I disagree that this is a systemic attitude among INFJs.

The functions of Ni-Fe are perfectly equipped to come to grips with violence. Take Mel Gibson (INFJ) for example.

 

I react that way to injustice; not to violence itself. When I feel it's a person's just punishment, I can even enjoy it. That may sound bad, but it is what it is.

 

Yes, I agree.

Violence committed against an innocent child turns my stomach.

But UFC? They are consenting adults engaged in a competition. There are also just wars and if you take a look at the police system you realize that police officers are basically the legitimized arm of domestic violent authority of the Local/State governments.

In many ways, our society is built upon violence and that's not necessarily a bad thing, considering the alternative.

 

Against unfair violence...children and the like, yes that blows my gut and mind! The other types of violence not so much. I like how @Btmangan stated it above.^^^ It's the aftermath... blood and gore that gets to me. I have witnessed a fist fight or two in my time and helped with the nuturing part afterwards. Then when done with my task I sort of fall apart temporarily. As for tv, I have been known to leave the room giving some excuse when I know something really ugly is going to happen. But that is just tv. I'd be a good nurse, if my emotions would leave me alone afterwards!

 

I think MBTI INFJ translates to Socionics INFp anyway. (With Socionics INFj = MBTI INFP)

For me, I can get squeamish if my Fe is running wild, but most of the time I take it in stride. I don't like it, and I very rarely see violence as just. That's enough for me to call things to a halt, but it's not so much of an instinctual thing as described here, as I know things can't end well.

 

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE boxing, especially in it's various golden ages.... not that much of a fan of MMA, but I do catch the really good fights, which are best when they are both striking. These competitive sports can be really violent. I don't think it works this way. Although I can't watch those really violent videos of people dying, when people get hurt I feel it in my body, which is probably just projection. But I can't deal with this sort of violence at all -- whenever I see anything that can potentially hurt a person, even if I don't like them, I make precautions so they don't get hurt, im sort of Obsessed about that. Hate to see people in pain. But I watch Boxing and MMA, which is interesting.

 

It could be argued, I suppose, that INFJs have an extreme aversion to sadism, but sadism often goes hand in hand with vengeance, and INFJs can be incredibly vengeful, considering the capacity of Ni-Fe to develop strong ethical principles regarding "justice".

 

I can't stand violence or seeing people in pain. I honestly have no clue why people think watching others fall or get hurt is funny. People who laugh at things like this really annoy me, and I usually end up thinking less of them. How could watching someone get injured be fun or funny?
I don't believe in any violence whether or not it is considered "justified" including the death penalty.
I guess in very extreme cases violence is needed but I would personally take whatever measures I could to avoid it.

 

Maybe because I'm emotionally unstable and that's why any form of violence besides comedy violence (is there even such a thing?), I can't take. The past few weeks I've watched videos in my Anthropology and MicroBiology class where animals were being killed and viruses and diseases infecting humans and it turned my stomach throughout the whole class session that I felt so nauseated. I don't mind violence if I know it was jokingly, otherwise I can't take it.

 

I should add that I don't like violence, what-so-ever! I guess I'm a realist about many things. Violence happens whether one wants it to and/or can stop it or not. I believe my "oh-so-wonderful age" (a bit of sarcasm here) has lead me to this realistic state of mind. I believe facing reality can guide one to figuring out a way to deal with what is; therefore, giving the idea/ability to do something about it. It can be so damn untouchable when human nature shows the ugly side. After stopping violence in one place, it shows up somewhere else. Meanwhile, there is always some sort of violence going on everywhere! :-(

 

As much as I want to say I am against violence (and I usually am -- I think very few instances require violence and I'm against the death penalty, for instance), I agree I'm more against sadism. I have a streak in me that desires vengeance against people who have wronged me and others -- though usually I don't imagine/desire violence (more shame and loneliness).

 

I abhor violence. It's such a dark side of humanity... the capacity some people have for violence disturbs me to my core. I don't even like to see any violence, like someone punching another person, in movies anymore. I cannot stand gore/graphic depictions of violence. I stay away from all horror movies. I also can't watch footage of surgeries being performed. If I see someone bleed it can even make me feel nauseous or physically 'shaken.'

