So basically you relate to every type except their main issues and vice... No one can help you with that information. I can help you out but you're gonna have to say more, filling out a questionnaire would be good.

In any case I can already say you're not a 4 nor a 2. You practically ruled out what makes a Four a Four, and wanting to be loved is just a human need thing, it's simply the way Twos go about it and how hard they go at it that makes them Twos. One seems unlikely too simply according to the way you write that comes across as very chill and not concerned all that much, I don't see the inherent perfectionism and rigidness of Ones, even the more casual ones.

Why did you rule out 9 ?

 

Why did you rule out 9 ?

None of the descriptions seem to match my mental landscape. I love the idea of peace and harmony, but I have a very hard time accepting and moving on. I will obsess on things, push for them, and otherwise have no fear of making waves to the point that it has gotten me in trouble at times.

 

Infj 9w8

sp/sx/so

 

Heh, thanks. Would you mind clarifying how/why you came to that?

 

Prerequisites

What age range are you in? Adult

Any disorders or conditions we should know about? None that I'm aware of. ADD?

Main Questions

1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.

tough one... I literally went blank when I read that.

2. What were you like as a kid?

I was very kind and charitable. I wanted to be as good as possible, idealistic to a fault. I also stayed pretty lost in my imagination. The other kids thought I was weird, and by middle school I agreed with them and started to isolate more.

3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?

My dad is great. We've always had a nice chill relationship. I admire him. He's a really solidly good man that is easy to get along with. My mother is very domineering and contentious. I've tried to get along with her as best as I can, but I've never been able to accept the untruths she accuses me of so we've had a lot of arguments. She is far less concerned with the truth than asserting herself. But, in her defense, she's always taken very good care of my survival needs like food, medicine, etc. She was never neglectful. Kinda the opposite, really.

4. What values are important to you?

Kindness. Love. Sharing. Charity. Protection. Loyalty. Defense. Fun. Creativity.

What do you hope to avoid doing or being?

Cruel. Selfish. Weak. Vulnerable. Alone. Unlovable. Boring.

5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood?

Abandonment. Though, I was shown that this was a possibility more than once.
Being trapped. Though, that might have been a phobia since I don't know where it came from.

Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?

I still have a need to actively avoid being abandoned my making myself more lovable, awesome, valuable, etc.
I have developed a need to avoid being or appearing vulnerable as a defense mechanism to keep people from hurting me, pushing me around, etc.
Ironically, I have come to realize that both of these things can cause the very thing they're trying to avoid. I can be too passive and affable with the people I love, and too scary and intimidating to everyone else.

6. a.) How do you see yourself?

Sweet. Compassionate. Dreamer. Frustrated Idealist with a savage core that gets out far too often. Sexual werewolf. Hypercritical troubleshooter that often lacks empathy. Damaged. Depressed. Empty. Needy. Guarded.

b.) How do you want others to see you?

Ideal. Talented. Insightful. A powerful ally or a dangerous foe. Wise. A moral compass. Creative.

c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?

Selfishness. Cruelty. Hypocrisy. Willful ignorance.

7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).

a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others. 1
b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you. 2
c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else. 3

8. Where does the wandering mind take you?

Anywhere. Though usually fantasy and superhero fictions I can't help but to write in my head. Sometimes art projects. Fairly often problems that need solved in the world at large.

What provokes this?

Anything. Often nothing with regards to fantasizing and writing. Problem solving and trouble shooting is always a direct reaction to a specific issue.

9.What makes you feel your best?

Being adored by an enthusiastic lover.

What makes you feel your worst?

Rejection, like genuine rejection from someone who truly knows me and finds who I really am repulsive after I've shown them my best. Strangers not choosing me isn't really a big deal. They don't even know me.

10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:

a.) anger
Frustration. I can flare into a rage, then feel bad if I was mean.

b.) shame
Being too horny or hurting someone that didn't deserve it.

c.) anxiety
Mostly the possibility of rejection or threats to survival (health problems, losing income, debt, etc)

11. Describe how you respond to the following:

a.) stress
I tend to worry excessively and try to get other people's opinions, counsel, and help. When stressed badly enough, I'll blindly 'attack' the stress.

b.) negative unexpected change
I hate this. Like really bad. I will oppose it and fight back almost every time.

c.) conflict
I don't like conflict, but I'm really good at winning it, and am really bad about letting myself get caught up in it until I do win it. I take it too far.

12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group?
Leadership
Why?
Good question. I guess people just tend to follow me. They say I have charisma, but I just have enthusiasm and passion that appears to be infectious.

b.) If put in power, how do you behave?
The same as if I'm not.
Why?
My leadership style seems to come from a genuine drive to get things done and care about people, so I don't really change much other than to take note of any 'official' responsibilities and try to meet them, but mostly I just troubleshoot things as they arise. I'm more reactive than pro-active.

c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you?
Depends on how they use their authority. If they're leaders instead of tyrants, I tend to get on well, especially if they're not pushing against my autonomy. When I am free to choose to help, I am usually compelled to help. When I am forced, I will fight back, resist, and otherwise nope. I can get very vindictive about this and have a need to depose people who abuse power. I've gotten a lot of people who abused power to mistreated me or others fired in my life. I'm not proud of that, but I kind of am.
Why?
Probably my issues with my mom being so domineering.

13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?

I tend to literally sense other people's feelings coming off of them. I don't necessarily adopt those feelings. They remain distinct from me, kind of like hot or cold coming from a heater or air conditioner.

