Maybe it's not that people THINK they're an INTJ, but rather they THINK an INTJ is using sarcasm when they're not.

I can say something and be the most serious person in the world and people will think I'm just pulling their chain. I actually have to explain myself in order to convince them that, no, I'm not joking, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

Only a select few in my life understand that when I use irony, I mean no harm, and when I use sarcasm, it's some kind of venting method to relieve my frustration. The select few find it funny.

Otherwise, most of everyone else thinks I'm a jerk or being mean.

I can say something and be the most serious person in the world and people will think I'm just pulling their chain. I actually have to explain myself in order to convince them that, no, I'm not joking, I'm not being sarcastic.

I spent hours on IM dealing with a lot of remarks from an individual, who was upset about things I didn't quite get what they were. I scrolled up to reread the conversation multiple times, wondering what the problem was. Finally, he asked, "Why are you being so sarcastic???"

Ironically, I'd put a disclaimer at the top that everything I was to say should be taken literally. And then I realized I spent hours dealing with a bunch of misunderstandings because he'd taken everything as sarcasm. I repeated the disclaimer, and he copied and pasted something else I said back to me, "Look, when you say this like that, it looks sarcastic." (Yeah, pasting something I said back to me is supposed to look sarcastic to me.)

Well, I asked, "Why I would use sarcasm in a serious conversation with you when I know it serves no purpose apart from angering you?" And he asked me in return, "Are you being sarcastic now?"

He went quiet for minutes, went back to read everything, and then said, "Well, I was angry."

Right...

 

Oh I wonder why. Beats me.
Perhaps the association is well earned, even if you and your buddies do not throw it around like rice in Japanese wedding doesn't mean rest of us do not. More likely sarcasm is not result of being INTJ but being the only competent person around, if you are lucky enough to have 4 tested pure blood INTJ's around perhaps your competence to incompetence ratio is not as overwhelming as it is for the most of us who need to tolerate interrelations with living intellectual counterparts of plastic garden gnomes.

Sarcasm is just the easiest way to let out some steam so you do not end up grabbing the poor moron from their nostrils and dangle them out the fifth store window quoting Darwin's Origins of species to them.

 

I needed to verbally thank you for this. I was about to post something very similar, and I got a good laugh out of this.

 

both theories are interesting...
@FlaylexFayte : Mabe your on to something, I usualy have to explain to people that im serious too.
@Sanskrit : Well, it sounds promissing, but still feels like its missing the mark, at least slightly.

 

Well, with further insight we can also assign some of the INTJ sarcasm to egoistical snobbery that comes from the superior stability when one is not so easily swayed by an emotion, so sarcasm is used to dismiss the emotional statements and stupid blatant sensor-esque observations of the obvious.

 

It's not really sarcasm. It's more of a game you play unconsciously, where you attempt to see how much you can insult people without them noticing it. It's whatever you do when you're bored, and are forced to act within a social situation with people who talk about useless gibberish. I tend to do all sorts of stuff for my own amusement. I disagree with them on weird points, and I feign idiosyncrasies that throw them off. I wiggle my left eyebrow slightly, to make them wonder if I'm doing it on purpose. I almost begin acting childish, in fact.

Is that recognizable to anyone?

 

I can confirm this from personal experience.

I grew up in Northern CA. A few years ago I moved to Langhorne PA. I lived there for a little longer than a year before I moved to Medford OR, and nine months later, to North Las Vegas NV, where I currently reside. During my time spent among strangers on the East Coast (mostly my coworkers) I had to adapt to their sense of humor. One thing that took some getting used to was the way some of my coworkers would flat out insult me to my face, insinuating that I had made some kind of serious mistake. I would apologize every time, of course. And every time they would be like, "Oh, come on, I was only kidding. You didn't really fuck that up... did you?" I would assure them I had not. This never ceased to be a source of entertainment for them. They viewed me as extremely naive and gullible. Finally, I started trying the same thing on them. Only, whenever I did it, they would remark, "Dude... that's not funny." I would ask why and it was explained to me that whenever I was trying to be sarcastic I never used a "tell" to make it obvious that I was only joking. Yet, I really never picked up that they were using "tells" at all. This of course explained why they thought of me as gullible.

To this day, I really suck at sarcasm. Whenever I use it, I come across as being really derisive and cutting. I really am not interested in being anti-social on purpose, as having good "people skills" is a highly valued trait in this (American) society. Therefore, I generally avoid using sarcasm unless my emotions get the better of me and I am just not thinking straight or being objective.

 

hmmm. what you ( @dalsgaard ) described sounds alot like when i start playing teacher, when i intentionaly talk in a condescending tone to annoy them. Actualy, now that i think about it, both my parents and my friend also do this. Hmmm....

 

Otherwise known as sarcasm. (However valid that interpretation may or may not be, it is interpreted that way.)

I, for one, do not use sarcasm. I do, however, use a lot of irony.

 

Hopefully, INTJs use sarcasm a lot more on this site than in real life.

