Are there any ENTP type 9s on this forum? Any opinions on if an ENTP type 9 could (and healthily) exist in reality? Also, for the few that may exist, are you all 9w8 or is there some 9w1s as well?
Krayfish
ENTP type 9?
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Hi.
I exist, as do others.
I'm a 9w8, others are 9w1.
@Dyslexicon is one of 'the others' :ninja:
The gut fix for ENTPs seems 50/50 between 8 and 9 so it's not so hard to consider how the combination of ENTP and core 9 could easily work, even though it's not common.
I exist, as do others.
I'm a 9w8, others are 9w1.
@Dyslexicon is one of 'the others' :ninja:
The gut fix for ENTPs seems 50/50 between 8 and 9 so it's not so hard to consider how the combination of ENTP and core 9 could easily work, even though it's not common.
Hey, not sure if you're still looking, but ENTP 9s definitely exist in reality. My girlfriend's a ENTP 9w8. @randomshoes want to come and talk about your experiences as this type?
Jim from the Office is also a ENTP 9w1 and a good illustration of some unique problems that can come from that type combination. I wouldn't say it's any more or less especially unhealthy than another, but certainty it causes specific issues: I think ENxP 9s seem to suffer boredom a lot more keenly than some other ENxPs because they're less good at motivating themselves to stop being bored. Tertiary Fe can also be emphasized because it supports their focus on disturbing/not disturbing the environment but they feel unconfident with those questions in terms of the social mood so their experience of tert Fe is about the tension of "shall I disturb the mood?" Unlike some ExTPs for whom it is "I'm rad please tell me I'm rad please?"
Jim from the Office is also a ENTP 9w1 and a good illustration of some unique problems that can come from that type combination. I wouldn't say it's any more or less especially unhealthy than another, but certainty it causes specific issues: I think ENxP 9s seem to suffer boredom a lot more keenly than some other ENxPs because they're less good at motivating themselves to stop being bored. Tertiary Fe can also be emphasized because it supports their focus on disturbing/not disturbing the environment but they feel unconfident with those questions in terms of the social mood so their experience of tert Fe is about the tension of "shall I disturb the mood?" Unlike some ExTPs for whom it is "I'm rad please tell me I'm rad please?"
Hi! ENTP 9w8 here. From what I've seen it's actually not a super unusual combination. I think @spiderfrommars is right that it emphasizes Fe, but it also really emphasizes Si, which is a problem because obviously I am terrible at Si. So I can get stuck in a weird Si rut where I'm only functioning on like three of my brain cells, particularly if I'm sick or uncomfortable since I'm also self-pres first.
There IS a general feeling of contradiction between 9's need to turn off and numb out and Ne's need for constant mental stimulation. In practice this means that when I get stressed and say I want to "relax" or "shut off," what I really mean is I'm going to go on my computer and watch a youtube video AND do logic puzzles, or read something semi-mindless AND listen to music, etc. If I do too little my brain will slip out of my control and start to think about whatever it is I don't want to think about, but I'm not really engaging with the world or taxing my brain (that would usually involve me writing something or discussing ideas with someone or reading something new and complex). It's a constant balancing act to try to feed my unhealthy desire to shut off without out-and-out boring myself (even if, in the long term, I am boring myself). One (bad) trick I use is to only watch or read interesting things that I've already watched/read. When I'm in a bad 9 place I'm sort of "afraid" of new things, but I need stimulation and something that at least feels like new input or Ne will cannibalize itself and become some sort of demented ouroboros of boringness and pain.
FYI I have an anxiety disorder so that may have colored the above a bit. :sad:
On a more positive note, I think 9 can combine really nicely with Ne when it's not too unhealthy. You can get into this great flow state where you're just taking ideas as they come and feeling out which ones sort of pull on you. I also suspect 9 + Ne is one of the reasons I'm particularly good at teaching. I'm more sensitive to mood than I would otherwise be cognitively and can be very flexible about what angle to approach a topic from. Add a Ti sense of systems and how things fit together and you get someone who can explain anything they understand in six different ways.