14. Comment on your relationship with trust.

It's fairly easy to earn, but really hard to regain. I'll forive and give people the opportunity to earn it back if they seem sincerely repentant... unless they really backstabbed me or fucked me over.

15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have?
I'm one of those non-religious Christians. I'd have to call it Messianic Taoism or something like that. I have a lot of faith in God, but very little in people. I do believe in miracles and magic. I've seen both too many times to refute them any longer.

Politicaly, I'm more of a libertarian moderate, not to be confused with a capital L Libertarian. I think the least amount government power is the best idea, but I do believe the government and its services are important. The people run the government, not the other way around. I don't believe in legislating beliefs onto people, and I tend to both agree and disagree with the left and right on various issues.

Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?

Probably. My spiritual beliefs are rather core to my being and have been since I was a small child. They've influenced my development greatly. I would assume that it's the opposite for politics, though. My views there are a reaction to who I am.

Extra Questions

Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)

- To constantly push yourself to be “the best”
- To be without needs, well-intentioned
- To replace direct experience with concepts
- To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
- To think that fulfillment is somewhere else
- To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance
- To overuse imagination in searching for yourself It's a bit of an obsession. I want to figure out what's wrong with me so I can be lovable. Also, getting lost in my imagination is reflexive.
- To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient


What's something you are:
a.) thankful you have

Comfort.

b.) wish you could have?

Soulmate.

Why?

These needs are deeper than my understanding.

 

Ah, much better. I'm shocked, you actually do seem like a 9w8. I'm seeing 9w8 2w1 6w7 probaly so/sx from this.

2. What were you like as a kid?

I was very kind and charitable. I wanted to be as good as possible, idealistic to a fault. I also stayed pretty lost in my imagination. The other kids thought I was weird, and by middle school I agreed with them and started to isolate more.

This brief description hints towards a complaint type (1, 2, 6) or perhaps 9.

3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?

My dad is great. We've always had a nice chill relationship. I admire him. He's a really solidly good man that is easy to get along with. My mother is very domineering and contentious. I've tried to get along with her as best as I can, but I've never been able to accept the untruths she accuses me of so we've had a lot of arguments. She is far less concerned with the truth than asserting herself. But, in her defense, she's always taken very good care of my survival needs like food, medicine, etc. She was never neglectful. Kinda the opposite, really.

There's an enneagram theory that tries to connect parental relationships to development of enneatype within a child, but I don't really buy into that so that's all I'll mention. Despite that, you seem to suggest mild distrust over overly domineering/assertive types, which would make you less likely to be 8, 3, or 7 (at least as a core type).

4. What values are important to you?

Kindness. Love. Sharing. Charity. Protection. Loyalty. Defense. Fun. Creativity.

What do you hope to avoid doing or being?

Cruel. Selfish. Weak. Vulnerable. Alone. Unlovable. Boring.

The vibe these give off is 2 and 9. Your focus on defense and vulnerability suggests that you have 8 influence (probably 9w8), your mention of kind, love, and specific mention of evasion of being unlovable is a 2 thing. Boredom may be 7 but not sure.

5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood?

Abandonment. Though, I was shown that this was a possibility more than once.
Being trapped. Though, that might have been a phobia since I don't know where it came from.

Trapped is a 7 thing, abandonment is common among 2s and 6s

Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?

I still have a need to actively avoid being abandoned my making myself more lovable, awesome, valuable, etc.
I have developed a need to avoid being or appearing vulnerable as a defense mechanism to keep people from hurting me, pushing me around, etc.
Ironically, I have come to realize that both of these things can cause the very thing they're trying to avoid. I can be too passive and affable with the people I love, and too scary and intimidating to everyone else.

What I bolded secures that your heart fix is definitely 2, these are the core fears surrounding type 2 and core behaviors. Your evasion towards feeling vulnerable is likely 8 influence, though you can get that from 2 as well (because of disintegration and such)

6. a.) How do you see yourself?

Sweet. Compassionate. Dreamer. Frustrated Idealist with a savage core that gets out far too often. Sexual werewolf. Hypercritical troubleshooter that often lacks empathy. Damaged. Depressed. Empty. Needy. Guarded.

b.) How do you want others to see you?

Ideal. Talented. Insightful. A powerful ally or a dangerous foe. Wise. A moral compass. Creative.

Lot of 8 words (powerful ally/enemy, savage core, sexual werewolf). You strike me as a 9w8 core. A bit of this, such as the guarded bit strikes me as 6. Your idealism could be attributed to a 7 and 1 wing if this questionnaire is going the direction I believe it is. You could just be an idealist generally as well (in an mbti sense)

c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?

Selfishness. Cruelty. Hypocrisy. Willful ignorance.

7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).

a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others. 1
b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you. 2
c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else. 3

sx and 8 probably

8. Where does the wandering mind take you?

Anywhere. Though usually fantasy and superhero fictions I can't help but to write in my head. Sometimes art projects. Fairly often problems that need solved in the world at large.

so/sx or sx/so, not sp/sx or sx/sp

What provokes this?

Anything. Often nothing with regards to fantasizing and writing. Problem solving and trouble shooting is always a direct reaction to a specific issue.

6

9.What makes you feel your best?

Being adored by an enthusiastic lover.

What makes you feel your worst?

Rejection, like genuine rejection from someone who truly knows me and finds who I really am repulsive after I've shown them my best. Strangers not choosing me isn't really a big deal. They don't even know me.

This screams type 2.

