Thats my enneagram and MBTI type, i've read that this type is rare- non existent but i don't know i've done like a lot of MBTI test but still register with all of them saying I'm INTP. I'm definitely sure i'm a 4w5 as all of 4 is me and only some is 5. I've been in so much conflict this last few months as i finished high school and i had to choose a career path cause i had no idea what i wanted to do with my life, growing up with strict african parents my choices for "viable" careers were limited and self expression too. I first went into college choosing to do Accounting, only to dropout in semester two because I realised it was nothing interesting or something i had no interest in, i only chose it for the money they make rather than happiness. I'm planning on returning to college to do Multimedia/Creative Digital Media cause there's a big creative aspect to it and i feel like i have some good ideas to bring out in terms of filming etc. I just recently join this to see peoples opinions or advice on how to handle these things or about myself because i've hit a depression run with a lot of anxiety for almost a year now, doctor prescribed me lexapro cause i guess i'm still young only recently turning 19. I've been going Counselling and I've gotten better a lil bit so far.
INTP - 4w5
Fuliginouswolf
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Exactly how I feel as also, an INTP 4w5.
I can describe being an INTP 4w5, as if I am a living contradiction sometimes. My motivation, my will to keep going, comes from the heart as an Enneagram 4. When I make decisions, I put my feelings aside to take the most impersonal decision possible.
I don't want to feel unique, I know I am. I hate it at first, but I learned to appreciate it. It's not even something I try to do, it's just who I am. The difference I have over people it's very noticeable even without talking, it's something I'm constantly told.
I think it's not hard to do so @Turi. At least, I think so. Being emotional, doesn't mean you can't be analytical. I value what I feel, how things affect me and those around me, which helps me make an impersonal decision as I'm able to look at various side of something. Hope you understand where I'm coming from.
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Well, nothing can't be done about that I guess. It's your choice, whether you believe it or not, obviously.
I wouldn't say everyone is unique, though. Everyone is different, that's a whole different thing that I do believe but not everyone is unique although everyone has the ability to be.
I wouldn't say everyone is unique, though. Everyone is different, that's a whole different thing that I do believe but not everyone is unique although everyone has the ability to be.
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I would love to hear why you think not everybody is unique.
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I’m pretty sure I’m 4w5 INTP. I think it probably isn’t too common, but I don’t see anything really contradictory about being a thinker and a 4. I think it might lead to a lot of mistypes for INTPs, with some mistyping as 5w4 and others mistyping as INFP/INFJ.
I think there are some unique struggles for this combo. Inferior Fe grip and disintegration to 2 are pretty similar in their descriptions, so I think they can feed into each other to create an avalanche effect, so there might be a quicker path to 2 for INTP 4s. (Not that the type is doomed to a life of disintegration or anything). So, I think understanding both theories can be extremely beneficial for this type. It is a very ambivalent and in some ways contradictory combination.
I don’t think INTP 4’s are going to be as effective at understanding their emotions or taking care of their emotional need as other 4’s. They can fall victim to a dangerous cycle of repressing/ignoring volatile emotions and not really understanding them until long after they’ve passed, even if there is an effort put forth to understand them. I would say it really only takes the presence of these feelings and maybe the impulse or desire to explore or reconcile these emotions to make someone a 4(among other things, of course), not the ability to do so.
I think one way the envy/broken factor can manifest is being caught in between NF and NT types, especially when not knowing much about either system or when one is mistyped. In the way that being a 4 creates NF-ish traits, but not being as good at being a 4 or really fitting in with other 4’s, but also not being quite as NT-ish as other INTPs or really fitting in with other NTs. There’s always a feeling of inferiority for me when encountering an INFP 4 or an INTP 5 and that’s one of the easiest ways to understand myself as an INTP 4. I’m still doing a lousy job of properly explaining it though, and need to work on it more, but this is the best I can do now. :blushed:
Withdrawing due to feeling unique, broken, or vulnerable can easily apply to thinkers. For me, I just look at these aspects(and spend a lot of time doing so) of myself with Ti, which becomes a little easier to do the older I get.
I don’t think there’s any major conflict between the fairness/objectivity and individuality/uniqueness aspects, at least not enough of one to make the type impossible. Humans are contradictory, illogical creatures by nature, and I see any contradiction from the 4-thinker as incredibly minor.
