I think a lack of Te is a factor (EXTJs do best). Judging from my close ENTP friend, the problem is a general lack of drive/focus/follow through. He's super smart, has great ideas, great with people, understands the way capitalism is played and yet I see how this is going to play out for him. It would be okay if he'd be happy but he'll be frustrated his talents are wasted and he doesn't match up to his peers. It's like he expects a lot from himself but can't bring himself to do what it takes (although I'm sure there is a large variation amongst ENTPs. I'm only saying this about him to answer the question).

Too much Ne? I noticed that the types with dominant/auxiliary Ne are the lowest on that income chart (INFP, ENTP with INTP a little higher and ENFP -- with Te as a third function - doing better/average but not well).

Does an unhealthy ENTP go to shadow function Si which doesn't promote change?

My best guess is the problem is a mix of the above.

Edit: In case this isn't clear (by me having a close ENTP friend): I really like ENTPs. They are one of my favorite types. There are many positive things to be said about them. And obviously there is far more to life than income.

 

Unless I have committed a parallax error infp is the bottom on that chart

Where did you even get that from? If there was ever anything that required captioning with 'citation needed' in that disapproving font used by Wikipedia, this is it.

Lol at determining your place in society by your income anyway :laughing: that's how bitches looking for husbands think. "Girlllll, if he ain't making six figures I don't even let him buy me a drink"

Shakib is love, Shakib is life

 

Lol at determining your place in society by your income anyway :laughing: that's how bitches looking for husbands think. "Girlllll, if he ain't making six figures I don't even let him buy me a drink"

It's not just about money. The whole ENTP image is that of a clown basically. No serious man has ever been typed an ENTP.
If someone is a bit more serious or God forbid he has a lifelong goal he's automatically typed as something else because no ENTP has ever had a goal right?
This image just shows the general perception of how ENTPs are looked within the MBTI community. Basically we're good as clowns.
Look how a weird funny man is almost automatically typed as an ENTP but if I told you that Steve Jobs or Steven Spielberg are ENTPs you would just shake your head. They're too serious right? Too coherent. Because they don't fit the stereotypes they can't be ENTP.
The whole ENTP stereotype is a bad joke.

 

People fear to be useless so much, especially in this era of bullshit jobs, where the evidence of creativity as the only source of human wealth improvement is more and more obvious, that they are psychologically drawn to find reasons to believe that the most useful ones are useless. And who are the creative pillar of society? Who are the source of most paradigm shifts and the most likely to invent the next one? ENTPs. At no point in modern history the most useful activities have been so penalized in favor of the most destructive.

So there is a vast ENTP bashing going on. Their social and personal values are denied and confronted to the self-fulfilling prophecy of their worthlessness.. because they have too much merit and not enough reticence to pretend otherwise. Even in those MBTI-centric social circles, where ENTP is meant to be critically investigated, everything is done to make all self-infatuated pricks think they are ENTP and all ENTPs doubting they are.

That's just how much a solution is desirable for its issue. :happy:

 

Just today I read here that ENTPs are, wait... half brained INTPs, loud, exhibitionists, immoral, illogical, uncreative, have no drive to achieve anything, and.. I forgot the rest.

What an inconsistent chimera! People don't want you to exist. It's so pathetic.

 

Wow, that's pretty shitty. I suspect though that people have no idea how to figure out people's MBTI in real life and base their guess at what they are on stereotypes. I also suspect that people think any loud, argumentative, show off is an ENTP because they have never really met an ENTP. The verified ENTPs I have met in my life are not the life of the party (the ESxPs tend to be though) and in general we tend to blend in. We aren't quiet at a party but we generally aren't dominating. The only place where an ENTP is really noticeable is in a classroom setting. We would be the ones participating in class where there is no right or wrong answer, but an open discussion. If there is a kid in your English, religion, philosophy, social studies, history, etc. class that tends to always have a thought about things, there is a chance they are ENTPs.

 

ENTP's are too unpredictable to use statistics on. The range of their characters' is wider than other NT's at least. Besides they're always on some new venture every time you turn around. One minute they're creating a bionic arm in their garage, the next they're on a mission trip, and then you turn around and they're performing surgery on themselves with a prototype they designed 2 seconds ago.

For me ENTP's capture a big part of the american spirit. They define entrepreneurship, so there's no way I can accept stats such as those.