10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:

a.) anger
Frustration. I can flare into a rage, then feel bad if I was mean.

b.) shame
Being too horny or hurting someone that didn't deserve it.

c.) anxiety
Mostly the possibility of rejection or threats to survival (health problems, losing income, debt, etc)

a is definitely 9w8, b could be pretty much anything, c is specifically 6

11. Describe how you respond to the following:

a.) stress
I tend to worry excessively and try to get other people's opinions, counsel, and help. When stressed badly enough, I'll blindly 'attack' the stress.

b.) negative unexpected change
I hate this. Like really bad. I will oppose it and fight back almost every time.

c.) conflict
I don't like conflict, but I'm really good at winning it, and am really bad about letting myself get caught up in it until I do win it. I take it too far.

a is super 6 so varient thing, b is probably also 6, c is definitely a 9w8 thing. 9w8 don't like conflict, but are often good at dealing with it. The 8 wing is what brings things "too far"

12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group?
Leadership
Why?
Good question. I guess people just tend to follow me. They say I have charisma, but I just have enthusiasm and passion that appears to be infectious.

b.) If put in power, how do you behave?
The same as if I'm not.
Why?
My leadership style seems to come from a genuine drive to get things done and care about people, so I don't really change much other than to take note of any 'official' responsibilities and try to meet them, but mostly I just troubleshoot things as they arise. I'm more reactive than pro-active.

c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you?
Depends on how they use their authority. If they're leaders instead of tyrants, I tend to get on well, especially if they're not pushing against my autonomy. When I am free to choose to help, I am usually compelled to help. When I am forced, I will fight back, resist, and otherwise nope. I can get very vindictive about this and have a need to depose people who abuse power. I've gotten a lot of people who abused power to mistreated me or others fired in my life. I'm not proud of that, but I kind of am.
Why?
Probably my issues with my mom being so domineering.

While a quality leader you seem very tolerant and adaptable/accepting to the needs and opinions of others, so I guess 9w8 would still fit. You mention troubleshooter a lot, which is a 6 thing.

13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?

I tend to literally sense other people's feelings coming off of them. I don't necessarily adopt those feelings. They remain distinct from me, kind of like hot or cold coming from a heater or air conditioner.

14. Comment on your relationship with trust.

It's fairly easy to earn, but really hard to regain. I'll forgive and give people the opportunity to earn it back if they seem sincerely repentant... unless they really backstabbed me or fucked me over.

Ooh 14 is super 6. I didn't get much from 13.

15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have?
I'm one of those non-religious Christians. I'd have to call it Messianic Taoism or something like that. I have a lot of faith in God, but very little in people. I do believe in miracles and magic. I've seen both too many times to refute them any longer.

Politicaly, I'm more of a libertarian moderate, not to be confused with a capital L Libertarian. I think the least amount government power is the best idea, but I do believe the government and its services are important. The people run the government, not the other way around. I don't believe in legislating beliefs onto people, and I tend to both agree and disagree with the left and right on various issues.

Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?

Probably. My spiritual beliefs are rather core to my being and have been since I was a small child. They've influenced my development greatly. I would assume that it's the opposite for politics, though. My views there are a reaction to who I am.

I'll keep that in mind

Extra Questions

Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)

- To constantly push yourself to be “the best”
- To be without needs, well-intentioned
- To replace direct experience with concepts
- To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
- To think that fulfillment is somewhere else
- To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance
- To overuse imagination in searching for yourself It's a bit of an obsession. I want to figure out what's wrong with me so I can be lovable. Also, getting lost in my imagination is reflexive.
- To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient

You picked the 4 response but your explanation was oriented around 2 fears and values.

What's something you are:
a.) thankful you have

Comfort.

b.) wish you could have?

Soulmate.

Why?

These needs are deeper than my understanding.

I guess this aligns with 9 and 6.

Overall, I think 9w8 2w1 6w7 so/sx or sx/so fits based on this (you choose variants, typically I can pick out which two variants a person uses but am not so great at choosing the order). Let me know if you have any questions.

 

That one question got me wondering what I'd be like without my spiritual views. I'd be quite a monster, I think. I'd feel a lot more justified in my anger, selfishness, and aggression. I avoid these things because they're what make someone a bad person, and I'm rather constantly aware of suppressing them. Sometimes I fail to, and then I feel like a bad person.

Also, I don't really fear pushing people away by being genuine, direct, honest, etc. I can be too much, but that's just who I am and if people can't handle that, they're free to leave. It's upsetting when people leave, but there's nothing in my psychological DNA that stops me from taking this approach. I will tell people when they're wrong, incorrect, or otherwise causing problems for themselves or others - because I would want to be told. I have to very actively choose to tone it down in places where it's required, such as an office job. I am consciously aware that it's self defeating and a contradiction to be so unconcerned about something I'd prefer to avoid, but it just doesn't stop me.

Person can't handle who I really am? Good riddance. I guess I feel like they are bad people if they can't handle me because I know I am a good person.

Person leaves anyway after connecting with who I really am? Devastating. I am clearly the bad person if a good person leaves me.

 

I asked because that spirituality thing seems to be a common thread in Ni-Fe and Fe-Ni 9w8s that I have met.

They often have a very mystical way of thinking about them and end up transferring that out into the world , through subjects like spirituality or the like. I knew an ENFJ 8w9 who thought in terms of astrological profiles, and would link it up to her experiences in the world, it was magical and seamless when it came to her describing all of it, she would connect the dots in the most expansive of ways. It was beautiful.

When you said “psychological DNA”, that made me laugh a bit. actually, that manner of speaking actually reminds me of someone - Carl Jung.

