[68097]

That is interesting. I thought Scar was an INFJ (contrary to the silly popular belief that he is INTJ, because all villains have to be INTJs). It just seems to me that his entire plan is the definition of Fe "gone wrong". All of that manipulation, pretending to be a friend and ally of the hyenas, while still pretending to be (mostly) a good guy in front of Scar and Simba. Then when his plan succeeds, everything goes downhill. There is simply no Te in Scar.

This is correct. He's Fe all the way. He uses it, every time something -- anything -- goes wrong.

 

[Drecon]

This is correct. He's Fe all the way. He uses it, every time something -- anything -- goes wrong.

Well, I agree that he uses methods that fit with Fe. He guilt-trips Simba into leaving and does manipulate everyone around him to have them achieve his personal goals.... Buuuut... Those are methods and methods are available to everyone. Fe is generally recognizable by someone putting other's values above your own, being able to connect to others and taking some of their ways of communicating in the process. High Fe-users are often recognized by building a group of their peers around them and constantly checking in with them. There's nothing of that here.

I could imagine an Fe-dominant that gets shunned by their peers and ends up connecting with others instead (that would be the hyena's I guess?), but he's not connecting with them. He's ruling over them. All across the movie, he never connects with anyone. He manipulates them, but never really talks to anyone.

So is Scar an a-typical ENFJ then?
I would actually be okay with accepting that Scar might not fit into any single MBTI type by the way. It's just that ISFP seems to fit so well as far as I understand the type.

 

[Reila]

Back to the ISFP villains topic, there are folks who think Sasuke is an ISFP (I can see ISTP working as his type, too), and for a long time he was pretty much a villain. He eventually becomes a good guy again, so maybe IxFP aren't just that good at being bad for longer periods of time.

 

[jetser]

Well, I agree that he uses methods that fit with Fe. He guilt-trips Simba into leaving and does manipulate everyone around him to have them achieve his personal goals.... Buuuut... Those are methods and methods are available to everyone. Fe is generally recognizable by someone putting other's values above your own, being able to connect to others and taking some of their ways of communicating in the process. High Fe-users are often recognized by building a group of their peers around them and constantly checking in with them. There's nothing of that here.

I could imagine an Fe-dominant that gets shunned by their peers and ends up connecting with others instead (that would be the hyena's I guess?), but he's not connecting with them. He's ruling over them. All across the movie, he never connects with anyone. He manipulates them, but never really talks to anyone.

So is Scar an a-typical ENFJ then?
I would actually be okay with accepting that Scar might not fit into any single MBTI type by the way. It's just that ISFP seems to fit so well as far as I understand the type.

We've had this conversation before (with Angelcat) but just because you use Fe methods to guilt-trip somebody it doesn't mean you're Fe.
If you're Fe that means you're sharing values which means if you scar somebody (haha) you would be scarred too.
Te is also capable of using Fe methods if that's what's useful at the moment.

 

[68097]

Well, I agree that he uses methods that fit with Fe. He guilt-trips Simba into leaving and does manipulate everyone around him to have them achieve his personal goals.... Buuuut... Those are methods and methods are available to everyone.

A Te using Fe for its own purpose would eventually drop the guise and reveal their Te. Like Frollo in The Hunchback of Notre Dame. He manipulates Quasimodo up to a point, and then his TeFi shows through when he stops trying to manipulate and starts sharing his TRUE opinions. Scar uses Fe to the end -- with the hyenas, with Simba, trying to placate, emotionally influence people, and turn Simba against the hyenas rather than himself.

Fe is generally recognizable by someone putting other's values above your own, being able to connect to others and taking some of their ways of communicating in the process. High Fe-users are often recognized by building a group of their peers around them and constantly checking in with them. There's nothing of that here. I could imagine an Fe-dominant that gets shunned by their peers and ends up connecting with others instead (that would be the hyena's I guess?)

I would really love to erase the idea that Fe is nice ("putting someone's values above your own"). It's not always nice. It's lovely when it is, but Fe can be awful, too, because it can be controlling and dictating of emotions; it goes after your feelings and wants to get a rise out of you, because it can mirror / feed off your pain for its own amusement. That's what Fe villains do, and it's what Scar's doing.

Fe is about EMOTIONALLY IMPACTING THE ENVIRONMENT. You don't have to be nice, you don't have to give a shit, all that's required is you making an emotional impact in some way on the environment. Which is what Scar is doing, most of the time. Emotionally motivating the hyenas by pretending he considers them on the same level as lions. Emotionally crippling Simba right before he orders his death because... why? Te wouldn't bother with that, they'd just give the order to kill the little brat. Why stop to hurt him first? That's unhealthy Fe. Going on to try and emotionally sway Simba into forgiving him, by appealing to his feelings -- you wouldn't hurt your old uncle, would you?? And then, once again, when it's advantageous to just KILL SIMBA, he stops to BRAG -- ie, HURT SIMBA again by saying hey guess what, I killed your daddy and I'm about to kill you too. Ha, ha.

He's Fe. The real article. Evil Fe, granted, but still Fe.

 

[Reila]

^ I agree with everything above. I want to add that I find it hard to imagine a Te-dom/aux villain being so bad at actually controlling and managing the environment, like Scar is. He uses all of his Ni-Fe to become the king, but once that happens, he doesn't do much with that power, other than rub in the face of others that yes, he is the mighty king. That aside, he just eats and sleeps, while the Pride Lands rot away.

 

[Stevester]

Te is also capable of using Fe methods if that's what's useful at the moment.

