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INTJ Male--Is He Into Me or Just Waiting For Sex?

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#22 ·
In general, some of you ladies should stop using your bodies to audition for the girlfriend role. If you don't feel comfortable, then don't have sexual contact.

For me, discussing ones weaknesses is not an aphrodisiac, but if that's what you're into and he's not giving it to you while enjoying hands-on time that leaves you confused, then what are you doing this for?

It's possible that he doesn't feel close with you (lol) and also possible that he only wants sex, but really, what does that matter when, according to you, he isn't straightforward at all?

Don't worry about what he's thinking. You haven't asked and it's not like you'll know the truth even if you do, so process what's acceptable and make the appropriate changes for the future.

Fwiw, I move very slowly, even more so now since I'm not down with the sex positive BS that's pushed onto girls and women these days. So if I'm not ready, then the guy ain't getting a thing, no matter how much I like him. No amount of cajoling or moodiness can change that.
 
#23 ·
R2-D2 said:
I'm not necessarily looking for marriage myself... But I am looking for emotional commitment in a real relationship. I'd probably be selling my own desires short by having sex before then.
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Perhaps we just view marriage differently because to me "emotional commitment in a real relationship" is at the heart of a marriage and what its all about to me. And as with any long term commitment of utmost importance its prudent to have it officially in writing where it can be upheld in the court of law. Banks for example do not take our word for it that we will honor our commitment to do what we say when it comes to them entrusting us with thousands of dollars; and surely your heart, mind, and body are far more valuable to you than thousands of dollars are to a bank. Or at least you sound like it is.
 
#24 ·
R2-D2 said:
I'm not necessarily looking for marriage myself... But I am looking for emotional commitment in a real relationship. I'd probably be selling my own desires short by having sex before then.
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Hello! INFP here. I hope you don't mind a little different perspective. First I will say that I, like lilysocks, am from another generation and this whole "sex on the third date" expectation is not in my comfort zone. Of course I didn't date much before I got married and everyone I got close to was someone I had been friends with so we didn't date so much as just fall into a relationship. Regardless, stick to your guns. Men as a rule, regardless of type, don't equate sex with emotional intimacy one way or another. You can look to evolutionary psychology rather than personality type for your answers about that.

It's not like I know nothing about him that matters to me. I just don't know about his hopes, dreams, and fears, and how he feels about me--i.e, the feeling-type categories. I do know about his beliefs, values, political views, upbringing, family, work, personal interests, and life habits. Together with physical attraction, I'd say that's more than enough to start developing feelings, even on date #5. I've also read that people tend to start falling in love between dates #3 and 6, so I don't think I'm wildly outside the range of normalcy.
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Here is what made me want to jump in. You are saying you know about his beliefs, values, political views, upbringing, family, work... and then saying he hasn't opened up to you? I guess I have to ask, what are you expecting? This IS opening up, as far as most men in general, and NTJs in particular, are concerned. INTJs are generally bright, insightful, a bit emotionally clueless, offbeat, and play things close to the vest. Telling you all the practical stuff is how they open up. My husband is an ENTJ (they tend to be much more open), and if I asked him his fears he would say "being hit by an asteroid". Whereas mine would be "dying alone" which would lead to a whole existential conversation. His hopes involve having a comfortable life and doing some fun things. I mean, he's a practical man. All the crazy "but what does it all MEAN" stuff comes from me. And it works for us.

If you are expecting an INTJ male to lay his innards out on a table and dissect them for you, that is just not how he is likely wired and you would confuse him by asking.

Which is not to say you can't expect emotional intimacy, but it will come another way. It will come in moments of frustration or anger or happiness, not (usually) in a long heart-to-heart.

NTJs like to talk about things and ideas, not people. What are your common interests? What do you like to do together? Talk about those things and the stuff you are looking for will occasionally drop into the conversation. And when it does, you don't want to make a big deal of it, probably. Just accept it and affirm it and let him move on.

If indeed you want long emotional heart-to-hearts with him doing much of the talking, then you are possibly more suited for another type. Likely an NF type. INTJs can be wonderful listeners, but all that hopes-dreams-fears stuff is not really how they measure their own days. What I see on here a lot is people who mistakenly think that under that reserved exterior is a huge well of unspoken emotion just dying to find someone with the right key to unlock it. That is not their driving force behind looking for a romantic partner.