 

@Scadag

That is much better. I see a lot of 6 and 9. Heart fix seems to be 4, although I could see 2 as well. I'm thinking you're either a core Six or a stressed out/in a rough life spot 9w8. Do you relate more to gut triad or head triad issues ? In any case you definitely vibe reactive and super ego to me, which hypothetically would support type 6.

So blindspot is clear. Not sure whether sx/sp or sp/sx.

Unrelated: Also not INFJ, that typing was nebulous. Out of sheer curiosity, do you know your MBTI type ? You remind me of a girl I used to be close with.

 

sx is the only thing about Enneagram l am certain of.

as for MBTI, that's getting narrowed down. Depends on the test / author. Seems to be ENFJ most often, though INFJ is also close, as is ENFP if you take raw axis... but my function preferences lean pretty clearly Beta.

 

l relate more to heart triad issues and gut triad solutions. Most people IRL who are into this stuff think l am an 8, except for my exes who seem to think l am a 1 or 2. l got my mom into this stuff. She's pretty clearly an 8 and insists l am a 6. My dad is a classic 9.

 

I had originally assumed I was a 4 and an sx due to the basic descriptions of 4 and sx is so accurately me. But, all of the 4 sx descriptions sound like some sort of nightmare person who is horribly self absorbed, hateful, and envious - usually the sort of hypocritical malcontents that I clash with online when I argue. I have a lot of flaws, but that's not who I am at all. It's not how I do. I'm prone to being too idealistic, critical, cautious, and outwardly cold. My mom always called me a 'stone faced little prick' because I'm so seldom emotionally expressive unless I'm in a 'positive' mood, and even then I'm notorious for being 'hard to read'.

As for my gender, I'm not upset or anything. I'm not one of those people who subscribe to gender identity or the lack of it.

 

That questionnaire says 1 sx to me.

It's mostly superego and gut (1), leaning reactive (sx).

Lots of focus on good and bad, being a good person not being a bad person, good people vs bad people, idealism, anger, resentment, feeling bad about anger, frustration, correcting people, fixing problems, helping people because it's the right thing to do, being resolute, standing one's ground (1) and also love, wanting love, needing love, to be loved, being intense and direct, passionate, enthusiastic (sx).

I can see elements of 2 in helping people and wanting to be desired, especially since sx, but I can also see elements of 9 in wanting to be comfortable and preferring to avoid causing trouble. I don't really see a wing emerging here. There's a lot of 2 and 9 in it. That strongly implies 1.

You mentioned your non-religious views and how they're central to who you are. That's very 1 to focus on virtues and identify with them internally. I'm guessing that those virtues include being nice to people, not making waves, and a host of other things you adopted from your dad who you say is a 9, while at the same time you associate corruption and evil with traits like selfishness and power that you resent from your mom who you say is an 8? That bit about your politics sounds very 9 influenced with all the live and let live approach but it also sounds resentful toward 8 energy with the idea that power for the sake of power is inherently evil. The focus is on what is good and evil.

I could be wrong here, but on the subconscious level that Enneagram actually operates, it looks to me like your focus is on good and evil, and all of your other needs pivot from it. You say you want to know what's wrong with you (good vs evil) so that you can be lovable (sx), but at the same time you say you have no chill when correcting people (good vs evil) yet feel bad about it when you take it too far (good vs evil) and you lead by example not because you want power (chasing what is good to stand against what's bad).

This isn't 4 because there's no envy, no focus on what others have done to hurt you, and even when you mention it you seem to brush it off and defend your 8 mom to make sure no one thinks bad of her because that would make you a bad son.

This isn't 6 because there's no sense of needing the support of other people, not enough focus on potential threats. Granted, a 6 fix is almost certain, but this just isn't the anxious confusion of a 6. Your answers are seeking the correct answer, and since you can't find it, you're asking for input. You don't have the tone of someone who assumes others are experts. You're not looking for certainty. You're looking for correct.

This isn't 2 because there's no sense of other people's needs or focus on them. You say you react to those needs, but have trouble anticipating them. There's no way a 2 wouldn't be reflexively trying to anticipate other people's needs, wants, etc, let alone have that as a blind spot. You're also extremely critical of yourself and others. A 2 isn't going to do that because people don't like to be criticized.

This is also why you're not a 9. You're too shamelessly critical. Just like a 2, a 9 isn't going to be critical of others, but in the case of 9s it's a fear of making waves and getting rejected or abandoned. This crap about 9w8s being like that is crap. They're not. If you push them, they will stand their ground and fight back, but they will not 'take it too far' on the regular. They're not at war with their anger. They deny it. You don't embrace your anger and use it for fuel. That's 8. You are at war with your anger. That's 1.

 

This is also why you're not a 9. You're too shamelessly critical. Just like a 2, a 9 isn't going to be critical of others, but in the case of 9s it's a fear of making waves and getting rejected or abandoned. This crap about 9w8s being like that is crap. They're not. If you push them, they will stand their ground and fight back, but they will not 'take it too far' on the regular. They're not at war with their anger. They deny it. You don't embrace your anger and use it for fuel. That's 8. You are at war with your anger. That's 1.

This can also be an w8, or an 8 influence. They are often challenging and confrontational, as a means to develop strength in the situation, or show power in some way.

Criticism I believe would be more a w1 type of thing, but it’s more as a means to create a sense of subjective good/responsibility, in the situation.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is a type 1w9

“Help others and give something back. I guarantee you will discover that while public service improves the lives and the world around you, its greatest reward is the enrichment and new meaning it will bring your own life.”

the communication is critical of others in the way it tries to fix them, but also emphasizes “responsibility” in the social and relationships sphere. “You need to engage not just in public service, but also helping others directly”, that emphasises the 1 outlook, on life being for some greater, often subjectively defined good.