I think there are some unique struggles for this combo. Inferior Fe grip and disintegration to 2 are pretty similar in their descriptions, so I think they can feed into each other to create an avalanche effect, so there might be a quicker path to 2 for INTP 4s. (Not that the type is doomed to a life of disintegration or anything). So, I think understanding both theories can be extremely beneficial for this type. It is a very ambivalent and in some ways contradictory combination.
I don’t think INTP 4’s are going to be as effective at understanding their emotions or taking care of their emotional need as other 4’s. They can fall victim to a dangerous cycle of repressing/ignoring volatile emotions and not really understanding them until long after they’ve passed, even if there is an effort put forth to understand them. I would say it really only takes the presence of these feelings and maybe the impulse or desire to explore or reconcile these emotions to make someone a 4(among other things, of course), not the ability to do so.
I think one way the envy/broken factor can manifest is being caught in between NF and NT types, especially when not knowing much about either system or when one is mistyped. In the way that being a 4 creates NF-ish traits, but not being as good at being a 4 or really fitting in with other 4’s, but also not being quite as NT-ish as other INTPs or really fitting in with other NTs. There’s always a feeling of inferiority for me when encountering an INFP 4 or an INTP 5 and that’s one of the easiest ways to understand myself as an INTP 4. I’m still doing a lousy job of properly explaining it though, and need to work on it more, but this is the best I can do now. :blushed:
Withdrawing due to feeling unique, broken, or vulnerable can easily apply to thinkers. For me, I just look at these aspects(and spend a lot of time doing so) of myself with Ti, which becomes a little easier to do the older I get.
I don’t think there’s any major conflict between the fairness/objectivity and individuality/uniqueness aspects, at least not enough of one to make the type impossible. Humans are contradictory, illogical creatures by nature, and I see any contradiction from the 4-thinker as incredibly minor.
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intp 4 ≈ infp
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INTP 4 = INFP 5
T 4 = F 5
T 4/5 = F
T/F 4/5 = 1
T/F 4 = 1(5)
All 4’s are really 1w5’s :shocked:
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Oh yeah, I definitely agree that it's not as bizarre as it looks. I think 4w5 INTP is one of those things though that's difficult to make sense of unless you are one, or unless you spend of lot of time researching the possibility of that combination.
There are many other less common combinations that I haven't researched, just because I haven't thought about it, but they would probably fit in the same way. I think there are examples in the world of every possible MBTI/Enneagram combo, and even if there isn't an example of any combination somewhere in the world now(very unlikely), I think that the combination would have existed at some point in human history. Even if it didn't(very, very unlikely) it likely will exist at some point. But, I don't think INTP 4 would even constitute one of the rarer combinations, just a slightly uncommon one.
It's easy to look at the surface and immediately go to the idea of it being impossible or due to a mistype in one of the systems. Even when looking at the likelihood of thinker 4's, I would think INTP would be one of the most likely thinkers to be a 4, maybe second to INTJ.
I think Edgar Allen Poe was a 4w5 INTP, even though he's mostly typed as an INFP.
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We're all living contradictions, totally understand that.
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This thinker vs feeler nonsense is fifty shades of beige.
Everyone feels.
Some deeply.
Some choose to go there.
Some of them still have the ability to temper it with reason.
Passionate + hugely rational (not vs).
Some of them driven by e-motion, with logic steering.
Some of them are able to switch it off.
Even if you can't turn up the volume.
You should still listen to reality.
To not do so would be, irrational.
Thought catalog puts e4s at 3% of INTJs, 9% of INTPs. E5 is by far the most common type for both but interestingly roughly half wing into e4 -- in that sense, an e4 influence in INTXs is common. I am INTJ w4.
https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-priebe/2016/01/mbti-and-the-enneagram-2/8/
Similar results found in this larger study (although slightly higher number of e4 INTJs). Note that e4 is the 2nd most common type for INTPs in this one:
https://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/Enneagram_and_MBTI_Correlation
Apparently it doesn't get stated enough:
Any MBTI can be any enneagram, some are just more common than others.
Everyone feels.
Some deeply.
Some choose to go there.
Some of them still have the ability to temper it with reason.
Passionate + hugely rational (not vs).
Some of them driven by e-motion, with logic steering.
Some of them are able to switch it off.
Even if you can't turn up the volume.
You should still listen to reality.
To not do so would be, irrational.