On a larger scale, 9 + ENTP can lead to a person who is incredibly creative and innovative in one particular subject or context, but is too afraid to move beyond that comfort zone, to jump ship and try a different career or area of interest, even if they're obviously better suited somewhere else. This can lead to boredom and then underachieving. Jim Halpert from The Office is the perfect example of this. He is intelligent, creative, and skilled enough to do something way less boring and mundane than selling paper, but he just...doesn't try? Instead, he spends all his energy on pranking his coworker in insanely elaborate ways.
The solution? Integrate to 3 and start your own business or invent something or go back to school.
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Anyway, hope that was useful.
There IS a general feeling of contradiction between 9's need to turn off and numb out and Ne's need for constant mental stimulation. In practice this means that when I get stressed and say I want to "relax" or "shut off," what I really mean is I'm going to go on my computer and watch a youtube video AND do logic puzzles, or read something semi-mindless AND listen to music, etc. If I do too little my brain will slip out of my control and start to think about whatever it is I don't want to think about, but I'm not really engaging with the world or taxing my brain (that would usually involve me writing something or discussing ideas with someone or reading something new and complex). It's a constant balancing act to try to feed my unhealthy desire to shut off without out-and-out boring myself (even if, in the long term, I am boring myself). One (bad) trick I use is to only watch or read interesting things that I've already watched/read. When I'm in a bad 9 place I'm sort of "afraid" of new things, but I need stimulation and something that at least feels like new input or Ne will cannibalize itself and become some sort of demented ouroboros of boringness and pain.
FYI I have an anxiety disorder so that may have colored the above a bit. :sad:
On a more positive note, I think 9 can combine really nicely with Ne when it's not too unhealthy. You can get into this great flow state where you're just taking ideas as they come and feeling out which ones sort of pull on you. I also suspect 9 + Ne is one of the reasons I'm particularly good at teaching. I'm more sensitive to mood than I would otherwise be cognitively and can be very flexible about what angle to approach a topic from. Add a Ti sense of systems and how things fit together and you get someone who can explain anything they understand in six different ways.
On a larger scale, 9 + ENTP can lead to a person who is incredibly creative and innovative in one particular subject or context, but is too afraid to move beyond that comfort zone, to jump ship and try a different career or area of interest, even if they're obviously better suited somewhere else. This can lead to boredom and then underachieving. Jim Halpert from The Office is the perfect example of this. He is intelligent, creative, and skilled enough to do something way less boring and mundane than selling paper, but he just...doesn't try? Instead, he spends all his energy on pranking his coworker in insanely elaborate ways.
The solution? Integrate to 3 and start your own business or invent something or go back to school.
Anyway, hope that was useful.
I am forced to disbelieve in the ENTP 9 ... like ... what? I am SUPER suspicious that this is some sort of plot. My guess is the enneagram fix is misjudged as 9 instead of 7 but I cannot say for sure. The easiest tests I have come up with for the enneagram are issues related to transition. Of course you would choose the pain in the tuckus 9 as the case in point.
9s are social chameleons in most cases. They literally seem two-faced to people that know them well, and especially intimate essences. I know, I seem harsh. It's because I am.
The withdrawn essence of the 9 really is avoidant in approach, and this is like insanely upped for the self-pres. All the honesty types, 8, 4, 6 are usually driven quite mad by them (raises hand).
The < symbol intensity of the typical ENTP is critical but invested, almost by default. Analysis required. The 9 method to me seems entirely antithetical, almost diametrically. Certainly a 7 head fix mitigates this, especially if and only if the 9 finds the other person entertaining. But this would usually look like resigned addiction with a 9. The sort of last port of call of the day return to that which must be suffered. That does not seem ENTPish like IN ANY WAY.
I must admit as well, I know a ton of 9s, they are everywhere, and like only 1 that is remotely creative in any way that I would deem so. And that 9 is very 9-4 almost to the point of equal vectors.
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Just curious if the so-called 9s here would like or no like (use your own words) the term 'mirroring' for what a 9 does when dealing with motivations of others. This is ... a trick question.
