to couples counselling to actually split-up. This results in all of the mourning period being done with a counsellor and the two individuals are better able to more on more quickly.

Good-luck!

 

Would a trial separation help? It might be complicated since you are actually living together.

I have seen a variety of my friend go through split-ups and sometimes they go to couples counselling to actually split-up. This results in all of the mourning period being done with a counsellor and the two individuals are better able to more on more quickly.

Well, we're actually moving into a new apartment together this weekend, one with two bedrooms across the apartment from each other. We've actually decided to have separate rooms; he needs his personal space/alone time, and I need a place I can decorate to really reflect my spirit. Is that a trial separation? Sort of? Can it count as one?

I've never thought about going to a couples counselor for a break-up, but it's a fantastic idea.

 

This is depressing me!!! Thanks Damascus. I will never bring another guy into couples counseling again! :crying:

Actually, the longer I physically stay around someone the more deeper I'm prone to fall in love. Period. If I really want to get over someone, I have to move away from them completely. This means no emails or pictures I could look at, etc.

It seems you might be looking for the motivation to move away? Perhaps you are relying on you momentary feelings too much. It's okay to take an action first and the feelings will follow. The feelings will follow because you are working in line with your goals.

Example: You don't want to be with him anymore. You have made your decision that it's unhealthy. But at the moment-you just can't bring yourself to leave. You want your feelings to motivate you to do the "right thing" but they aren't. So you are going to have to go ahead and do the action before you feel like it. And once you do it, you know it will be right.

However, if you need the "drip drip" method with a counselor, I'm all for it. I HATE breakups. A counselor might be a healthy way to go or an expensive way. It's obviously up to you.

Why are you guys so "wrong" for each other?

 

Why are you guys so "wrong" for each other?

It's pretty much everything. I want to spend time with him, he wants to spend it alone doing the INTJ "recharge" thing. I want to be emotionally intimate, he can't understand and wants to make all of my feelings about logic (which, of course, will NEVER make sense). We decorate in a violently different way. He's picky about everything, I'm pretty much picky about nothing in the world. I feel like he's behaving in a condescending and superior way towards me, when in his reality he's actually holding back and trying to be nice.

I could go on for years. Literally. :sad:

 

I can offer advice all day long, but it won't be in the INTJ language.... I'd pretty much be telling you what you already know and have said to him.... Take him to visit enfpforum. >.> There's this brilliant INTJ lady over there named Psyko who offers spectacular advice to INTJs about dealing with ENFPs, having had tons of experience with us and all our little quirks. I'm sure she could help you convey your needs to him in a way he can both understand and respect. Your goals don't necessarily have to exclude each other.

 

Honestly, I don't believe in incompatible people, only unwilling people, which at times might be legitimate. So coming from that I would have to say you two need to figure out how to work together. If you guys are getting in fights over little stuff then what's a better way to deal with little things. I hate to suggest it being a staunch ENFP myself, but he may even respond to "scheduling" time to be together and time for him to be alone. This doesn't mean plotting it out on the calander, just having a talking session with him about when he could have his alone time that would be most convenient for the both of you ie. when you're not there, so that when you are there he can totally give himself to you fully. The difficulties you are describing are typical clash points between Extraverts and Introverts, Thinkers and Feelers, and Judgers and Percievers. So don't sweat it too much, it may seem like a big deal, but this is so not the end of the world, just the point at which you can get to know him even better by working with him to find your relationship's balance.

With the E vs. I, you actually have a built in mechanism that you can relate to his alone time, since you're an ENFP. See, we ENFPs spend a lot of our down time figuring out who we are, re-affirming our value system. This actually turns out to sometimes look a lot like the alone-time model of introverts. Try to find a balance between his alone time and his time with you, and if he's just wanting alone time ALL the time, maybe then you should reconsider the relationship. It sounds like you two still very much want to be together though so don't worry. Oh yeah, and according to studies, it's good to have one person an E and the other an I in relaitonships.

T vs. F This one's more tricky, and I think the one you might actually be having the most difficulty with, because its a matter of decision making and rationale. The way both of you make decisions is totally different, you by way of feelings, him by way of logic. This however doesn't have to be a dividing factor, let it work to your advantage by letting him make decisions that require logic and you search for decisions that more require emotion, like interpersonal issues. It's a matter of finding your strengths and working off of each other that makes good relationships.

J vs. P This wouldn't really be a problem if you two were'nt in such close quarters because its simply the way you go about living life. The only answer I have for this one is you have to try to meet him halfway, clean up your stuff, compromise on decoration whether by just dividing up the apartment (lol) or finding some happy medium, and ask him to put up with those annoying habits that you just CANNOT break. This one, though is definately not the end of the world.

