[Geonerd]

As an ESTP, sometimes it's pretty hard to figure out what my boyfriend is thinking. When we are in the middle of a fight, he often would rather let it be and go to sleep than resolve it. This drives me nuts sometimes because the next morning he just acts like there was never a fight to begin with.

Additionally, when I ask him if he's mad (because I know he's mad) he gets even angrier even though I'm just trying to find out why so I can fix the situation. He becomes very reclusive when ticked off or annoyed and sometimes just sits in silence when I'm trying to fix the problem at hand.

Does any of this sound familiar to you? And when you are mad, what's the best way to handle the situation?

This is exceptionally familiar to me. My ISTJ husband of 13 years gets mad at me for asking if he is mad. I learned to (most of the time) just let him process it and let it go. About 70% of the time, it has nothing to do with me but he is mad about some other thing that is irritating him. I can guarantee if I ask "what's wrong, you seem angry?" he will then become angry at me instead of the thing he was actually mad about. Drives me crazy though because the ENTP questioner and Fe-user in me has a hard time not finding out what is wrong. It takes A LOT to get me angry so I am rarely the one that starts fights. When we would have a whopper of a fight where it was not resolved (and he probably went to far with his anger-mainly throwing inanimate objects), he would pretend the next morning everything was fine. He has learned through the years that it is not acceptable to me to do that. You face up your mistakes and apologize and then you can move on. I make mistakes too, of course, but I don't walk away from a fight and act like everything is fine. I deal with it right then and there.

You are going to have more volatile of fights being an ESTP with an ISTJ (that leading Se like my leading Ne will drive them crazy). Our inconsistent behavior will get on their every last nerve. If you can make it past the initial getting used to the way each other behaves, it is a very fruitful and great relationship though. My husband and I fought tooth and nail the first year we were dating. By the time we got married, we were completely used to each other. I have found that ISTJs (actually SJs in general) are not very rational when angry so if you actually want to have something sink in that you are upset about, wait to talk about it when everyone is relaxed and not angry.

 

[Geonerd]

@myst & @Geonerd ... RE: Dealing with it "right then and there".

@Geonerd ... in your post above, you seem to acknowledge this in your second paragraph, but the first paragraph seems to indicate that it still frustrates you. The words "pretend" and "act" in particular stood out to me. Certainly, you know your husband better than I do, but... In trying to put myself in his shoes, I could certainly understand your need to have more satisfying resolutions, and would want to work on that for/with you. However, seeing words like "pretend" and "act" would cut very deeply, because nothing deceptive or dishonest would actually be going and it would be hurtful that you could think that. @myst 's term "obliviousness", while not a positive thing to be proud of, is probably more accurate than terms that imply dishonesty, deception or avoidance.

No, he definitely was not oblivious to it, he just chose to "pretend" that it didn't happen because he felt guilty and embarrassed he overreacted. It is a learned response from his father, reinforced by his mother. His dad has a big temper and his mom said to me, when we were dating to just let my husband have the equivalent of an adult temper tantrum without saying anything afterwards. I was not accepting of that because, although I don't make him repress his temper, I also know that as an adult, you have to face up to the results of your temper. There are repercussions to your actions. You can't yell and scream at someone or throw a water glass across a room at the wall and think that after walking away and cooling down, you can avoid discussion about what you did.

When I said I deal with it right then and there, I am talking about when I am angry about something, which is VERY rare. I rarely deal with anger by yelling, in general, especially with my husband. I wait until cooler head prevail because fights usually accomplish nothing because no one is really listening to each other. In most of our arguments/fights, I am actually not really mad at all and I didn't start it, he did. I usually only get angry if he continues to yell or does some stupid thing, like break a chair or put a hole in the wall. I am almost annoyingly, to my husband, chill and zen when it comes to anger. It takes a lot to rile me up, which I know my husband can't understand. If my husband's co-worker is dropping the ball about something, this can warrant a day long huge rant and rage from him, while I'll get irritated, it might get a 5 minute rant (not rage) from me and then I move on and forget about it. Same goes for slow or poor service at a restaurant, people who should be doing more for a club or organization he is involved in, a kid putting their shoes in the path of the door, etc.-It will elicit a big and continuing response from him and it will just be a blip to me. The only time I blow up quickly, it usually has something to do with my kids and I know that is a learned behavior from my ESFJ mom who had a heck of a temper when I was a kid.