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If you think you're an ENTP and a 9, I think something is odd there. Self-deception I contend is ... likely.
9s are social chameleons in most cases. They literally seem two-faced to people that know them well, and especially intimate essences. I know, I seem harsh. It's because I am.
The withdrawn essence of the 9 really is avoidant in approach, and this is like insanely upped for the self-pres. All the honesty types, 8, 4, 6 are usually driven quite mad by them (raises hand). The < symbol intensity of the typical ENTP is critical but invested, almost by default. Analysis required. The 9 method to me seems entirely antithetical, almost diametrically. Certainly a 7 head fix mitigates this, especially if and only if the 9 finds the other person entertaining. But this would usually look like resigned addiction with a 9. The sort of last port of call of the day return to that which must be suffered. That does not seem ENTPish like IN ANY WAY.
I must admit as well, I know a ton of 9s, they are everywhere, and like only 1 that is remotely creative in any way that I would deem so. And that 9 is very 9-4 almost to the point of equal vectors.
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Just curious if the so-called 9s here would like or no like (use your own words) the term 'mirroring' for what a 9 does when dealing with motivations of others. This is ... a trick question.
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If you think you're an ENTP and a 9, I think something is odd there. Self-deception I contend is ... likely.
This site is freaking out today so rather than edit I had to add another post. I'll be damned if I'll wait on it.
The 9 disintegrates to 6 fear and need to be around motivations it likes. Organization/prepping.
The 7 disintegrates to 1 anger at the incorrectness of it all.
I find the first one, again, unlikely to be ENTP and the second one very likely to be.
The 9 integrates to 3, the 8 to 2 and the 7 to 4. ENTP .not equal. in any way . 3
ENTPs are like the poster child for omega status - Socrates - designed to poke fun at main-streamers. To me it mostly denies 9/6/3 although I supposed with the right other 2 vectors in your tritype, ANYTHING could be possible.
The 9 disintegrates to 6 fear and need to be around motivations it likes. Organization/prepping.
The 7 disintegrates to 1 anger at the incorrectness of it all.
I find the first one, again, unlikely to be ENTP and the second one very likely to be.
The 9 integrates to 3, the 8 to 2 and the 7 to 4. ENTP .not equal. in any way . 3
ENTPs are like the poster child for omega status - Socrates - designed to poke fun at main-streamers. To me it mostly denies 9/6/3 although I supposed with the right other 2 vectors in your tritype, ANYTHING could be possible.
I used to think I was a Nine because conflict can make me very anxious and I will often be overly compliant or simmer silently with hidden anger to avoid it. But then I learned that 7s can be conflict avoidant too, and that in my case the anxiety about conflict situations has a lot to do with my autism spectrum disorder. It makes it hard to perceive how people can be angry at and criticise me unless they hate me, and I can't predict or navigate the outcome easily, so I panic that our relationship will be forever ruined as soon as the other person shows any anger. That's not the reason that Nines avoid conflict, apparently. I don't try to blend into the background or other people like a Nine, I only want to disappear when someone is angry.
@series0
Also “intimate essences” sounds...bad. Let's just leave it at that.
FYI though, self-pres 9s aren't more avoidant than other 9 subtypes in general. They're specifically the most internally avoidant and the least externally avoidant, in my experience. Soc 9s are the reverse: least internally avoidant and most externally avoidant. Sx 9s seem to land somewhere in the middle.
If your definition of 9s (or any other type) is “people I don't like” you will type only people who you do not like as 9s, and will then have “evidence” that your definition is correct (see common attitudes towards social instinct, 6, ESFJ). Instead, consider whether “people I don't like” is a valid, useful, or even interesting type definition. (Spoiler: it isn't).
Also, 6s literally INTEGRATE to 9, so, no, they are not "usually driven quite mad by them."
Oh, and “honesty types”? Really? They're called the reactive triad. That's one of those things people say when they really just mean "the good types."
It is also worth noting that the ENTP, being a perceiving dominant, is by no means the most critical type that exists. Thinking doms (Ti, Te) likely have that honor. But really this is neither here nor there, because it is possible to be a naturally analytical/critical person and suppress that due to issues, delusions, or trauma.