I hope this helps, it REALLY involved but maybe it helps highlight the issues at hand. One thing to remember above all is that you two have one thing in common, the way you think. You are both intuitives, so capitalize on that, find things that you both share in that respect and enjoy them! A great relationship isn't just gonna happen to you, you have to work at it, just like anything in life, but if you do work at it then in some ways it is more rewarding than anything else in life.:laughing:

 

Break it off. It takes two to tango, and when one half is no longer happy, the relationship isn't working out.

This actually sounds a lot like my last relationship (Except he was an INTP). He was my second longest relationship ever (Almost an entire year), but I finally had to break it off due to the fact that all we did was fight, and all I did was cry, though we were quite good together in other aspects. He was the first person I've ever dumped, and it was the hardest thing I've had to do almost ever. He refused to break it off, because he's stubborn and said he would never be the one at the beginning of the relationship. He figured that it was giving up, and if you did that you were a failure, and with enough trying anything could work. He didn't understand my feelings though, and would say truly crushing things (Things that would kill any ENFP's optimism). I couldn't stand to bawl my eyes out anymore. He was controlling, horrible to my friends, and pretty much the definition of a sociopath. I think I thought I could honestly influence him with my general optimism and love for everything.
Anyway. Sorry. had to get that off my chest.
Generally, I'm pretty content to wait around until they break it off. It feels like a cleaner break. The only exception was that last relationship, and that was because it was getting to the point of emotionally abusive (Telling me who I was allowed to hang out with, where I was allowed to go, saying absolutely terrible things about my friends, telling me that most of my opinions were invalid and wrong, and always always always having to know where I was or else an absolute freak out would occur).
I wish I had the ability to just be able to walk away from a regular relationship that wasn't working out. I'm sure it would have saved me a lot of regret.

 

Yet, simply put, I have been crying my eyes out every night after he goes to sleep for the last 4 months. It occurred to me that this may perhaps be an ENFP thing, and I was wondering if you had any advice or stories to share with me. I want to leave, but I can't seem to actually get my feet moving, and seeing as he's the first person I've ever really REALLY loved, I can't just disconnect for some reason.

Halp?

If I may ask, what makes you cry that much?

 

As trite as it sounds, knowing that I'm totally alone even though my partner is there in the same room with me. He spends more time withdrawn and elsewhere engaged than he does connecting with me. There's improvement sometimes, but it's random, and it fluctuates. I think he tries, I just think he fails.

When we first got together, and described to each other the way that we thought and felt, and the needs that we had in a relationship, it seemed that they fit perfectly. Because of our needs and our personalities, we were able to give to each other effortlessly. I've stayed the same, though; my needs and personality haven't changed. His have. Most things that he said he needed are things he no longer needs, and things that he said he didn't need are things that he needs badly. I end up so terribly unhappy because he isn't the person he told me he was... he's actually turned into the opposite person. And because I love him, and I can't exactly turn it off with the flip of a switch, now I'm entangled and don't know what to do.

It's basically a big fat trainwreck.

 

It sounds more serious than it did at first, and it may very well be time to break it off. All I would urge you to do is first try really being honest with him about where you are at, and find out if he's there too. Because it sounds like he's ready to be done with the relationship.

 

Well, the relationship was ended for me. F my effin' life.

I've been crying pretty much non-stop for 3 days and can guarantee at least 3x3 more days coming.... maybe 3 months. ENFPs are supposed to bounce back from things quickly, aren't they? Why do I have the hardest time with this? I only get out of bed to go to work and walk my dogs. It is downright debilitating to the point where I literally am not functioning.

I know... therapy... meds... etc etc... but I can't afford it since I no longer have a shared income. So I'm gonna have to barrel through this bitch on my own.

 

Break ups hurt like a bitch. I'm very sorry. I know us ENFPs feel everything so deeply. It's worse when they break things off with you. It probably kicked up a big abandonment issue for you and that is why you held on for as long as you did.

However, we DO move on very quickly. I promise you. I think it is because we feel everything so deeply, we process things faster.

Shame on him. I think you were a rebound relationship for him. Those never end well. He was either looking for everything his former mate wasn't, or he was looking for everything she was. That is how rebound works. But instead, he needed to spend time alone reflecting and thinking of the parts he wanted to keep and parts he that didn't work for him. He tried to avoid his pain over the last relationship by jumping into a relationship with you. That is very dangerous. Because any anger he still had for his ex could now be directed at you since she wasn't there.

Or he was looking for his "happy pill". You don't remind him of anything she was. So you were an escape. But then when he realized "totally different" isn't what he need either, he tries to move on from you.