People or situations are fixed or criticised, so far as achieving that subjective good.

Rashida Jones is a 9w8, same as Natalie Imbruglia. You may see common behavioural patterns between these two.

I would say Logan Lerman is also INFJ 9w8.

“For me, being able to be vulnerable is difficult, but it's just something that I feel comfortable doing. I need to fully understand why, the thought-process behind the character and I have to believe it. That comes from a lot of preparation”

. The criticism, is a means to becoming stronger or have a better construction in some form, whether that be intellectually, physically (in terms of his performance). Likewise, both the OP and Logan Lerman comment on vulnerability, as sensitivity is something that opposes the outlook or motivation, to be stronger. It seems they both do not like the idea or coming off as too pushy/powerful but at the same time, (in a conflicting manner) have difficulties with coming off as too vulnerable.

As @Scadag had previously said :

I have developed a need to avoid being or appearing vulnerable as a defense mechanism to keep people from hurting me, pushing me around, etc.
Ironically, I have come to realize that both of these things can cause the very thing they're trying to avoid. I can be too passive and affable with the people I love, and too scary and intimidating to everyone else.

 

I have developed a need to avoid being or appearing vulnerable as a defense mechanism to keep people from hurting me, pushing me around, etc.
Ironically, I have come to realize that both of these things can cause the very thing they're trying to avoid. I can be too passive and affable with the people I love, and too scary and intimidating to everyone else.

This looks more like 6 sx to me than 9. 6 sx has that prickly defense mechanism that I associate with pit bulls. They try to seem strong and scary - and usually succeed - to protect their sweet lovable inner puppy that just wants to be petted. They're very aware of their need for security and comfort, and the fear of not having it motivates them to 'armor up'. It's similar to 8, but in the case of 6 sx, it's all defense to protect the sweet little helper that wants to be safe. For 8s, it's to insure that they get what they want and remain in power.

I have never known of a 9 doing this. They tend to be affable to avoid harm. They yield and dodge. They like to be strong simply for the sake of being strong, because they're a gut type, and to have to power to remain stubborn when they want to. It's not a need to intimidate. It's a need to be 'strong enough' to do what they need to, and so they won't have to yield before yielding even becomes an issue.

I can see how this quote could seem 9 due to the specific words, but the overall context with the rest of the questionnaire seems 6 sx. I'm pretty sure Scadag has a 6 fix. If he's not a 1 sx, he's probably a 6 sx core with a 1 fix. His mentions of his 9 dad explain why he developed these mechanisms. As a 1, he'd have seen them as 'good' and 'ideal'. As a 6, he'd have seen them as 'integrated' and 'evolved'. Both give Scadag the motivation to adopt these behaviors. However, those behaviors would have made him vulnerable and his reaction to that was to toughen up and be intimidating (6 sx) or more likely based on everything else he said, sees those affable behaviors as ideal but has developed a wall of resentment and passion for fixing things that other people find intimidating (1 sx).

But, you might be right. He might be a 9. I'm just offering my perspective since this is a type me thread and he's looking for outside perspectives. He's the only one who really knows. I'm just going from what I've read. There were too many anti-9 flags for me to assume 9, such as taking it too far, being intense, intimidating, not really tracking other people's expectations, etc.

Funny that you mention Arnold, because I could totally see Arnold saying a lot of these things about himself, all the focus on trying to be a good and helpful person and realizing that he'd become intimidating in the process of trying to be both good and effective in a world where both of those things require strength and passion. I could see Arnold being surprised to find out the impact he has on people, and I could also see Arnold taking the same approach of asking people to help him identify what he's doing wrong so he can change it. I could totally see Arnold not realizing that all of it is based on his war with his own anger, and having a mindblown moment when he finally does. That's what Scadag seems to be doing here. He seems to be poking at the veil, trying to find the edges so he can lift it, and when he does, he will see the rabbit hole that is his anger at being angry, because of his passion to be a good person, which causes his resentment against his own needs which only serve to make him more angry at being angry. I really can't see the person who wrote this realizing that behind the veil is a need to avoid which makes him do nothing which causes him outward pressures that make him react by avoiding. I could maybe this person finding behind the veil a need for safety and security that causes him to be strong and intimidating but also helpful and critical which pushes people away and makes him worry about safety and security, but it would have to be a very complex version of that mechanism involving idealism and a very 1-ish niche in the support network he'd be operating in.

 

This looks more like 6 sx to me than 9. 6 sx has that prickly defense mechanism that I associate with pit bulls. They try to seem strong and scary - and usually succeed - to protect their sweet lovable inner puppy that just wants to be petted. They're very aware of their need for security and comfort, and the fear of not having it motivates them to 'armor up'. It's similar to 8, but in the case of 6 sx, it's all defense to protect the sweet little helper that wants to be safe. For 8s, it's to insure that they get what they want and remain in power.

i think this is not very true. I would only emphasise this, because you have gained self insights into your type through the type six description. (If it meant nothing for your self insight, I wouldn’t bother )

Type sixes are not described as what you described in the bolded. They do not have an interior need for comfort, and would compromise comfort if necessary to maintain security. Likewise, that sounds more like a type nine, as a type nine is characterises by an internal need for stability and consistency in the world

Look at Malcolm X or Rick Grimes, both type sixes. Type sixes and 6w7s.