Ooh, and 8s. 8s have basically zero desire to analyze. They are ACT ACT ACT. Guess that's not a possible type combination....wait.
Oh and that second sentence is functionally incoherent, so I guess we'll just leave that be.
2) 4s are in no way more creative than other types, that's just their projected image, their constructed idea of themselves. It has no relationship, positive or negative, to their actual level of creativity (if indeed creativity is something that can even be objectively measured).
BONUS ROUND
My experience of disintegration to 6 involves being suddenly unable to suppress all the things I have been suppressing (I've used the metaphor of keeping all the troubling things in a box and eventually the box bursts and it all comes raining down), but instead of being able to act on them (a la 3) I am paralyzed by the fear of the all the things that could go wrong (Ne helpfully supplies an infinite menu of possibilities). There's also a sort of manic indecision, where I flit back and forth, unable to determine what most requires my attention and what to do about it.
“Anger at the incorrectness of it all,” sounds like you mean “anger because other people are stupid and don't make sense,” which is just how Ti rolls on an average day (particularly in ExTPs). What I'm feeling right now, for example.
But seriously, any enneagram can be paired with any cognitive type for one simple reason: cognitive type =/ behavior. It influences behavior, but so do an incredible number of other things, including enneagram. (Other things that influence behavior include: culture, religion, political beliefs, gender norms, mental disorders, how you were raised and by who, etc.) Cognitive type should not be mistaken for an entire personality description, with built-in morals and new and improved superhuman status! Buy one today! Cognitive type is just what it says on the tin: a description of how your cognition works. It's the bare bones of who you are, not the meat. It's the hardware on which you run your software.
Hello. I exist. I literally posted a long thing directly before you explaining my experience and how 9 interacts with ENTP.
I actually mistyped as a 7 core initially, likely because of the Ne making me seem a bit more hyperactive than a typical 9, but I am in no way opportunistic enough to be a 7 and my biggest life problems have more to do with laziness and inactivity than gluttony and rationalization.
No idea what this means. Transition into____?
This is only a description of soc 9s. 9 is a withdrawn type, so mostly we ignore things, including people. In fact, being a social chameleon is the way soc 9 says “fuck off” without having to actually say “fuck off.” It's not a trick (as “two-faced” implies), it's a shield, and not something generally used on real intimates. Soc 5s often display similar behaviors. Soc 4s often act meek and overly sweet for similar reasons. Also, serious question: are you under the impression that ENTPs are incapable of being two-faced? Because, um, aren't we kind of famous for trolling? What, exactly, would you call that if not two-faced? At any rate, I am soc blindspot, so I literally have no relation to this statement.
Also “intimate essences” sounds...bad. Let's just leave it at that.
Yeah yeah, you are cool because you are harsh. Moving on now, I fail to see how being avoidant (of literally anything, although I'm not sure whether you are thinking about avoiding external things such as people or objects or internal things such as thoughts and feelings) is incompatible with Ne + Ti. At all. In fact, Ne is a bit avoidant as a function, really. If you want directness in a function, se Se.I know, I seem harsh. It's because I am.
FYI though, self-pres 9s aren't more avoidant than other 9 subtypes in general. They're specifically the most internally avoidant and the least externally avoidant, in my experience. Soc 9s are the reverse: least internally avoidant and most externally avoidant. Sx 9s seem to land somewhere in the middle.
What I am getting from this is a) you don't like 9s, b) you are an ENTP, therefore c) 9 and ENTP must be incompatible. Okay. I am not wildly found of 1s. Guess there's no such thing as an ENTP 1! My ENFJ friend hates 4s with a burning passion. Guess ENFJ 4 is off the menu!
If your definition of 9s (or any other type) is “people I don't like” you will type only people who you do not like as 9s, and will then have “evidence” that your definition is correct (see common attitudes towards social instinct, 6, ESFJ). Instead, consider whether “people I don't like” is a valid, useful, or even interesting type definition. (Spoiler: it isn't).