Thought catalog puts e4s at 3% of INTJs, 9% of INTPs. E5 is by far the most common type for both but interestingly roughly half wing into e4 -- in that sense, an e4 influence in INTXs is common. I am INTJ w4.
https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-priebe/2016/01/mbti-and-the-enneagram-2/8/
Similar results found in this larger study (although slightly higher number of e4 INTJs). Note that e4 is the 2nd most common type for INTPs in this one:
https://www.typologycentral.com/wiki/index.php/Enneagram_and_MBTI_Correlation
Apparently it doesn't get stated enough:
Any MBTI can be any enneagram, some are just more common than others.
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Don't care what thoughtcatalog says.
I'm also a w4 'T' type.
Nobody is arguing against ''influence' or discussing wings.
What simply doesn't work, is a core Type 4 'T' type.
I have no reason to believe the INTPs selecting Type 4 are accurately typed.
Of course, everybody feels, but how are people resonating with both the detached, impersonal and objective 'T' descriptions that literally detail how this comes at the expense of their own and other peoples feelings/values etc - and at the same time, resonating with the subjective Type 4?
We're going from descriptors that outline Thinkers as being relatively removed from their emotions, to Type 4's as the romantics of the Enneagram.
There is a clear conflict here.
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I am. A wing isn't nothing. If your claim that thinkers and e4s are antithetical is correct, e5 INTXs should wing into e6 only (or not wing at all). Instead around half wing into e4.
The second study had 60 out of 726 INTPs type as e4. That's too many to dismiss as possible mistypes.
Another problem you have is that by stating that thinkers can't be e4 you are also denying a basic claim held by enneagram experts: any mbti can be any enneagram type. You know better than the enneagram experts?
How do you do it as a thinker with a 4 wing?
Only if you keep it surface level, if you refuse to see depths and richness. INTJs are often described as 'the most emo of all thinkers'. All thinkers are not the same -- different mbti thinker types are different as well as individuals inside a single mbti T type. A thinker is a person who makes decisions based on thinking. An e4 may amplify their feelings and enjoy feeling generally but when it's decision time for an e4 thinker, they use thinking. That makes perfect sense to me personally -- I am both 'robot' and Romantic (and I only have a 4 wing).
Perhaps the lovely @ukulele will explain for you what it's like inside the head of a 4w5 INTJ.
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No, that's not accurate and not what I'm suggesting.
I don't believe it works as a 'core' type.
I don't see a problem with 'wings'.
I don't think so, and out of curiosity, I would absolutely love the usernames of those 60 members, so I can see what MBTI type and Enneagram type they are typing themselves as at the moment.
Absolutely not, but understand - I don't care about 'experts'.
This should be straightforward, I prefer intuition, thinking, feeling, sensing, in that order.
I don't see the problem with preferring Type 5 on the Enneagram (often associated with Thinking), in conjunction with a lesser 4 wing (associated with Feeling and Intuition) as a T type - the fact that it is a 'wing' and not my 'core' preference should make this point for me.
Even for INTPs, I don't see a problem with a 4 wing - this doesn't contradict anything - 4 has associations with intuition, and INTPs prefer thinking, intuition, sensing and feeling in that order.
I can easily see 5w4 for instance, working perfectly for an INTP even if feeling is inferior for them, as it still works with intuition as a secondary preference.
As a 'core' though, well we're placing F above T, it's as simple as that - INTP 4s, are probably INFPs or INFJs, imo.
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And this is the strict order for you 24/7? Even when you're looking into someone's eyes and telling them you love them?
Indeed I also default to that order. Give me a lazy Sunday and I'll Ni/Te away with book in hand. And since Ni is my dominant function, it always seems 'on'. But I spend an enormous amount of time in Te 'work mode' during the week. And I love relaxing into Fi/Se in the evenings (dance/take a bath, turn off the thinking). I enjoy feeling late at night -- I lean into it. During the day I have no patience for feelings.
So, for me, I am INTJ but I can look ENTJish sometimes and even ISFPish at others. That doesn't make me a mistype, it means I have well developed lower functions. In other words, I can do more. I see an INTX with well developed feeling the same way -- capable of more, not automatically a mistype. If they still make decisions based on thinking, they are, in fact, a thinker.
It's obviously not that simple or there wouldn't be so many INTXs identifying this way. E4s like to feel, they feel deeply. This doesn't speak to how they will make decisions. They aren't placing "F above T" 24/7 in all ways. Therefore it is possible to be both e4 and a mbti thinker. In INTJs it's very easy to imagine enneagram type getting set young (early childhood) and their Te developing later (teen years). The problem is you see e4s who enjoy feeling/feel deeply and immediately associate them with what a feeler is in mbti. They are different things.
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