I'll probably end up reposting this on the cognitive functions section of PerC, but I wanted to test out my ideas on the more populated Fi-dom forum on this site, after getting some thoughts. I think both Fi and Fe are seriously misrepresented on both descriptions and CF tests and there have been things that I have observed in people that I don't see discussed articles about functions, so I'm wondering have you experienced most of the things that I'm about to talk about? If so what is it like? and if not what is your experience? I think it's a sort of fascination with the "other" that I have
This is the first thing I've noticed:
A sense of identity:
I've noticed that introverted feelers incorporate their personal ideals and values with their identity. I've noticed this is also sometimes true of things they like, so they have a difficult time not taking it personally when someone rags on something that they are a huge fan of. It's kinda like "This isn't just how I feel or what I like, this is a part of who I am"? So, that leads to the next next observation....
"Hot button" topics:
Certain topics that if someone hits on, it provokes them, like someone hit on a button. I've noticed this of TJs too, that if someone says kinda provoking about such a topic, they tend to reply in a rapid fire fashion. Like Andrew Garfield in this video talking about how he dislikes how school pigeonholes people and takes away their sense of individuality.
Sincerity/Authenticity:
That's another aspect of this thought. FPs tend to be very sincere in what they say and tend to value authenticity in themselves and others. I think of the Shakespeare (INFP) quote from Hamlet: "To thine own self be true"
Acceptance and Forgiveness:
is another thing I've seen a lot of in FPs, particulary IXFPs that I've known. I've seen this kinda talked about in type descriptions but I haven't seen much emphasis on the forgiveness aspect. I've come two people that I'm close to 100% sure are INFP, and I've noticed with both that they've put up with a lot of mistreatment or manipulation from friends or significant others, but I know with one INFP, she had a friend that just dropped her when she became friends with someone else, which hurt her deeply, but she took her friend back and all was forgotten. Her friend didn't understand why she forgave her so fast and why she accepted this friend back so quickly with open arms, but I've seen things like this happen pretty often. I kinda wonder if it has to do with that mentality of accepting people for what they are and not wanting to focus on negative behavior.
Appreciation:
Not that I find that FJs are not appreciative, they certainly are, but this has been my experience, with FPs and also wtih IXTJs as well. If you do something, even the tiniest thing for them, it's like your depositing money into a bank. It just swells and accumulates. I've noticed some will save little notes that are left for them, and I've never met one that if you pay them a little attention show a little appreciation, or give them even the slightest of compliments, their face just gushes with appreciation. Sometimes they look so touched like their going to tear up. I interpret the face as being like: "you noticed me. It makes me so happy that someone notices me and appreciates me
" I often hear words like "thank you so much! I really appreciate this!"
Gushing:
Pretty much every FP and TJ I've known has seriously been starstruck by someone. I mean FJs kinda do this too, but I find with FPs, especially, it seems like it's deeper, and I find with FJs because they are Ti users, there seems to be a more of a rational, like a list of reasons or it might be more contigent on the person's behavior, like they might have to kinda get to know a person first a little. idk it's hard to explain. I find FJs can be more critical, because they have, at a subconscious level, that Ti "troubleshooter" mentality whereas Fi types tend to take people as they are. An example that strikes me is this ESFP guy that had this persistent crush on me, he was, apparently struck by me immediately, even though I didn't notice his existence til a few months later (typical oblivious Ni dom). I mean, my being pretty was a part of it, but this was like the most persistent crush I've ever seen in a person, and even though there were other pretty girls around that he found attractive it just wasn't the way it was with me. It was almost like the mentality was "I like this girl. She's awesome! She just suits me."
Decisions based on a more subjective criteria:
I think FPs do tend to make personal decisions based on personal tastes. They make a lot of value judgments on things/people based on their internal sense of that they like/dislike, what they find awesome or lame. I find they use a lot of words that are very subjective by nature, like "Oh I just love that! It's awesome!" or "that's sucks! I hate it!" what do cool, great, stupid, awesome, retarded, or lame mean anyway? They mean different things to different people. Each individual has a different internal criteria for each word so that goes back to the idea of being individualistic.