If an INTJ will be silly for you, will listen to you, will make time for you and offer practical help to you, chances are they like you quite a lot. If he comes to you when he is frustrated about something and if he listens to your advice, he probably trusts you. That part will likely take more than 5 dates though.

If you want emotional outpouring, you want another feeler type. And there is nothing wrong with wanting that.

You're right that I may be contributing towards getting hurt again. But what would be the alternative? To detach and avoid emotional investment? That seems to be exactly what Jaycen is suggesting would feed into my INTJ's paranoia and possibly create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Or is it to have no hopes or expectations? That's incredibly difficult (I am human and do have feelings for him, after all), but I can certainly try my best to do so...
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The answer is to look at yourself honestly and say "Can I accept this person for who he is and not ask him to be someone he isn't?"

Again, reading your own words it seems he has been both available to you, open with you, and respectful of your boundaries. Seems like a good start. It may well be that nothing has happened in his day to day life to make him feel the need to be emotional, you know? My own experience with both my ENTJ husband and a close INTJ friend is they don't have a bunch of stuff they sit on just waiting for someone to tell. It's more that something happens and if you are the one they go to with that thing that just happened, then you are the one they most trust. If that makes sense.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I wanted to throw something else into the conversation.

I recently took a very elaborate 300 + question emotional intellgence test. There was a section on identifying feelings in yourself. It described bodily sensations and asked you to put a feeling to it (jealousy, trepidation, attraction, etc). I sort of just clicked quickly through it; it seemed easy relative to some of the "how would you handle this impossible work situation" questions.

I was surprised to score in the 95th percentile on that particular section. It had never occurred to me, before that moment, that this is not something everyone can do easily (identify their own complex emotions).

I did some digging after that and found about 10% of the general population, and something like 80% of those with high-functioning autism/ Aspergers, cannot identify their own emotions very well. It's called alexithymia.

Within the normal range, the ability to identify emotions probably falls along the bell curve. The point is that if you are one of the people who identifies them easily and talks about them a lot, you assume everyone else can to. And some people just can't. Which is frustrating for them, if they keep getting pressed.

As an extreme example, imagine if you could only see the world in black and white (I am borrowing this analogy from someone). You see a lot of complexity and detail, but all in shades of grey. Someone keeps holding up a card and saying "Is this green or blue?" Imagine your frustration, then annoyance, then possibly feeling like there must be something wrong with them or you. You understand the concept that green and blue exist, but you can not really tell them what the card is. If you had some context, maybe--- people have told you the sky is blue so if someone gives you a picture of a sunny sky you might say it's blue.

Other people are guarded for other reasons, but not everyone who doesn't talk about feelings has something to hide, or is even being guarded. I would say outside of happy/sad my husband does not have a very big emotional language. I can figure out what he feels by the context. Again it works for us, it would not work for everyone. My INTJ friend would get so frustrated and defensive if I asked him feely type questions and at first I was hurt, but the fact that he kept sticking around made me realize it wasn't rejection. He really didn't know how to answer me or what I was looking for.
 
Discussion starter · #26 · (Edited)
You all make great points. Interestingly, though, the post that resonates the most for me isn't from an INTJ, but from Blue Flower.

Maybe I'm expecting the wrong things. I've never dated an NTJ before. Historically, my easiest relationships have been with NFs who were demonstrative, affectionate, and talked freely about their feelings. My last relationship was with an NTP, and we struggled mightily with communication surrounding feelings. I wonder if maybe NTJ or even NT types are not the best fit for me (as Jaycen was alluding to)... I admire my INTJ and have feelings for him, but I could see how in a long-term relationship, my emotional needs might go unfulfilled.

Blue Flower, the analogy about identifying emotions via colors is helpful. I'm pretty decent at identifying my own emotions, but I've had many years of practice with NF boyfriends who taught me how to do that. I suppose it's not really fair to expect that from everyone else.

Only time will tell, but this may all be irrelevant now anyway since my INTJ has been increasingly withdrawn...which I'm inclined to interpret in the traditional way, that he's losing interest in me. Confusingly, though, I get so much conflicting advice from other INTJs about what this means. Some INTJs tell me he does have a deep well of unspoken emotion and is withdrawing from discomfort about his own emotions or a fear of being burned. Others tell me it doesn't mean anything and that he probably hasn't even noticed anything has changed.
 