“There is no better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance next time.”
— Malcolm X
​

As you can see, it’s not wanting comfort, but a commitment to a higher cause, a security in something other than himself, whether inside his own mind (as a security in ideals or concepts or outside his mind, as a security in groups or people)

Although, I do agree that they relate to the feeling of Love, it is mostly for some greater ideal (i.e. justice) or clan. Remembering, that Malcolm X also had much at stake as he placed all his “love” into the Muslim brotherhood/group he was a part of.

Rick Grimes also displays this exact same pattern.

 

Thanks everyone for all the insights. You made some very interesting points. I had never considered 9, but now I will. Looks like it's down to 1, 9, or 6 with a 2 or 4 fix. The one thing that doesn't seem to be in question is 6 as a fix or core. I've been leaning toward 6w7 sx/so as the core type.

This really seemed to hit home:

"I could maybe this person finding behind the veil a need for safety and security that causes him to be strong and intimidating but also helpful and critical which pushes people away and makes him worry about safety and security"

I could also see a lot of what Osagi said about 1, but that line above seems a lot more like what's going on in here than not, even though I wasn't really aware of it until I started getting into this stuff. At war with my anger? Kinda yeah. So, if 6w7 sx/so makes a sort of 8 effect, then I'm probably a 1 fix. I seem to do a lot of the 1 things, and that behind the veil thing, I can see that applying more to 1 than 9 or 8. I don't avoid which causes me problems that I must avoid, and I don't seek power which causes me problems that require more power. I really do want to be a good person, but I've got needs, resentment, and passion.

As for 2 vs 4, I don't really envy and I don't really pride. I don't track what other people have that I don't, nor do I track what they need. I don't need to be unique, but I do need to be genuine. But, despite wanting love really bad (and maybe I should clarify that I mean romantic love, as opposed to love in general which I really only need acceptance / loyalty from people) I feel damaged, broken, and unworthy. I guess there's an underlying shame that I've accepted and internalized that leaves me in a default state of outsiderhood. I'd probably have to go with 4 as a fix, especially if 1 and 6 create a 2-ish effect due to all the superego.

I read up on tritypes.

146 could work. 469 could work. 468 sounded like me. 268 sounded a lot like me. Then again, I might be an ENFJ rather than INFJ, and if so I could see that contributing to the 2 effect as well as the 8, especially with 6w7 sx/so. 6w7 core could make ENFJ more INFJ-ish, amplifying Ni and Ti as it focuses on predictions and such to remain safe. If the 9 effect is just a wing, my dad's influence, and the connection to 6, then I suppose 146 could be the case. Then again, 6w7 sx/so could be making INFJ more ENFJ. I suppose it could go either way there.

In either case, I'm starting to feel like this is a good fit. We'll see how long it lasts LOL

 

As for 2 vs 4, I don't really envy and I don't really pride. I don't track what other people have that I don't, nor do I track what they need. I don't need to be unique, but I do need to be genuine. But, despite wanting love really bad (and maybe I should clarify that I mean romantic love, as opposed to love in general which I really only need acceptance / loyalty from people) I feel damaged, broken, and unworthy. I guess there's an underlying shame that I've accepted and internalized that leaves me in a default state of outsiderhood. I'd probably have to go with 4 as a fix, especially if 1 and 6 create a 2-ish effect due to all the superego.

Yeah, this is 4 (for your fix).

Schwarzy is a textbook 3w2.

You're typing at Sp/So now ? When did that happen ?

I've always been typing at sp/so, but I've really been questioning it lately. Instincts are the one thing I've never been able to nail down for myself. What did you think I was before, or perhaps what impression did you get from me? I think most people on forum see me as so/sp. :Smilies1:

 

My objections to 6 are generally stereotypical, and the more I read about sx being the counter type and how it departs from the stereotype, especially on the surface level, the more it seems to have merit.

I definitely identify more with the outward behaviors of 7 than 5. I'm prone to fantasy and immersive distractions, and I'm not especially stingy. I dare say I suffer from neurosis of the giver. I want everyone to be happy, and have little problem self abasing or jackassing in order to get the hahas going. I feel like I have superego and id, and my ego isn't well developed. Can't remember what was said exactly, but that was a good point. 4's and 5's seem terribly selfish to me, and even 6w5's seem to have a self oriented perspective that is a bit alien to me. Seems detached and heartless or something at times. "I'm over here. You're over there." I'm more of a "Let's all, and we can" sort of approach.

I can also see myself doing the 9-ish things for 6-ish reasons. I'm more worried about consequences than motivated by harmony. It just happens that harmony is a great way to avoid consequences. When no one is angry, there are seldom problems. I suppose I also repress my anger because I'm afraid of the consequences, rather than trying to avoid being a bad person. I want to be a good person, but I do have a dark side I try to keep under wraps, again because potential consequences. But, at the same time, there are consequences that I just don't consider or give much of a fuck about until they happen, and then I fight them as unjust. For example, I have a hard time predicting what will cause me to get rejected or abandoned, likely because I've developed such thick emotional armor that it's difficult for me to empathize with people who haven't. I see people like that as weak, but in the "you're gonna get hurt" kind of way and a sense of "how have you not been made tougher by life" fascination. My reaction is to try to toughen them up so they are less likely to get hurt. I'll prefer to use sarcastic humor, but the intent is rooted in my fear of their consequences. This is also why I tend to be critical of others, and why it comes off as anger or negativity. It's actually fear / apprehension and my reaction to fear is anger.

Shit. I am a 6.

Okay, let's get the fixes, wings, and this MBTI type hammered out.