 

This study has been brought up a couple of times on this forum over the years. First off, the statistics are off if you look at the data. It is comparing household incomes and they do not have a very good dataset. However, lets for a moment say that this study is legit...

I believe there are two things working here that would have an ENTP making less than, for example, XXTJs. First off, I have yet to meet or talk to online a materialistic ENTP. For a good majority of us, we could care less about "Keeping up with the Jones". We are definitely about experiences over "stuff". Pretty much every XXTJ I have met tends to rate themselves in relation to what others have either material wise or career wise (I'm sure it is the Te). That tends to make you more ambitious to "keep up with the Jones". ENTPs generally want to live comfortably for their lifestyle, no more, no less.

This brings me to my second point. ENTPs want a good life-work balance. They don't want to go to a shitty, high stress job everyday just because it makes a lot of money nor do they want a job that engulfs their life so that they don't get much of a personal life. It leads us into careers that are flexible, independent, and/or unconventional. Yes, most of us are smart enough to be doctors or lawyers or CEOs but most of us don't want a career that is that stressful or time consuming.

I will say, personally I do get paid pretty well and have been vocal about advancement in my career. I worked with two xSTJs who were around my skill level when we started and I by far am further advanced and paid more than them now. They are great workers but they are a bit "thank you sir can I have another" at least early on in their career which means people would give them work that others didn't want to do because they didn't complain or they got comfortable doing a specific thing and was less likely to be handed something that they had to figure out for themselves. I was willing to try anything new and could be given very little instruction and I could run with it (knowing I would ask questions if I needed to). I also was much more vocal when I was being held back. That said, I most likely will get to a point when I won't be advancing much because my final steps would be managing a department which I don't have a huge urge to not be doing the technical work myself but having to just dole out tasks to people. We'll see. I have managed small groups which I am fine with but I feel like I would lose my independence and my technical ability if I had to be the task master.

 

I believe there are two things working here that would have an ENTP making less than, for example, XXTJs. First off, I have yet to meet or talk to online a materialistic ENTP. For a good majority of us, we could care less about "Keeping up with the Jones". We are definitely about experiences over "stuff". Pretty much every XXTJ I have met tends to rate themselves in relation to what others have either material wise or career wise (I'm sure it is the Te). That tends to make you more ambitious to "keep up with the Jones". ENTPs generally want to live comfortably for their lifestyle, no more, no less.

it took me about 8 hours of work each month....I had the rest of the time to do whatever I pleased.

It has always seemed like it was something in this area. I have limited personal experience with ENTPs but it seems as if their job is merely a resource that allows them to do other more interesting/fulfilling things with their life. The job itself is not a source of importance (although they have to like it enough to show up.)

I admire this.

(As an aside, I don't personally gauge myself in relation to other peoples success/belongings. Most people, at least where I live, are in substantial debt to "look a part" and that is very fake to me.)

 

You're probably familiar with this image.

View attachment 649658

What are your thoughts?

This seems dead on to me!

This is pretty much what I earned on my last venture

it took me about 8 hours of work each month....I had the rest of the time to do whatever I pleased.

 

Here's where the data for that income chart comes from: https://www.personalitypage.com/html/demographics.html

The difference between the highest (ENTJ) and lowest (INFP) is only ~$20k and when you take into account the percentage that are also married, then it becomes pretty clear why ExxJ have the highest household income. They're more likely to be a dual income household.

 

Yeah, the duel income thing is a difference although I have made well over the "average" for 10 years and my household income (I actually make more than my husband by a little) is really far over that. An INFP probably doesn't make as much because it appears that most INFPs don't get married.

 

It's because you are all scum! Damn kids, on my porch *grumbling*

No, but really. Does that chart account for all the ENTP money, such as illegal gambling ventures, long term investments on inventions, shady marketing schemes, street hustles, under the table tips, losing your cash in your other pair of pants, and so on? Or does it only account for legal income that can be taxed?

 

I do lose a lot of money because it is in another pair of pants or I left it in an old purse. Although, it is a pleasant surprise when I find it.

 

The hell you say?

This thread is way off.

I didnt even finish elementary school and bull shit my way to more than that.
Household income is wayyy more than that.

I get its an average.

Truth be told we are all way to generous and forgo raises so that the
people we work for can have bigger bars on money bar graphs.

Team players we are.

 

Truth be told we are all way to generous and forgo raises so that the
people we work for can have bigger bars on money bar graphs.

Team players we are.

lol You go first.