I have no problem with him needing to cool down to get a rational head. I can tell when he needs it and sometimes even suggests it (although this can sometimes work against me-back to the "gets mad at me for asking if he is angry" thing). However, when you come back after cooling down, choosing to "pretend" it didn't happen is not what helps heal the wounds and it is not a very adult response. I will say, this is when I can see Fi versus Fe the most though. In general, my husband has more sensitive feelings than me and is actually better than me at not hurting other people's feelings when he is not in throws of a big emotion himself. However, when he is upset about something, it is all about his comfort and feelings, so he assumes that since he feels better, everyone else should feel better. Unfortunately, all the Fe-users around him (which is his entire household-me, my INTP son, and my ESFJ daughter) are still shaken up by his big emotion. I guess there is some obliviousness (because of the Fi) but based on his response to our fights after (and the ones he tends to pick with our INTP son), it is guilt and embarrassment that is the real reason. I guess I could use a better word than "pretend" but "oblivious" would not be it, "avoidance" is probably more appropriate.

 

[Geonerd]

By default I wouldn't take it personally, it's just emotion that passes, it's not like loud words and stuff like that can't be allowed lol, as long as the person did not do something that has more lasting consequences, like destroying property, which he apparently does do. (Or do something else that's seriously unfair.) So I do see it as a problem in his case.

I'm curious, how do you typically react when he starts ranting like this? I don't get why it lasts for a whole day for him. Maybe part of his whole anger issue.

I don't know, apparently this depends on the person? I would be seriously annoyed at the minimum and would definitely not let him off the hook if he destroyed shit or tried to attack or something. But I don't know what sort of wounds you are talking about here. Psychological due to the shouting, due to word choices, etc?

This kinda sounds like an assumption about what he assumes internally lol. Do you know for a fact that he explicitly expects others to feel better along with him feeling better or is it simply that he doesn't know how the other people were actually psychologically (?) affected more long term (compared to him) by the angry outbreaks? I get it that some people are more sensitive about these things.

And if he is not aware of that, he should become aware of it, but only if the whole anger issue gets treated too or otherwise it'd just end in more guilt that doesn't lead anywhere. I wouldn't expect such awareness to magically resolve the (more complex) anger issue itself. This is how it would be for me, anyway.

I make it sound worse than it is. He does have a temper but the anger rage is not something that happens often, not even monthly. The "rage" anger is never physical at any of us, just inanimate objects. When he yells he can be intimidating (he's big guy) but he rarely says mean things, in fact I am a much dirtier fighter. Usually I take the rant even if it is aimed at me; however, what usually will set me off is when he talks to me as if I was child who doesn't know anything because I didn't do something the way he would. I mostly point out how much of a double standard this is because he would get really mad if I talked to him the same way.

I know my perspective looking at this is coming from a completely different place mainly because things just truly do not bother me very much. I tend to rationalize my emotions first, rather than react and majority of the time I have rationalized them to the point of no longer being upset. If not, I will usually address it in a pretty calm way. I've been like that my whole life. My INTJ dad is very chill too and does a similar rationalizing thing but he is less likely than me to actually express himself if after he rationalizes his anger, it is still there. Being Ne, I tend to be oblivious to the details (so I don't even notice the thing that could make me upset in the first place) and being Fe makes me more bothered by other people's emotions over my own.

As far as how I react, in some circumstances I can let it fly off me and I just let him rant and he usually fizzles out quick. I have a harder time when his anger affects my kids (mother instincts). He and my INTP son butt heads a lot, mostly because my son is a typical xNTP that is very inconsistent which drives my husband crazy and my son doesn't understand what sets him off and is the type that absorbs negativity more than positivity. This is an issue because in my experience with ISTJs-not just my husband- they tend to not celebrate people doing things the right way because they assume doing things the right way is status quo; however, they are the first to point out when someone is doing something they consider wrong. For a kid that absorbs negativity, this comes across as "my dad thinks I never do anything right". I've had to explain that no comment from dad means you are doing it right and that us correcting him is just teaching him social/living skills. That bothers me more since reading the INTP boards when they talk about having an ISTJ parent, there is some deep scars, although the older ones understand what was going on better. The young ones are depressing (as much of the INTP board is).

He is more aware of the fact it affects the people around him, really since me. Since his family let him express his anger with no repercussions, he had not learned how to deal with the after affect. He hadn't really had a serious GF before me and most of his friends would tend to just not hang around him for a while if he was moody too much around them. When it was just me and him, he was not as concerned about how it affects me because I was an adult that could process it but he can see how the kids react, so he is more aware of how it affects them, hence the guilt and embarrassment.