 

My objections to 6 are generally stereotypical, and the more I read about sx being the counter type and how it departs from the stereotype, especially on the surface level, the more it seems to have merit.

I didn't think I was a 6 for a long time because I am almost the opposite of the stereotype. CP6sx is almost the inverse of the standard 6.

Shit. I am a 6.

I legit lol'd because I know that feel.

Okay, let's get the fixes, wings, and this MBTI type hammered out.

Well, I've assumed you're a 1, a 4, and now a 6, so you've got my vote for 146. As for MBTI, you seem more ENFJ to me from your scores in the other thread and things you've said, but I'm not gonna lie here. I could easily see you as an INFJ. I guess that's going to be up to you to decide, and boils down to subtle things like:

Do you have to focus a little to do Ni (ENFJ) or Fe (INFJ)?
Do you tend to Ti (INFJ) or Se (ENFJ) when you're having fun, especially when you're being a little mischievous (Ti) or naughty (Se)?
Is Ti (ENFJ) fascinating to you and something you feel compelled to master yet kinda struggle with, or is it Se (INFJ)?
Do you Ni (INFJ) whether your want to or not, or do you feel compelled to Fe (ENFJ) when nothing else is going on?

THE NINE STYLES: Sixes – Tom Condon | Nine Points Magazine

I always liked his description of the CP6. Though, I always think of it more like 6 = Zebra, CP6 = Elephant. Elephants are social animals that are always on the lookout and charge the danger. They also have thick skin. But, they're not generally aggressive and prefer to be tranquil and helpful.

http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-f...149404-naranjos-character-neurosis-cowardice-paranoid-character-accusation.html

As a CP6, I've never really jived with this description. In fact, this specific description is one of the main reasons I wasn't open to the possibility of 6.

 

@Scadag

Tell me how you feel about these descriptions:

http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-forum-loyalist/73144-enneagram-type-6-proper-description.html

THE NINE STYLES: Sixes – Tom Condon | Nine Points Magazine

http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-f...149404-naranjos-character-neurosis-cowardice-paranoid-character-accusation.html

 

First one... I suppose I could see it, especially when I was a pre-teen.

Second one, wow, especially the counterphobic. That really hit home on a lot of levels.

Third one... I'm not sure what I read there. It's really hard to follow. I didn't like some of it. I don't think I'm that cowardly. I can see how my apprehensions motivate me, but I'm not sure that they run so deep or intense. I want to avoid pain, problems, setbacks, issues, danger, but I don't really see myself reacting like that. I'm more focused on being strong enough to deal with it or skilled enough to avoid it. In both cases, alert enough to see it coming. Other than that, I don't feel like I worry that much. I feel longing/craving more than I feel anxious.

 

If 9 involves aggressively stalking and beating strangers, actively seeking and creating conflict, then I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what 9 is.

 

This is some serious beating around the bush. It's a pretty obvious distinction: Under stress Nines block out problems, they numb themselves (also what is called as the narcotization defense mechanism in Enneagram). Sixes zero in on it.
@Scadag

You're not a core 9. Too much reactivity, too much superego (the "must statements, the condemning of people's actions), too much potential hostility and wariness towards the world. The vigilante mentality is as far of the 9 program as can be: "Needing familiar environments, relationships and comfort, as well as routines and a sense of wellness to return them a profound “sense of self”."

Hero complex is a thing you find in Ones, Twos, Sixes, and Eights. It seems people overblow w8 on a 9 the same way they overblow Inferior Se on an INTJ. It's not a RPG equipment that gives you a badass streak, it just gives some agressive tendencies to a very passive person, which flare up mostly under stress. In this case it doesn't color the person's worldview the way it would be implied for OP, it just manifests as a need to (clumsily) discharge a part of anger on the environment in hope that some control is gained and peace is achieved. And I'm not talking about putting people into their place "silk glove in a iron fist" style, but kind of like your dad passively agressively slamming doors and sighing every fucking 5 minutes until he irritates you enough to do your chores. Positively it makes a Nine less conflict avoidant, but not more likely to seek out conflicts and grab the bull by the horns.

Type Nine—Levels of Development

Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Become self-possessed, feeling autonomous and fulfilled: have great equanimity and contentment because they are present to themselves. Paradoxically, at one with self, and thus able to form more profound relationships. Intensely alive, fully connected to self and others.

Level 2: Deeply receptive, accepting, unselfconscious, emotionally stable and serene. Trusting of self and others, at ease with self and life, innocent and simple. Patient, unpretentious, good-natured, genuinely nice people.

Level 3: Optimistic, reassuring, supportive: have a healing and calming influence—harmonizing groups, bringing people together: a good mediator, synthesizer, and communicator.

Average Levels

Level 4: Fear conflicts, so become self-effacing and accommodating, idealizing others and "going along" with their wishes, saying "yes" to things they do not really want to do. Fall into conventional roles and expectations. Use philosophies and stock sayings to deflect others.

Level 5: Active, but disengaged, unreflective, and inattentive. Do not want to be affected, so become unresponsive and complacent, walking away from problems, and "sweeping them under the rug." Thinking becomes hazy and ruminative, mostly comforting fantasies, as they begin to "tune out" reality, becoming oblivious. Emotionally indolent, unwillingness to exert self or to focus on problems: indifference.

Level 6: Begin to minimize problems, to appease others and to have "peace at any price." Stubborn, fatalistic, and resigned, as if nothing could be done to change anything. Into wishful thinking, and magical solutions. Others frustrated and angry by their procrastination and unresponsiveness.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Can be highly repressed, undeveloped, and ineffectual. Feel incapable of facing problems: become obstinate, dissociating self from all conflicts. Neglectful and dangerous to others.