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#27 · (Edited)
R2-D2 said:
Only time will tell, but this may all be irrelevant now anyway since my INTJ has been increasingly withdrawn...which I'm inclined to interpret in the traditional way, that he's losing interest in me. Confusingly, though, I get so much conflicting advice from other INTJs about what this means. Some INTJs tell me he does have a deep well of unspoken emotion and is withdrawing from discomfort about his own emotions or a fear of being burned. Others tell me it doesn't mean anything and that he probably hasn't even noticed anything has changed.
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Well, that may be because we are kind of nuts, lol. When you have a type that is known for its individualistic nature, he obviously won't have many like him out there to be compared. I could give you a personal example, but that probably wouldn't be the case for other INTJs.

When I "like" a girl, I don't just "like". Either I'm obsessed with the girl and think about her every day, or I don't care at all about her, no matter how good she looks or how well she treats me (99,99% of the women out there), and to know I care so much about someone, hurts my pride really badly (again, don't ask me why, this is a conclusion I've drawn after analyzing my internal, vicious cycle many times). So I automatically start behaving like I don't care too much, my brain enters in a bipolar/ignore mode 50% of the time I encounter such person.

Its like I picked up my feelings with my hands, looked and them and thought: "What kind of disease is this? I am flawless, how could I've been so sloppy?"

I lost track of how many times I've sabotaged interactions with my girlfriend out of simple, instinctual, pure pride. If it wasn't for her actions, we probably would've never even kissed. I took me MONTHS to have a real conversation with her (we only stared at each other), and I already knew a lot about her, while she didn't know a thing about me (I know, I know, scary).

So, what I'm telling you, is: He could be pretending to not care too much, that's why he acts withdrawn. But hey, I guess only he knows. :crazy:
 
#28 ·
R2-D2 said:
You all make great points. Interestingly, though, the post that resonates the most for me isn't from an INTJ, but from Blue Flower.

Maybe I'm expecting the wrong things. I've never dated an NTJ before. Historically, my easiest relationships have been with NFs who were demonstrative, affectionate, and talked freely about their feelings. My last relationship was with an NTP, and we struggled mightily with communication surrounding feelings. I wonder if maybe NTJ or even NT types are not the best fit for me (as Jaycen was alluding to)... I admire my INTJ and have feelings for him, but I could see how in a long-term relationship, my emotional needs might go unfulfilled.
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I can compare my ENTJ husband to my INTJ friend, but it's impossible to say which differences are type-related, which are individual, and which are due to the fact that one is a romantic partner and one is platonic. Overall I would say my husband is very expressive of feelings but they are primary-colored emotions: He liked me then he loved me but there was not a lot of analysis there. INTJ seems to think more of the why behind behavior/ preferences but is not very expressive at all. If indeed he is that way in relationships (and I don't know if he is) I would struggle because my primary love language is Words of Affirmation.

My husband had his share of bad experiences growing up and he shared them with me but in a fact-based way. My INTJ friend also tends to mention things in a fact-based way and if I can relate I will sometimes tell my own similar story and give a more emotionally analytical point of view, and after that it seems to me that his feeling is "we" talked about the issue when in fact I talked and his lack of counter point indicated he concurred, or rather felt similarly. It is... a different way of sharing, definitely. For me, it requires a certain amount of patience.

That said, I like the emotional stability that (health) NTJs provide. I like that I can have my overwrought moments and share and not bring my husband down. So it's a trade-off.

Blue Flower, the analogy about identifying emotions via colors is helpful. I'm pretty decent at identifying my own emotions, but I've had many years of practice with NF boyfriends who taught me how to do that. I suppose it's not really fair to expect that from everyone else.
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I borrowed the analogy from a book written by someone on the spectrum, so as i said it's a more extreme example (and he used it in a slightly different context, but it was regarding emotions). It really helped me understand how frustrating it is to be on the other side of that, better than more technical explanations.