 

We can also see ENTP have on average a lower educational level and are less likely married, compared to other types. So, if we assume these stats are correct, that could be an explanation of the lower hosehold income.

But I wouldn't judge people's "rank" in society based on their household income.

 

Just as I said.....

It's so predictable. :mellow:

AFK need to bang my head against a wall.

 

Uh... I have no prejudice against ENTPs at all, quite the opposite, as you can see in my last post in this thread. I think many (most?) are quite brilliant. Hell I'm not entirely sure I'm not an ENTP myself.

It's just that your statement makes no sense whatsoever and you directly contradicted yourself, as well as basic logic, multiple times.

Let's start with the most baffling claim:

How in the fuck does J measure introversion?

 

You just proved to me that you don't understand basic logic, what else?

 

There is nothing logical about the assertion that J is related to introversion.

But since you're clearly trolling I'll stop here.

At least, I HOPE for your sake you're trolling...

 

Ok, let's be magnanimous.

In the MBTI :

The J/P axis measures introversion and extraversion, terms Jung used as technical jargon to talk about protection and adaptation. That's why it asks you about your drive to control your environment or adapt to it. That axis measures how much you are adaptive or protective, your attitude of consciousness, in other words Introversion and Extraversion.


The E/I axis determines (vainly attempts to) whether perception or judgment is oriented in a way or another. The MBTI flipped those axes because M&B believed Jung said that for someone whose main attitude is extraverted and main function is perceptive, the main judging function must be mainly introverted. Jung never said that and it goes against his premises. The E/I axis ends up measuring some vague sense of outgoingness and literal intro/extraversion, because it cannot measures perception vs judgment correctly under those twisted assumptions.

In other words, you score I-N-T-P because you are a judger, an intuitive, a thinker, and an extravert. So technically, not in MBTI terms, but for what your preferences really are, you are E-N-T-J.

And I'm calling you self-typed "INTP" SENSOR because I can't help assuming any "INTP" (entj) would understand something so simple.

Oh and don't try to pretend that I'm wrong because you read the fucking manual, if you did you would know I'm right. Thanks.

 

And your ridiculous presumption that I'm trolling (because entppppp derp) summarizes pretty well what has been said in this thread.

 

Let's see whereto this leads..^^

 

I don't talk to schizophrenics beyond extending my basic pity towards them, so don't worry about it leading anywhere.

 

No worry, you just proved how much of an NT you .. aren't.

 

There are a lot of lurkers...

 

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them." - Thomas Jefferson

By the way, Jung himself was kind of insane. Like, he literally went through psychotic episodes. So citing him exclusively does not exactly help your case that you are not schizo, in fact it only reinforces this fact in my mind. Psychology and personality theory has come a long, long way since Jung (as well as Myers).

And I have read Psychological Types in its entirety. Nothing in it, including what you cited, suggests that the P/J dimension on the MBTI, which was explicitly designed to differentiate Jung's "rational" and "irrational" types, measures introversion/extroversion. At all. You are making insane leaps from nothing.

That is why you fail.

 

"
And I have read Psychological Types in its entirety. Nothing in it, including what you cited, suggests that the P/J dimension on the MBTI, which was explicitly designed to differentiate Jung's "rational" and "irrational" types, measures introversion/extroversion. At all. You are making insane leaps from nothing.

That is why you fail.

WHAT THE HELL

Just wow. Keep it up.

 

I find it sad that here is no longer cool objectivity. Perhaps You could take a break and cool Your heads a bit. This is not funny anymore, rather insulting and subjective.
Nearly a heated fight for personal values....

Firstly, both sides should return to normal respect to each other before debating any further.

 

I have no respect for crackpots and idiots, nor will I pretend to. I may humor them until they cross the line and personally attack me, as you can easily see this nutcase did first. After that point all bets are off.

Also, a quick glance of this INTJ's history should be enough to tell you that:

1. He is incapable of "normal respect" for others.
2. He is insane and not worth taking seriously.

 

@FDT

If you understood how fallacious they are, you would hurry and show how to reduce them to absurdity. Instead, you have no understanding to even judge whether or not it is unintelligible. That's why you keep resorting to denial and insults. Keep quoting smart people, maybe they will end up rubbing off you..

 

I will repeat myself:

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them." - Thomas Jefferson

You have not put forth any distinct ideas or said anything remotely coherent, therefore there is nothing for me to analyze. The only option left is to make fun of your sorry ass.

 

That's, like, not an argument, just your opinion.