But again, I'd have to agree with you all and say that SADISM is more disturbing and revolting to me. I suppose violence can be justified... sometimes.... by others... but not to me, really. But I have to admit I've always relished seeing Karma succeed, especially on people I view as having wronged others. I can't say I support a strict "eye for an eye" type of judgment though. I don't think that the death penalty carried out by a society can ever be 'fair', because our judicial system is flawed, and killing people, even if it's 'deserved', serves as a bad example to the public we're asking to refrain from murder. But yeah, I do take some strange pleasure in seeing someone get their 'just desserts'... I think that's why Nemesis (Greek Goddess of Divine Retribution/Vengeance) has always been my favorite....

 

Hitler was an INFJ. I think it depends on how best you think you can achieve your goals.

 

Yes and no. I am passive the vast majority of the time and I do not like confrontations. Backed into a corner or at wit's end though and I have no problem being physical, I've done it before.

As far as violent movies, I enjoy those things.

 

I hate horror movies and any type of torture I see done on TV/movies. Any other type of violence I can handle watching though. It really just depends. If it's an action movie for instance or something else with a lot of gore (but quickly done) then I'll be okay. I just don't like when they draw stuff out. I find it sick and disturbing.

 

Not many Tarantino fans, eh?

 

^ I liked Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction but I haven't seen all of his movies so I'm not sure I'd like all of them. Those movies didn't bother me for some reason. It really just depends for me.

 

I can't watch anything violence. I cringed and have to look away

 

Mmm I may be the odd ball in this. For some reason I can't watch torture of any kind, and although I enjoy watching scary movies (of the supernatural kind) I do not enjoy watching slasher movies (which is a subset genre of horror I believe).

I do enjoy watching shows like 48 hours or real life crime shows and I've heard some really messed up stories and stuff because of it... although there are a handful of those episodes that have literally made me cringe to where I won't watch it anymore because I feel sick (it's usually the episodes where the cases were unusually twisted in a sick way).

I've asked myself why I like to watch these crime shows and it boils down to seeing justice being served, finding the truth of 'what really happened and how could things turn SO wrong?' (human psychology), and also learning from these people's experiences; I can gain a sense of awareness about how to protect myself if the situation presented itself or learn how to spot an upcoming storm of crazy (learning from the experience of victims or those who have survived traumatic events - things like the holocaust, Rwanda, etc..). Upon thinking about it further, when I was about 6 or 7, there was a really scary situation that my family was put in (maybe not so traumatic in retrospect, but it scared the little me) and my dad was able to rescue us. This was back when we used to live in Asia, and we had this old car that broke down in front of this strange alley at night. There was a group of men just doing whatever grown men did at night in strange alleys when they spotted us came to 'help' fix our car. My parents didn't speak their language that well, but within a few minutes 5 men showed up and started to take the car engine apart in order to 'help' and even little ole me could tell something didn't seem right. My mom was pretty terrified, and my brother and I were sitting in the car with my mom while these strange men surrounded my dad and started taking the engine apart. In any case after a few minutes my dad told them to stop and he put everything they took out of the car engine back into the engine and through whatever miracle the car started and we quickly drove off. Subsequently I wrote my dad a "thank you for saving our lives dad" card <-- I'm sure he appreciated that lol (my dad is an INFJ)

I guess you could say that experience kind of shaped the way I realized how safety can easily be compromised in such seemingly random ways and therefore in learning from other's experiences I can somehow protect myself from the unpredictable O__O I know, it's a bit of a paranoid behavior.

The single most important thing I've learned from watching all those shows is that 'group think' can be extremely dangerous and has often put people in perilous situations. I've learned it's always important no matter what the situation, to remove yourself from the group mind before making a decision, and to stick with the decision even if it goes against what is accepted/currently happening or even if you feel like you are endangering yourself by choosing to go against the group (stick to your principles and be prepared for the fight or flight response because of it - I often choose flight first and then fight when flight isn't an option haha).

When it comes down to it, the logical side of my brain says "history has shown that when two opposing forces meet often violence/death is used to silence the opposition where diplomacy fails". I think when it comes down to it, if our life or family was threatened we would be the first to get up and do something. I mean, as much as I dislike real violence, if someone were to hold a knife against my children I would have no qualms about using necessary force to protect them.

In general though, I always always shy away from violence... part of it is because I'm 5'2 and most people tower over me and I would lose fights anyway LOL but a larger part of it is that I think violence is so unnecessary when it comes to conflict resolutions, it's the lowest form since it's not about resolution or agreeing to disagree but oppression of someone else's freedom and a form of control - that's just ugly.