Also, 6s literally INTEGRATE to 9, so, no, they are not "usually driven quite mad by them."
Oh, and “honesty types”? Really? They're called the reactive triad. That's one of those things people say when they really just mean "the good types."
I addressed this in my post. It is actually possible for one's delusions to fight with one's cognition. In fact, most humans, being more complex than cardboard cutouts, have contradictory parts of their personality.
It is also worth noting that the ENTP, being a perceiving dominant, is by no means the most critical type that exists. Thinking doms (Ti, Te) likely have that honor. But really this is neither here nor there, because it is possible to be a naturally analytical/critical person and suppress that due to issues, delusions, or trauma.
7s are not what I'd call analytical. Their general approach to life is “don't worry about it,” which is....huh, antithetical to Ti. Yet no one argues there is no such thing as an ENTP 7. So...
Ooh, and 8s. 8s have basically zero desire to analyze. They are ACT ACT ACT. Guess that's not a possible type combination....wait.
9 with a 7 fix? Sure, that's one possible manifestation of that. Was there a point to this little digression? Are ENTPs immune to addiction now?
Oh and that second sentence is functionally incoherent, so I guess we'll just leave that be.
1) Creativity is not a product of any enneagram. Creativity an inherently positive quality (as far as I'm concerned anyway) and doesn't come out of only one specific delusion or set of issues. And make no mistake, that's what an enneagram is. It's an inherently messed up way of viewing the world. It's your personal fatal flaw, the trap you fall into. If you think a particular enneatype is a good thing, a good way of being, you are probably not that type. Try going down one level of disintegration, perhaps.
2) 4s are in no way more creative than other types, that's just their projected image, their constructed idea of themselves. It has no relationship, positive or negative, to their actual level of creativity (if indeed creativity is something that can even be objectively measured).
So, ignoring the incredibly offensive tone of this, no, I wouldn't go with mirroring. It's more soaking up, or being infected, and, for me at least, it's not motivations, it's emotions. So I am unable to “get away from” the emotions of people who are physically near me. I therefore have to address them or try to stop them as if they were my own. In practice, this means I get angry at the person for having emotions at all, at least subconsciously, since I am a thinker and therefore unable to effectively deal with them. This is probably flavored by my hidden agenda (tertiary) Fe and my absolute inability to deal with Fi (PoLR/vulnerable function for the socionics people). I imagine type 9s who are feelers would have a very different experience of similar situations and/or have different places entirely where they run into problems.
Yes, har har, you think 9s are literally incapable of thinking for themselves, you are so clever. I am perfectly capable of “using my own words” and plenty of them, thank you.
Yep, because it's not possible you're just stereotyping both types and too myopic to believe someone could think like you structurally and have different issues.
BONUS ROUND
The first thing is based on simplistic stereotypes of 6 core and doesn't resemble any disintegration line I can think of at the moment. The second thing sounds more like disintegration to 1 than disintegration to 6.
My experience of disintegration to 6 involves being suddenly unable to suppress all the things I have been suppressing (I've used the metaphor of keeping all the troubling things in a box and eventually the box bursts and it all comes raining down), but instead of being able to act on them (a la 3) I am paralyzed by the fear of the all the things that could go wrong (Ne helpfully supplies an infinite menu of possibilities). There's also a sort of manic indecision, where I flit back and forth, unable to determine what most requires my attention and what to do about it.
Not quite, see above. The main theme with 7's disintegration to 1 seems to be a gradual heightening of perfectionism, leading to more and more planning and avoiding and less and less living or acting. “We mustn't do that today, it's sprinkling a little. I'm sure we'd enjoy it much more tomorrow.” Like that. When taken to a crazy level it can become dogmatic to the point of cultishness, letting an external idea of what is right dictate everything in order to avoid making a mistake and missing out as a result. And sure, a heavily disintegrated, dogmatic 7 could get mad at the world for not being “correct” (i.e. not following their particular dogma), but that's hardly the core problem at that point.