He just didn't know himself or his needs and you got caught in the whirlwind of his confusion.

Then your need for the perfect ideal relationship and your vision of what could be made you keep working at it. You didn't want to give up. But the reality is, that perfect ideal relationship didn't exist because all you need to see is this reality.

Cheer up hon. You haven't changed. You are still beautiful with wonderful qualities. He had the issue from the beginning. I've been with a man who changed. It was awful. It set my head spinning. I trusted him so much in the beginning to remain the same and that is why I moved things forward with him. I took that risk because he was so different in the beginning.

Then he changed. Was it my fault? He even swears "no". And why would I care? I don't want to be with someone who is so fickle. If they don't want me or if they "change" that is their problem. I should be the one judging them for that kind of behavior. Not the other way around. And not worried about how he doesn't like me anymore. I wasn't the one who changed or did anything wrong.

True, it sucks about the investment that you had in the relationship. But don't beat yourself up about it. You trusted him to be more adjusted and over previous relationships when you first started dating. He didn't warn you in the beginning "I'm going to change my mind about my needs part way through the relationship and call it quits." Had he done that, I'm sure you would not have let yourself get involved.

I think because us ENFPs can see other people's motivations so well, it really sucks for us when we don't see something coming. But we are not in control of everything, and obviously there are going to be times where we can't predict all the behaviors of those we love.

Take care of yourself. You don't need to suffer alone. You can get counseling, btw. You just haven't searched every avenue. Don't give up. I KNOW you can find a way to get counseling and support. You just have to try. Make a dedication to getting healthy and happy again. Find a counselor and a way to have it funded. I know you don't enjoy this misery. You at least go to work. I can't even concentrate on work through my break ups.

Good luck and keep us posted, sweetie. *Hugs*

 

I can't really identify with this post. I've had two bad relationships and I jumped out of both as soon as it got to what I felt was irreconcilable. Sure, it was awkward breaking up, always is, but it felt good within a week or two. I wasn't in love with either girl though.

 

Oh, HELL I wish I had something useful to say. All I can think of, and this is the truth, is that we ENFPs are much stronger than we think we are. It's a societal trope that to feel deeply is to be weak, but I think in grounds us in a way that few others can understand. You are in the thick of the storm, and the squalls will keep coming, but the recovery has already started. It may not feel like it now, but you have to stop a moment and think about just how strong and decisive you have been in just posting and talking about this enormously difficult event in your life.

I understand what you mean when it comes to partners changing in the middle of things. I'm the middle of that myself, and I think that it's very common, generally, since people as a whole aren't static throughout their lives. What does happen, though, is that sometimes, people evolve away from each other. He needs something different now and it feels like he's blaming you somehow for not being those things. Maybe it comes from INTJs being so grounded in stability--they may not necessarily feel like they've changed all that much.

But that change? It feels like a frickin' BETRAYAL. You are both on the pitch and he is the one who has changed the ground rules, without telling you, and looks down on you for not knowing.

Relationships are each a very varied and different thing. And each and every one of us are poisoned by what we are told are "normal" relationships. We are poisoned by media, misled by family beliefs. A friend of mine and her husband amaze me: they are both polyamorous, have separate partners, but are in a deeply committed, lasting, and loving relationship with one another. It is the farthest thing from traditional I've seen in my life. But the constants in their relationship--the foundations--are openness and respect. There is no arrogance, no condescension, and when a misunderstanding does arise, it is treated with proper attention and a genuine drive to see it resolved.

Not only do we struggle to relate to our partners, we struggle vainly to fit our relationships into the tiny, weird-ass frames that we have been led to believe relationships should fit in.

Ultimately, though, you must do what is best for you. As an ENFP, it is enormously difficult to separate oneself from the feelings of others, but one of the best phrases I've ever heard from anyone is this: "I am not responsible for your feelings." If you have done your level best to be honest and respectful, and you feel that you're getting jerked around, you're not being respected, and it's simply time to you. You are the one who matters most. Always.

I wish you luck, patience, and perseverance. Keep us posted, and my thoughts are with you.

 

Yes untill recently I had a problem staying in unhealthy relationships, but meeting woman in nightclubs to begin relationships with was my first mistake. We did not have relationships the majority were just trauma bonds. I took on all the persons problems in terms of me consoling them trying to fix them. I know that all relationships take work but its a matter of gaging your compatibility and both of your willingness to work on your issues. And even two people sometimes who are healthy and take responsibility for their behavior and all that good stuff, they still may just lack that chemistry to keep the relationship afloat. I have only been in love once and even when a problem arised the way we handled it was beautiful and drew us closer.( complicated loving mutual breakup) anyway I get the feeling ? your not really that much in love? if so dont settle. We all deserve to smile with that internal glow knowing we have someone who loves every aspect of us as we do them....projects are ok but take so much energy for unknown outcome.