I dislike sarcasm and make a point of not using it. Sometimes, a sarcastic comment will come to mind and I resist putting it into words. I don't want to be elitist, distant, or insensitive to the masses. After all, I depend on many of them to further my plans....

 

Which is why there is a distinction between sarcasm and irony.

My family is heavy into the use of Irony, trained from birth. My five year old nephew could kick most peoples ass with his use of Irony, lol. Outside the family though, I have to tone it way way down. (Even on this site, even talking to other INTJs I tone it down to be safe, most of the time) because people don't make the distinction, believing that all Irony is Sarcastic, and therefore meant to cause harm. A significant majority of people react to the idea that what you said was sarcastic, and therefore mean, regardless of the content you used.

"Because it was 'sarcastic' it was offensive. Therefore, I hate you."
This is understandable, because there are a lot of sarcastic a-holes out there being jackasses.

I have also come to the realization that southern Oregon society is actually rather more into Sarcasm than the rest of the states (which is already worse off than the rest of the world). We are simultaneously seen as one of the nicest states, next to Texas and a couple of others, and much more sarcastic inter-personally.

The key complaint I have heard about Americans is that they are "Rude and Sarcastic". They are considered rude for the fact that here money is everything, so even the nicest of American comes across as an a-hole in other countries because "I have money, give me service". Here in America that is pretty normal, even the lowest class will act that way when they have money because that is just how society here has formed. With a lawsuit around every corner, most businesses are all too ready to please someone with money, and far to lax to refuse service when they are being an a-hole. People without money are treated with an equal amount of disdain. A person's class is always in flux, depending on A: how much money they have, and B: how much they are currently spending. If you went to the restaurant last week with four friends and spent a few hundred dollars, they love you. If you went in this week with your so to have an couple drinks and an appetizer, they can't wait to get rid of you. If you have money you are treated like the royalty, regardless of where you live or what you do for a living, for the unwitting average person, this comes to be expected. That expectation is what makes them rude to the rest of the world.

Meanwhile sarcasm is socially unacceptable in most other countries. The only country I know of where "Irony" is a heavy part of social discourse, would be England. English humor generally maintains that line between Sarcasm and Irony, which makes it funny. The reason American remakes of English comedies are so bad is because the English comedy relied on cleaver use of Irony, and the American writers adapted it into blatant Sarcasm (Because American audiences are blind to subtlety). It really irritates me when something subtle comes up, and then one of the characters proceeds to explain it to the proverbial "idiot". The idiot in the show is there for the audience, giving the characters someone to "explain" things to. So much subtle Irony gets ruined by the blatant "in your face" Sarcasm used to "explain it".

 

I'm sarcastic all the time, but I don't have the sarcastic tone. People who can't pick up on my sense of humor tend to think I'm an idiot with some of the remarks I make.

For example, I could be in a car with other people when we drive past a roadwork area with workers just standing around. At that point I may say something like, "they need more workers or this will never get finished", when obviously the problem is with the current workers not doing anything. People who understand think it's funny, and people who don't are quick to explain to me why I'm wrong. Then I get infuriated as I have to explain that I was joking and they don't believe me.

Through situations like that I've kind of learned to just keep my mouth shut around people who wouldn't understand things I say.

 

An MBTI does not determine your behavior, but rather it argues that you are more susceptible to act a certain way. INTJs are put with sarcasm a lot because there are a lot of INTJs who use sarcasm. It doesn't necessarily mean that anyone who is typed INTJ will be using sarcasm. I have found that from the INTJs I know, sarcasm is used frequently in arguments and in humour. (side note): INTJ humour is absolutely hilarious. Anyhow, I am friends with an INTJ who is in his mid-late 30s, and he isn't that sarcastic, but he is very INTJ in that he uses all the cognitive functions in an INTJ order.

I like what Sanskirt has said. Friends of mine who are INTJ (and often ENTJ will do this as well) will use sarcasm as a release from frustration. Not sure if this is also what you were saying Sanskirt , you'll have to correct me - I have found that many INTJs will use sarcasm when something get's awkward or when feeling insecure about something. It is almost like a defense mechanism. Would you say that is something you can relate to?

Anyhow, that's just some of the things I have noticed.. :happy:

 

Sarcasm is a low "tier" defense, usually deployed as distraction rather than a lash. And primarily against SF's.

What are you even talking about?

When you have to ask that, the answer is never going to be worth it:

No, I just preceded to build an ongoing conversation bigger and more heated.
In the end, causing trouble and me standing victorious.

And so in your own little reality a grand war has now been waged? Did you have a bad day or something? If extroverts are like you, I understand more clearly why I sometimes have trouble understanding you guys.

 

I think INTJs are too pedantic to realize that there is such a thing as social codes.

 

How can one who is oblivious to social codes (and therefore trying to quantify their existence) be "too pedantic"?

That is the "normal" reaction to an INTJ: "You are trying to hard to understand, that is why you don't understand."
When the reality is: "I don't understand, that is why I am trying so hard."