“Anger at the incorrectness of it all,” sounds like you mean “anger because other people are stupid and don't make sense,” which is just how Ti rolls on an average day (particularly in ExTPs). What I'm feeling right now, for example.
Really? Because actually, having written those out, the first one sounds like stereotypical Ne behavior when panicking and the second one involves literally denying the existence of other possibilities and somewhat resembles Ne-PoLR (aka thing the type is worst at and most upset by) in socionics (a trait shared by ISFP, ISTP).
But seriously, any enneagram can be paired with any cognitive type for one simple reason: cognitive type =/ behavior. It influences behavior, but so do an incredible number of other things, including enneagram. (Other things that influence behavior include: culture, religion, political beliefs, gender norms, mental disorders, how you were raised and by who, etc.) Cognitive type should not be mistaken for an entire personality description, with built-in morals and new and improved superhuman status! Buy one today! Cognitive type is just what it says on the tin: a description of how your cognition works. It's the bare bones of who you are, not the meat. It's the hardware on which you run your software.
Yes, this is a statement of fact.
Yup, also a statement of fact.
Y—hold on, what? Try 5, mate.
Um, huh? Try using full sentences maybe? Am I to take from this that you are saying ENTP =/ 3? Because while that is technically a true statement, in that those things are not the same category, if you mean those things can not exist in the same person then, huh? Which ENTPs do you think invent something and make a million dollars off it? Hint: ENTPs with an intense work ethic and a deep-seated need for success. This is not even a particularly conflict-heavy type combination so I'm not sure what your problem is.
Oh good, there's the ENTP wank. I was looking for it.
Bolded is literally counterphobic six behavior to a T (also 4, but you haven't mentioned whether you think that type gets the honor of being allowed near ENTP cognition, so it's not relevant here). Actually, 6, there's a good match for the ENTP stereotype in general: love to play devil's advocate, will do things just to provoke a reaction and see what people truly are like, constantly analyzing anything that moves and most things that don't. So yeah, I'm calling it: the ur-ENTP is a social 6. How's that for attachment triad?
Nx dominance, Fe/Ti and E preference regarding the S function.
Type-based tests usually say ENFP, due to slight E preference, N dominance, more or less clear F preference and doubtless preference for P over J.. Sometimes I type INFP and once in a while ENTP.
According to the actual functions I'm ENTP. However, dominant N seems to have unclear E/I direction. This along with S appearing to be used exclusively outwards. Some test even had me ENFJ, probably due to S appearing stronger than T.
Socionics usually IEI, sometimes ILE or occasionally IEE.. Enneagram usually makes me 9w8.
Type-based tests usually say ENFP, due to slight E preference, N dominance, more or less clear F preference and doubtless preference for P over J.. Sometimes I type INFP and once in a while ENTP.
According to the actual functions I'm ENTP. However, dominant N seems to have unclear E/I direction. This along with S appearing to be used exclusively outwards. Some test even had me ENFJ, probably due to S appearing stronger than T.
Socionics usually IEI, sometimes ILE or occasionally IEE.. Enneagram usually makes me 9w8.
Hehe ENTP 9w1 here. I certainly find life interesting with my polarizing perspectives and ideals. I find myself inconsistent in how I am around others either being peaceful and reserved or chaotic and amusing. Sometimes this makes it hard for people to understand me but I’m at a point in life where I don’t need others to understand me. I do have some rules however. If the conversation is serious, like about politics, social dynamics, or someone’s personal struggles I will tuck the ENTP part of myself away. If it is not serious, like cultural references, jokes, and stories I will be the biggest ENTP asshole.
I've met one in real life, he's cute, easy-going, a little innocent, open-minded and eager to learn anything new >_< his Fe is quite developed so he's also a pretty nice person who cares about others' emotions. There's still something mischievous and 'evil' about him though XD
This is much more common type than people realize honestly. Human psychology doesn't care if some combination doesn't seem to make sense at a surface level, like the ENTP and 9. My uncle is one and I've met like 3 and I've met an ENTJ who is a 9 (even by some professional analysis she took). Nines are the type which can appear the most differently, since they're a bit of everything, but nothing properly at the same time.
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