PS: In highschool when the boys would sometimes break out in fights.... while my friends (I use the term friends loosely, more like classmates) sat in the lunch room to watch/laugh/egg the fight... I almost always stood up and ran to the girls bathroom. I wanted to protect myself incase chairs started flying, but more often than not I just felt extremely embarrassed by the situation and for the men involved. In retrospect, that's an odd response! Stepping away from the fight out of embarrassment? lol

 

I might be totally 'un-male' about this, but I can't watch even UFC or Boxing. I really don't like to see even 'consenting adults' hurt one another physically. I think something about physical contact/conflict is what makes this kind of violence intolerable to me; like @Ethanol I used to avoid/walk away from fights that broke out in high school while the majority of people crowded to see the 'show.' It's very situational, but I think I can stand physical violence, like in UFC (but definitely not violence against women/children), more than 'slasher' films or surgeries, which involve gore/blood... A great example of this is the film Drive (I'm sure most of you have seen it). I was totally enjoying it, till about mid-way through, when all the blood began to flow.... when it was over I left the theater physically shaken with a lot of anxiety. As I used the men's room on my way out, I had a heightened awareness of things/people around me, and when a custodian came in behind me, I was literally looking over my shoulder and half expecting him to jump me from behind! I think for me personally, it's best if I just avoid as much of that as possible.... which sucks for me because a lot of good movies (someone mentioned Tarantino, whose movies are among my favorites) involve blood/violence!

@Btmangan , you say violence part of our society, and I concur, it is... but you also say it's not necessarily bad given the alternative? Could you clarify this please? If the alternative to a violent society is a nonviolent one... I'm not sure I agree. I'm guessing you mean something like... if we didn't have violence, justice, etc. then maybe we'd... fall victim to other aggressor societies or maybe... I don't know... be lawless?

 

I might be totally 'un-male' about this, but I can't watch even UFC or Boxing. I really don't like to see even 'consenting adults' hurt one another physically. I think something about physical contact/conflict is what makes this kind of violence intolerable to me; like @Ethanol I used to avoid/walk away from fights that broke out in high school while the majority of people crowded to see the 'show.' It's very situational, but I think I can stand physical violence, like in UFC (but definitely not violence against women/children), more than 'slasher' films or surgeries, which involve gore/blood... A great example of this is the film Drive (I'm sure most of you have seen it). I was totally enjoying it, till about mid-way through, when all the blood began to flow.... when it was over I left the theater physically shaken with a lot of anxiety. As I used the men's room on my way out, I had a heightened awareness of things/people around me, and when a custodian came in behind me, I was literally looking over my shoulder and half expecting him to jump me from behind! I think for me personally, it's best if I just avoid as much of that as possible.... which sucks for me because a lot of good movies (someone mentioned Tarantino, whose movies are among my favorites) involve blood/violence!

Imagine this world view. Imagine you look at the world and see, stretching back through the ages, the violent taking advantage of the weak and imagine that the one thing you do not want in your life is to be taken advantage of in that way. The very idea of allowing someone to intimidate you or scare you or use their force to lord over you insults your very core. Imagine that you want to be free, and you will not tolerate anyone who threatens that freedom.

Then you will understand how I view violence.

When people try to use power to intimidate me, or to insult me, or to harm me or my friends, I meet them head on and I don't give them an inch of ground.

Not only that, but I relish it. I relish telling someone that I won't allow myself to be intimidated. And I relish it when they try to attack me to get their way. I've been attacked twice and I won twice. I didn't hurt them (I was careful not to) but in both cases, through the course of the fight, I made it abundantly clear that they weren't going to win it and they backed down. And when I defended myself and they realized they couldn't hurt me like they wanted, there was a smile on my face.

I love the smack of an adrenaline rush in my chest. I love the moment when my opponent realizes that I'm not afraid and that I won't back down, period. I don't need to submit to that kind of bullying, nor do I, in any universe, wish to submit to it. Would you?

Battle of Thermopylae. 300 Spartans fight to the death rather than yield an inch of ground. That kind of attitude is what's burned in my spirit. My favorite anime is Claymore, an anime that has much the same message.

"The world is cruel and unfair. People will hurt you if you can. Fight for what you believe even if the fight is impossible. Fight until your dying breath and know you never had to bend your knee to anyone."

@Btmangan , you say violence part of our society, and I concur, it is... but you also say it's not necessarily bad given the alternative? Could you clarify this please? If the alternative to a violent society is a nonviolent one... I'm not sure I agree. I'm guessing you mean something like... if we didn't have violence, justice, etc. then maybe we'd... fall victim to other aggressor societies or maybe... I don't know... be lawless?

Bolded.

Yes. Without violent authority, there is no law.