 

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
You don't understand shit. You're overanalyzing a joke that was just a joke.

They laughed because it was funny, not because they're undergoing nipple torture.

 

What are you even talking about?

 

TRYING TOO HARD.

INTJs are trying too hard in social circumstances and scream like babies because they are so misunderstood.
I really only have a respect for those who have at least some survival instinct.
And that goes for everyone, not just INTJs.

 

Are you in the wrong thread again?

 

ya i dont use a lot of sarcasm either, sometimes if the question is really stupid like "hey its raining" when we are both outside so i say "what?!?! really no way i never noticed" but that it really. i only do that with people i know well to not strangers i keep quite around them.

 

No, I just preceded to build an ongoing conversation bigger and more heated.
In the end, causing trouble and me standing victorious.

 

Irony: If you have your own reality, what do you need this thread for?

Sarcasm: You would be victorious over, what exactly? Your vagina?

New Yorker: "I really only have a respect for those who have at least some survival instinct."

Thank you for providing source and citation for some of my points.

 

What a cute monkey you are.

 

I get more sarcastic (apparently I don't notice) the more irritated I am. I can't tell, because it just sounds like me not censoring my thoughts before they get verbalised. I do tend to agree with the parental units that I can come off as hideously mean and condescending when I am 'talking while annoyed' though, and so I make an attempt not to talk when I'm annoyed. I am ceaselessly amazed when people say: "Well that was...cold" and my thought is: "I thought I was being gentle..." This leads to me not talking much to people I don't know. I don't use sarcasm intentionally. It just comes off as sarcastic occasionally, apparently.

I am very bad at picking up sarcasm on other people, and this has led to the creation of a well used sarcasm sign among my friends.

 

Off-topic, and not trying to brown nose here (that wouldn't even make sense) but, Sanskrit, you should be a forum moderator, if the need arises.

Also, your signature keeps getting progressively more awesome. Most impressive work. (I assume that you did it yourself as you mentioned that you are a graphic artist.)

 

I do not think I can muster the needed presence and attention for moderating a forum, and my tolerance for idiocy is too low when I have a banhammer to swing. But thank you, and also thank you for the kind words about my signature, it is just something I whipped together quickly between my work sessions as I usually have Photoshop open and a Qintic on my lap so manifesting a few visuals is effortless.

 

^I love you!

It gives me a chance to challenge people.
Nothing is more attractive than someone who can keep up and perhaps even run ahead.

 

im sometimes sarcastic when im joking around, but nobody knows im being sarcastic unless i tell them, but i have been mistaken for being sarcastic when i wasn't. As much as i like sarcastic jokes, i have to admit that too much sarcasam can be annoying

 

Ok, I don't know anymore.

Some of those insightful NF's needs to get in here and tell us if we're really sarcastic or not. I'm beginning to doubt the INTJ's ability to be self-observant.

 

Indeed, what would we do without other types telling us what we really are?
Obviously, since we're NTs, we're too busy programming and insulting people to have time for self-observation.
We need lovely helpful people to wander in and explain us to ourselves.
They always get it right.

 

Some INTJ's are sarcastic and some are not, it's dependent upon different factors, such as life experiences, cultural, etc. Personally, I love sarcasm coupled with irony or exaggeration, etc. Sarcasm is a form of humor to me, among other things. I use it amongst close friends and family and typically people who understand me and understand my intent. It's a good way to get people laughing and I love to make people laugh. I definitely don't use sarcasm with random strangers, unless I can pick it up with their body language that they'll be able to understand it. It's also a way to separate people as far as who I will like and connect with and those I will not. I love people who utilize and understand sarcasm in a humorous form, you can banter back and forth at each other in a very comical way and it's great.

P.S. - See @lirulin's post, that was funny to me and a good use of sarcasm.

 

I know all the right things to do, I'm a freaking genius. women make absolute perfect sense to me, I mean really, i don't know how all you people have so much trouble. They are so simple and easy to understand, its like, duh.

I mean, seriously INTJs, its not that hard. Just act like a jerk and remember there will always be a new chick next week.

Here's Monkey being sarcastic.

I like sarcasm. I like irony. In other words, I like to amuse myself. Most times, it doesn't really matter if it amuses any one else. Bonus if it did.

 

I fucking love hyperbole.

It's the best form of humor EVER.

 

So, to those of us who didn't pay attention in English...
Would Monkey be hyperbolic in this?:

I know all the right things to do, I'm a freaking genius. women make absolute perfect sense to me, I mean really, i don't know how all you people have so much trouble. They are so simple and easy to understand, its like, duh.

I mean, seriously INTJs, its not that hard. Just act like a jerk and remember there will always be a new chick next week.

 

Am I suddenly the poster child for sarcasm?? I guess my ENTP persona is working then.

 

Sarcasm? What sarcasm? I don't see any of that going on here.

 

This post is not a sarcastic paradox.