 

I've never, not even once, found a woman that I liked in a night club. Night clubs suck to meet women.

 

Yes, I fall in love easily, but the good thing is that I also fall out of love easily. So whenever, I feel like I can't leave a bad relationship, then I just find a new girl and forget completely about the last one almost instantly.

 

I totally get you. I am like this with all relationships, romantic and otherwise. I invest a lot of time in my relationships, and I feel like I really do see the good in people that others do not, and therefore, I have a hard time letting go of those parts of that person even if the bad is outweighing them.

On top of this, I feel like I should be able to fix the situation and that I'M the failure and the bad person for abandoning my friend/mate.

The only thing I've learned is that it gets easier the longer I stay away from them, but it's never easy in the beginning and it's yet to completely go away.

 

LIke I said, I am very much like Romeo from, "Romeo and Juliet". I fall in love very deeply if I am just dating one woman. That scares me and I often fear them leaving me. In fact, they could be doing things that are horrible and they could be horrible for me in fact. Hell, some people will even tell me not to get with someone before I get with them or that they are bad for me. I could even see red flags. However, I just see that person as so wonderful that I would go to the end to the world not to lose them.I fall in love deeply and also out of love deeply. I literally can't stop thinking about that person, and my relationship becomes my life. This is why I am so afraid of one on one commitment. It makes me get all illogical and stuff and the Fi goes nuts. That's why I like to have lots of girls, so that way I don't fall into this love trap. This song pretty much describes me.....

 

I was moved when you said that you've been crying over this. I know I'm an INFJ and you're posting specifically for advice from your clan-- so to speak-- but I wonder if you'd mind if I offered some of my advice?

I have always found inventories helpful. I know that you both find yourself stepping on/around the other's needs, but in reality I wonder if you have some things in common that you have not yet explored. It was your tears that make me think that there is MUCH more here than simple sexual chemistry (and I am not belittling sexual chemistry, but remarking that it is one facet of a complex system).

You are an idealist and he is an intellectual. In reality the person who would be able to leave the relationship easier should be him, but you are BOTH experiencing reluctance to part with each other and that suggests to this outsider that you have found real and lasting value in each other... And I wonder if you agree with me that that's worth fighting for. Too, you both need to be in healthy places to address a suffering relationship. If you and he are hurting to mutual levels then there is little you can do to fix this in the present until you both heal. Healing as individuals would help you both approach this with clear minds, and make a decision that is in the best interests of both of you! roud:

I think your situation is terribly common, though! I think, too, that the ideal world for an ENFP would be a world in which all relationships that are built in the ecstasy of a moment could live forever in that glowing phase of euphoric happiness and contentment. Whether or not that is feasible I believe this is the golden dragon an ENFP pursues in all relationships. Your wish not to end this is reflective of your wishes to preserve most of your relationships.

I am sorry you are going through this, and I hope I've been some help. You can also try reading "Choice Theory" by Glasser to get some perspective on the issue of individual needs profiles, which, while influenced by personality form mostly by our external systems in youth.

Peace.

 

Thanks for all of the support, you guys. It's been a really horrible week. To add insult to injury, he has now emotionally "moved on" (in his mind, not IRL) to one of my friends to whom I introduced him.

Nevertheless... the world will go on. I've had a very dark week, and I know that it will be dark for awhile longer. I have my first appointment for therapy on Monday morning, and I am ready to start facing things on my own and figuring out where to go from here. Deep down, I realize that the dissolution of our relationship wasn't my fault... it was simply that we weren't meant to be, and that we weren't compatible for each other in the long run... but I still dissect every moment of the last month in my mind daily. Like, "what if I hadn't pushed him away that one night?" or "God, why did I not kiss him goodnight the nights following up to this?" Analyzing every little thing and wishing I had absolutely soaked myself into every last moment we spent loving each other.

Thank you guys so much for your kindness and your understanding. I know there will come a day where I don't blame myself for this. Right now, I've busied myself with being the friend that he needs me to be as he continues to grow and go through all of these changes. It's hard to shove the hurt down, but it's necessary. I need to be a good friend, and I need the distraction of helping him out with his latest crush to keep me from remaining attached. After all... she's my friend, and he's my friend, and what better thing could an ENFP hope for than for all of the people in their lives to be happy? Even at the risk of our own sanity. Friends deserve to be happy.

And so it goes.