Thinking in shades of gray:
I believe that introverted feelers feel very uncomfortable labelling a course of action as right or wrong or good or bad. I think thats a huge misconception about strong Fi users, that they moralize, but it's actually Fe users that moralize. Fe types think of morality as there's clearly a right and a wrong, a moral and an immoral. My experience with Fi types is that they think more like another of Shakespeare's lines from Hamlet: "There is no good or bad but thinking that makes it so" it's more of the mentality of: If you think it's the right thing to do, do it, if you don't think it's right, don't do it, but don't ask me what the right course is because my right is not your right, and my wrong is not your wrong. The only thing an Fi user might consult another person would give or want advice about would be the logic of a situation, rather than the ethics.
Sensitivity about feeling judged:
This is something else that I've experienced with my ESFP. If we talk about the Bible or anything remotely along the lines of something to do with ethics or values and he gives his sincere opinion or whatever, if I even so much as give him the wrong look, he'll say "you're judging me. Don't judge me." I do see this a lot, with introverted feelers. They don't like to feel judged, probably because they accept others for what they are so they want other people to accept them for what they are and not nitpick or criticize at their flaws.
Making value judgments about people:
I think that might be a part of the "gushing" thing. I find FJs and, sometimes TP types tend to make value judgments about behaviors but are hesitant to make value judgments about people. It's not uncommon to hear an FJ say things like "He did this or that, and that was just wrong. People shouldn't act that way. blah blah blah" If they see someone making a poor decision, they might say something like "That's such an idiotic thing to do, what's wrong with that person?" an FP might more inclined to say "That guy is an idiot". Or on the other hand they might say " that guy is so awesome!!!! I'm so this guy's fan!"
Lack of desire to conform to society's standards.
I think about that quote that's been going around the internet by Robert Downey Jr.(ENFP, I'm pretty sure) that goes "skinny=anorexic, thick=obese, virgin=too good, non-virgin=slut, friendly=fake, quiet=rude. You can never please society" This entity people call "society" has a tendency to pigeonhole people and tell people in different positions how they are supposed to act. An example is assigned gender roles. "Real men" are expected to act a certain way, and "real women" are supposed to act another way, so it's not uncommon for an FP to be considered "androgynous" by society's standards, simply because they have no desire to fulfill certain roles that society expects them to. Another example is social propriety, which can come across as inauthentic; such types don't always understand the need to behave a certain way simply because it's deemed "socially proper"
Well, I hope I don't offend anyone. These have just been my observations. Tell me if you disagree....
This is the first thing I've noticed:
A sense of identity:
I've noticed that introverted feelers incorporate their personal ideals and values with their identity. I've noticed this is also sometimes true of things they like, so they have a difficult time not taking it personally when someone rags on something that they are a huge fan of. It's kinda like "This isn't just how I feel or what I like, this is a part of who I am"? So, that leads to the next next observation....
"Hot button" topics:
Certain topics that if someone hits on, it provokes them, like someone hit on a button. I've noticed this of TJs too, that if someone says kinda provoking about such a topic, they tend to reply in a rapid fire fashion. Like Andrew Garfield in this video talking about how he dislikes how school pigeonholes people and takes away their sense of individuality.
Sincerity/Authenticity:
That's another aspect of this thought. FPs tend to be very sincere in what they say and tend to value authenticity in themselves and others. I think of the Shakespeare (INFP) quote from Hamlet: "To thine own self be true"
Acceptance and Forgiveness:
is another thing I've seen a lot of in FPs, particulary IXFPs that I've known. I've seen this kinda talked about in type descriptions but I haven't seen much emphasis on the forgiveness aspect. I've come two people that I'm close to 100% sure are INFP, and I've noticed with both that they've put up with a lot of mistreatment or manipulation from friends or significant others, but I know with one INFP, she had a friend that just dropped her when she became friends with someone else, which hurt her deeply, but she took her friend back and all was forgotten. Her friend didn't understand why she forgave her so fast and why she accepted this friend back so quickly with open arms, but I've seen things like this happen pretty often. I kinda wonder if it has to do with that mentality of accepting people for what they are and not wanting to focus on negative behavior.