Agreed. As a Te ''I'll tell that person what they want to hear so they'll shut up about it and we can get things moving'' is something I find myself doing practically on a daily basis. BUT I'm not really good at it. People see right through me when I do that. A FJ or TP type can make it sound organic and super convincing.

I think an unhealthy FJ goes about wanting to accomplish a goal and making sure everyone else gets them there and supports their selfish desires. But chances are, they don't even realize they're being selfish in the first place and if someone points it out they will get defensive af or emotionally break down. Either way they'll probably refuse to accept ownership and blame everyone else.

Now a fictional unhealthy FJ is a whole other thing. They essentially operate the same way your typical TJ villain does but are people focused in doing so. I just saw Venom and I'm still debating whether the antagonist is ENTJ or ENFJ. He has all your stereotypical landmarks of a fictional evil ENTJ (wanting to change the world, treating people like pawns, disposing of them coldly etc.) But then there's this scene where he uses a test subject and starts bonding with him (using his name and Bible references) in order to appease him. He also says he wants to better the human race. So ENTJ or ENFJ? Your guess is as good as mine....

The whole ''getting off on emotionally messing with people'' however I believe is very much a unhealthy TP thing. Even healthy TP types love to prode and poke people for their own amusement now and then. If a fictional FJ acts as such, they will need validation like ''See? Told you that person is bad and now they're getting what's coming to them'' An FJ real or fictional has this immediate need to draw the line between good and bad people and the more unhealthy they are, the more they will think ''bad'' people deserve what's coming to them and rejoicing if those said bad people suffer. An healthy FJ believes there is good in everyone, no such thing as bad, just misguided. Unhealthy TP types however.....Yeah, it's just fun to mess with people and watch them lose their cool. Whether they are actually good or bad, doesn't really matter. See the Joker the The Dark Knight as one of many references to this.


Anyways, totally de-railing here. It wasn't about The Lion King, which as a 37 year old man I'm not about to watch anytime soon. Just sharing insight.

 

[Drecon]

We've had this conversation before (with Angelcat) but just because you use Fe methods to guilt-trip somebody it doesn't mean you're Fe.
If you're Fe that means you're sharing values which means if you scar somebody (haha) you would be scarred too.
Te is also capable of using Fe methods if that's what's useful at the moment.

That was was actually my point although I can understand it didn't come across. I was kind of all over the place in my reply.

 

[mistakenforstranger]

Scar's Fe. Really messed-up manipulative Fe used to carry out his overarching Ni plan.

 

 

[Reila]

Scar's Fe. Really messed-up manipulative Fe used to carry out his overarching Ni plan.

 

He takes so much pleasure from playing with other people's (lions and hyenas are people too : p) emotions. You can make a rather big list of moments where Scar is doing nothing but manipulating/playing with others. He plays with the little mice, he terrorizes Zazu, he taunts Mufasa, he manipulates Simba many times, the hyenas are basically his puppets (who he control by manipulating their emotions and desire to have a constant source of food), he taunts Mufasa again before killing him, he terrorizes Simba for no reason whatsoever other than pure joy, before telling the hyenas to kill him, etc etc. Heck, he was killed in the end mostly because he is so into messing up the psyche of others.

Like you said, that is some really messed up Fe.

 

[mistakenforstranger]

He takes so much pleasure from playing with other people's (lions and hyenas are people too : p) emotions. You can make a rather big list of moments where Scar is doing nothing but manipulating/playing with others. He plays with the little mice, he terrorizes Zazu, he taunts Mufasa, he manipulates Simba many times, the hyenas are basically his puppets (who he control by manipulating their emotions and desire to have a constant source of food), he taunts Mufasa again before killing him, he terrorizes Simba for no reason whatsoever other than pure joy, before telling the hyenas to kill him, etc etc. Heck, he was killed in the end mostly because he is so into messing up the psyche of others.

Like you said, that is some really messed up Fe.

Yeah, I agree, but I would rather attribute those examples you list as more in line with sadistic behavior, which any type could potentially engage in, and the really messed-up Fe I was referring to. Though, I do grant the way he does it by appealing to/playing on the emotions of others is Fe in nature, or at least is coming from a Feeling type, as other Feelers can emotionally manipulate too. That's not the sole domain of Fe. It's Fe, and precisely Ni-Fe, more so in the way he is able to shift public perception in his favor. For instance, in the scene above, he acts all broken-up about Simba and Mufasa's death in front of the other lions, which is totally messed-up when he's the one responsible for killing them, but they'll all believe his story and his fake tears, or how is he is able to get Simba on his side and trust him, only to be plotting his demise the entire time. Does he also start to put ideas into Simba's head so he resents Mufasa for being too controlling? I can't remember specifics, but that's more how I see it as messed-up Fe. He just plays the role necessary at the time to get who he wants on his side, even acting as if he has their best interests in mind (he does this with Simba (see clip below from 2:00-3:00, where he says this exact thing), the lions (after Mufasa is gone), and the hyenas, but they eventually all start to see through his ruse), but all he really cares about is selfishly fulfilling his vision as king, and he will stop at nothing to achieve it. :crazy: Ni-Fe.

 

And yeah, you mentioned how he's not INTJ, despite always being typed as that. I mean, he's really dramatic (also as a 4w3) and plays up the emotional effect of his words all the time. I wouldn't see INTJs being this way. He's pretty hammy haha.

 

[HIX]

DJ from Star Wars

 

[jetser]

It wasn't about The Lion King, which as a 37 year old man I'm not about to watch anytime soon. Just sharing insight.

I don't know why that damn lion is so important. He's neither particularly interesting or well written.
Or that movie for that matter.