 

I see your point. However I'd delineate defending yourself as different from straight violence. There is justifiable violence... if a burglar breaks into your home and threatens to kill or assault you or your loved ones, I too would muster whatever inner strength, perhaps some evolutionary-throwback instincts from when conflicts were primarily settled with physical force, and do what I had to to protect us.

But you're describing... some kind of adrenaline rush in confrontation, or situations which MAY lead to violence, and I don't share those feelings. I'd do whatever I could to avoid it... I don't feel a rush of power in confrontations.

Take a situation where... you're out with your friends at a bar. During the course of the evening, one of your friends gets pretty drunk and starts mouthing off to another group of guys, who look noticeably bigger/tougher than you and your friends. Then when you're leaving, one of the guys from the other group pushes your friend and calls him a name. They all laugh. You're outside the bar, no one else is around... what do you do?

I would tell my drunk friend to ignore him, he's an asshole, and encourage him to 'turn the other cheek.' I'd definitely be the one trying to mediate and defuse a potentially explosive situation. You don't know if those guys have weapons or not. You don't know if they're all black belts in Jiu-jitsu. Why risk serious injury purely based on ego?

If I am, or someone I know/love is, in true danger, that's a reason to fight, but I don't feel like an ego-bruising or assault on my reputation is worthy enough cause to bring myself to do something I find disquieting to my soul. How do you distinguish that line for yourself, I'm curious?

Btw, This is only me, personally. I understand and accept that the world needs people like you and others who can stand up and be physical when the situation requires. I'm best suited as a mediator or perhaps the one to fix your bloodied nose afterward.

 

The world needs more people who are willing to defend people with just as much force as those who are oppressing others.

I'm glad to hear that @Btmangan can beat the sense back into those apes.

It would be nice if people were all civil and conducted themselves properly - when pigs can fly right?

I also think that men who can defend if the situation rose are attractive. I have a ENFP friend who told me once about how he witness a guy badgering some guy's girlfriend, even going as far as to call her a slut infront of the guy and her boyfriend didn't say a word and just put his head down O__O That's just strange! My ENFP friend is 6'1 and built like a football player, so he thought the situation was unfortunate that the man didn't say something back.

I also think it's rare to find someone who is caring and all those nice things but isn't afraid to defend. My past relationships, the men were nice but I noticed that they weren't the best protectors, in fact I often noticed they woud get scared when confrontational situations came up and that just made me even more scared. It wasn't a "This guy is an IDIOT, lets go, whilst I shield you from his uncivilized ways" type, it was a "Omgawd this guy can possibly hurt both of us, lets run!" hahaha I've often wonder if the situation came up that I needed to be protected, whether they would protect me (I highly doubted it for some reason, INFJ intuition) I think they were more concerned about protecting themselves lol

 

I'd comment that he was a roid-raging jackass, and laugh in his face. If he decides to go in swinging, I'd figure let's dance. I spar and wrestle with my friends all the time. Nothing's more exciting than a good scrap and I'm not unskilled in combat Jiujitsu.

It's not about power man, I have just as much fun getting out-played by a BJJ blackelt as I have when submitting a lesser opponent. It's not about winning for me. It's about standing up for yourself.

The moment he drew a weapon, I'd surrender immediately. I don't want my friends to get shot.




Girls do like the attitude. There's something primal about it.

For me, I figure that I just have a lot of testosterone + being a type-8, I just don't put up with people trying to put me down.

There are, of course, times when while I really instinctively want to stand up to some "evil", but understand that actively resisting certain things would be idiotic. Sometimes you need to take it from a jackass. . . though there's nothing I loathe more.

 

I'm not type 8... I actually haven't been able to determine my type, but Type 8 I'm definitely not. lol

I'll tall (6'2" or 3", depending who you ask), but I'm built like a waif lol. But my height has precluded me from being threatened in most situations. Still... I've been in a couple 'scraps', but never initiated them, I was either helping friends or defending myself. Still, never looked back on those moments with any kind of pleasure... I do like to see bullies 'get theirs' and for justice to be served... maybe I live too much in a 'pigs can fly' world... just like to see justice served without me having to get physical.

 

I honestly don't know about this one. I think I have on and off days.

Punching and kicking? I can handle that. When it comes to nasty sound effects and stabbing people in the eye, count me out. I won't throw up or anything but they're just... bleh. Child abuse has a bit more of an emotional impact I guess, but my reaction would essentially be the same as before - I can handle it unless it gets all gore-y.

I don't ever have the desire to 'stop' anything.