Level 8: Wanting to block out of awareness anything that could affect them, they dissociate so much that they eventually cannot function: numb, depersonalized.

Level 9: They finally become severely disoriented and catatonic, abandoning themselves, turning into shattered shells. Multiple personalities possible. Generally corresponds to the Schizoid and Dependent personality disorders.

Riso and Hudson fucked up a few things, but health levels is generally not one of them.

What Scadag is describing seems more like a positive view towards the integration line to 9, reinforced by a potential 9w8 fix, than anything. All of this said, I think I've contributed all I had to this thread, so now it's up to OP to decide what he makes from all this.

 

This is some serious beating around the bush. It's a pretty obvious distinction: Under stress Nines block out problems, they numb themselves (also what is called as the narcotization defense mechanism in Enneagram). Sixes zero in on it.
@Scadag

You're not a core 9. Too much reactivity, too much superego (the "must statements, the condemning of people's actions), too much potential hostility and wariness towards the world. The vigilante mentality is as far of the 9 program as can be: "Needing familiar environments, relationships and comfort, as well as routines and a sense of wellness to return them a profound “sense of self”."

Hero complex is a thing you find in Ones, Twos, Sixes, and Eights. It seems people overblow w8 on a 9 the same way they overblow Inferior Se on an INTJ. It's not a RPG equipment that gives you a badass streak, it just gives some agressive tendencies to a very passive person, which flare up mostly under stress. In this case it doesn't color the person's worldview the way it would be implied for OP, it just manifests as a need to (clumsily) discharge a part of anger on the environment in hope that some control is gained and peace is achieved. And I'm not talking about putting people into their place "silk glove in a iron fist" style, but kind of like your dad passively agressively slamming doors and sighing every fucking 5 minutes until he irritates you enough to do your chores. Positively it makes a Nine less conflict avoidant, but not more likely to seek out conflicts and grab the bull by the horns.

Riso and Hudson fucked up a few things, but health levels is generally not one of them.

What Scadag is describing seems more like a positive view towards the integration line to 9, reinforced by a potential 9w8 fix, than anything. All of this said, I think I've contributed all I had to this thread, so now it's up to OP to decide what he makes from all this.

So, just to clarify, you're seeing core 6?

 

Do I see myself as someone who overthinks in terms of in-group dynamics, operates from a need to defend and protect by attacking and resisting, pointing out the problems others are missing, has no problem being resolutely contentious for what I feel to be a good cause, being drawn to the idea of a higher power that is greater than any given institution's version of it, and changing my entire paradigm when presented with new information that invalidates the old?

Quite.

 

Are you trying to tell me that an 80 year old fictional character that has been penned by more writers than can be named without extensive research isn't a perfectly well defined personality according to the Enneagram?

Poppycock!

 

Well, I'm going to consider case closed on me being a 6w7 sx/so - unless anyone can present a good argument to the contrary.

As for the fixes, meh. The more I look at the tritype theory, the more it just seems like these are specific ways in which the core type manifests. At this point, I'm not even sure that I subscribe to wings, but I am more inclined to distract myself with things than to hunker down and investigate - though I certainly do both. So, I'm not sure if I even want to bother trying to pin down fixes. I do things that are 1, 2, 4, 8, and 9, but not for the reasons that any of those types do those things.

I'm also going to consider case closed on me being an INFJ, probably that IEI-Fe version from Socionics - unless anyone can present a good argument to the contrary.

Thanks to everyone for all the help in this thread. Even if I don't agree with some of you, your input helped me reason my way through the process, and also deepen my understanding of how these systems work.

 

So... my therapist thinks I have PTSD, the kind that happens to kids between 5 and 12 which affects their development, and it's probably severe. Instead of recurring memories, it's associative anxiety.

I'm wondering if that has an affect on my Enneagram, as in whether or not it's throwing off what my type seems to be. Seems like PTSD could make me seem like a 6 sx if I'm not one.

 

I would assume that could have an affect, yes. I would suggest isolating the PTSD symptoms and behaviors then seeing what's left in your motivation set. Go from there.

But, now that you mention it, the things you've said in these threads could certainly be someone with a condition the APA has been considering adding to the official list.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/mar07/diagnosis.aspx

 

Easier said than done. I wasn't aware that I had PTSD, and it's from early development, so I'm uncertain where it starts and I begin.

 

If I were to remove the PTSD elements from my personality, like anxiety and vigilance and resentment, I'm left with a very needy child who needs desperately to be loved. I'm sure this is a result of my PTSD, but this isn't a typical symptom. It's my own reaction to it.

 

I think at this point what you need to do is forget the Enneagram and focus on actual therapy, as typology won’t explain nor help you solve the issues you’re carrying. Take care and good luck buddy.

 

Um, wow. Yeah. This goes deeper than preferences. If you have a therapist, you should stick with that, like really hard. You have a central theme of needing to be loved that probably goes a lot deeper than anything Enneagram can help you with. Sounds like you've got some pretty heavy abandonment and abuse issues. Enneagram is for more typical patterns of development. Yours appears to be rather extreme and atypical.

But, you're here looking for help on Enneagram, so let me say this: I now understand why you're so confused about your type.

You have a lot of things going on that look like various types. I could see elements of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 or 8 in that. Hell, maybe even 7 or a 5 sx. I don't think you're going to really get it sorted until you get the PTSD issues straightened out. If you need someone to talk to, PM me. Sounds like you're about to start making some breakthroughs in your therapy that you're probably not expecting.