Appreciation:
Not that I find that FJs are not appreciative, they certainly are, but this has been my experience, with FPs and also wtih IXTJs as well. If you do something, even the tiniest thing for them, it's like your depositing money into a bank. It just swells and accumulates. I've noticed some will save little notes that are left for them, and I've never met one that if you pay them a little attention show a little appreciation, or give them even the slightest of compliments, their face just gushes with appreciation. Sometimes they look so touched like their going to tear up. I interpret the face as being like: "you noticed me. It makes me so happy that someone notices me and appreciates me
" I often hear words like "thank you so much! I really appreciate this!" Gushing:
Pretty much every FP and TJ I've known has seriously been starstruck by someone. I mean FJs kinda do this too, but I find with FPs, especially, it seems like it's deeper, and I find with FJs because they are Ti users, there seems to be a more of a rational, like a list of reasons or it might be more contigent on the person's behavior, like they might have to kinda get to know a person first a little. idk it's hard to explain. I find FJs can be more critical, because they have, at a subconscious level, that Ti "troubleshooter" mentality whereas Fi types tend to take people as they are. An example that strikes me is this ESFP guy that had this persistent crush on me, he was, apparently struck by me immediately, even though I didn't notice his existence til a few months later (typical oblivious Ni dom). I mean, my being pretty was a part of it, but this was like the most persistent crush I've ever seen in a person, and even though there were other pretty girls around that he found attractive it just wasn't the way it was with me. It was almost like the mentality was "I like this girl. She's awesome! She just suits me."
Decisions based on a more subjective criteria:
I think FPs do tend to make personal decisions based on personal tastes. They make a lot of value judgments on things/people based on their internal sense of that they like/dislike, what they find awesome or lame. I find they use a lot of words that are very subjective by nature, like "Oh I just love that! It's awesome!" or "that's sucks! I hate it!" what do cool, great, stupid, awesome, retarded, or lame mean anyway? They mean different things to different people. Each individual has a different internal criteria for each word so that goes back to the idea of being individualistic.
Thinking in shades of gray:
I believe that introverted feelers feel very uncomfortable labelling a course of action as right or wrong or good or bad. I think thats a huge misconception about strong Fi users, that they moralize, but it's actually Fe users that moralize. Fe types think of morality as there's clearly a right and a wrong, a moral and an immoral. My experience with Fi types is that they think more like another of Shakespeare's lines from Hamlet: "There is no good or bad but thinking that makes it so" it's more of the mentality of: If you think it's the right thing to do, do it, if you don't think it's right, don't do it, but don't ask me what the right course is because my right is not your right, and my wrong is not your wrong. The only thing an Fi user might consult another person would give or want advice about would be the logic of a situation, rather than the ethics.
Sensitivity about feeling judged:
This is something else that I've experienced with my ESFP. If we talk about the Bible or anything remotely along the lines of something to do with ethics or values and he gives his sincere opinion or whatever, if I even so much as give him the wrong look, he'll say "you're judging me. Don't judge me." I do see this a lot, with introverted feelers. They don't like to feel judged, probably because they accept others for what they are so they want other people to accept them for what they are and not nitpick or criticize at their flaws.
Making value judgments about people:
I think that might be a part of the "gushing" thing. I find FJs and, sometimes TP types tend to make value judgments about behaviors but are hesitant to make value judgments about people. It's not uncommon to hear an FJ say things like "He did this or that, and that was just wrong. People shouldn't act that way. blah blah blah" If they see someone making a poor decision, they might say something like "That's such an idiotic thing to do, what's wrong with that person?" an FP might more inclined to say "That guy is an idiot". Or on the other hand they might say " that guy is so awesome!!!! I'm so this guy's fan!"
Lack of desire to conform to society's standards.
I think about that quote that's been going around the internet by Robert Downey Jr.(ENFP, I'm pretty sure) that goes "skinny=anorexic, thick=obese, virgin=too good, non-virgin=slut, friendly=fake, quiet=rude. You can never please society" This entity people call "society" has a tendency to pigeonhole people and tell people in different positions how they are supposed to act. An example is assigned gender roles. "Real men" are expected to act a certain way, and "real women" are supposed to act another way, so it's not uncommon for an FP to be considered "androgynous" by society's standards, simply because they have no desire to fulfill certain roles that society expects them to. Another example is social propriety, which can come across as inauthentic; such types don't always understand the need to behave a certain way simply because it's deemed "socially proper"
Well, I hope I don't offend anyone. These have just been my observations. Tell me if you disagree....