Only time will tell, but this may all be irrelevant now anyway since my INTJ has been increasingly withdrawn...which I'm inclined to interpret in the traditional way, that he's losing interest in me. Confusingly, though, I get so much conflicting advice from other INTJs about what this means. Some INTJs tell me he does have a deep well of unspoken emotion and is withdrawing from discomfort about his own emotions or a fear of being burned. Others tell me it doesn't mean anything and that he probably hasn't even noticed anything has changed.
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Hmmm, well, testing-of-the-waters should respond favorably to reassurance whereas withdrawal will not. So if say he normally contacts you and wants to see if you are serious, he might restrain from contacting you to see if you will make the effort but then should respond positively if you do. If he is withdrawing from lack of interest efforts to contact him would result in more dismissiveness.

I will say that if you decide he is not a good match, please don't take the "here is how you are broken" approach but rather the "this isn't the best fit" approach. "I really like you, I admire you but you seem the strong-and-steady type and I'm more the poetry-and-romance type" or something like that.
 
#29 ·
An equally reciprocal relationship (emotionally, mentally, disclosure, conversations, etc) is your goal.
You can do a lot better than this guy.
Move on.
 
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#30 ·
ponpiri said:
In general, some of you ladies should stop using your bodies to audition for the girlfriend role. If you don't feel comfortable, then don't have sexual contact.
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Let me fix this sentence a bit: You should stop auditioning for the girlfriend role.

But I think it's related to age. Young women are socialized into wanting to be attractive and are constantly judged according to whether they are attractive to their environment or not, both in terms of looks and behavior, so they internalize it a lot. Afterwards, many stop caring and start to see it more like an exchange: does he offer what I need? Does he like me the way I am?

The changing attitude to sexuality goes with that. Not wanting to "appear a sl*t" when you are young and not giving a thought about it when you are a bit older. Currently, if a guy didn't want to have sex with me for 3+ dates I would start losing interest. Being compatible in this respect is so important... And it's good to confirm you are compatible at the beginning, before you start getting really involved emotionally.

Obviously, it doesn't mean the author needs to want it too. If she doesn't that's totally fine. But the guy's intentions isn't sth she should worry about. Because she won't ever be sure about the guy's intentions. And, honestly, I think the guy doesn't know himself what he wants - checking the chemistry in bed could help to figure it out. At least it helps in my case.
 
#32 ·
TheTraveller7 said:
Let me fix this sentence a bit: You should stop auditioning for the girlfriend role.

But I think it's related to age. Young women are socialized into wanting to be attractive and are constantly judged according to whether they are attractive to their environment or not, both in terms of looks and behavior, so they internalize it a lot. Afterwards, many stop caring and start to see it more like an exchange: does he offer what I need? Does he like me the way I am?

The changing attitude to sexuality goes with that. Not wanting to "appear a sl*t" when you are young and not giving a thought about it when you are a bit older. Currently, if a guy didn't want to have sex with me for 3+ dates I would start losing interest. Being compatible in this respect is so important... And it's good to confirm you are compatible at the beginning, before you start getting really involved emotionally.

Obviously, it doesn't mean the author needs to want it too. If she doesn't that's totally fine. But the guy's intentions isn't sth she should worry about. Because she won't ever be sure about the guy's intentions. And, honestly, I think the guy doesn't know himself what he wants - checking the chemistry in bed could help to figure it out. At least it helps in my case.
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It seems completely wrong to think women are 'giving something up' with sex, setting up some kind of false conflict from the start. If someone ever feels like sex is giving up something, that attitude is going to sabotage any prospect of a "healthy" intimate relationship imo.
 
#33 ·
TheTraveller7 said:
And it's good to confirm you are compatible at the beginning, before you start getting really involved emotionally.
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as best i can tell from my own personally-subjective perspective, that probably works fine for some people. it's the rationale i saw to explain it when i first read the article that was my wakeup call about how much things have changed. and lord, i've had friends from all over the spectrum on it so it's been interesting to hear their perspectives on what works for them.

but like any other template on 'how to sex and relationship', i don't think it's necessarily applicable to everybody. taking myself as a case in point, i'm not impersonal enough about sex itself. 'compatibility' is so much a matter of mental affinity too that a third-date concept just holds no meaning for me. unless you're talking about checking out the strictly mechanical implications of whether there's an anatomical fit, three 'dates' is a joke. i just wouldn't have gathered enough of a type of information that - for me - has just as much relevance as any questions about whether tab a is a good fit for slot b. to put it a different way: i might find out by sleeping with a stranger whether those factors 'work', technically. but absent the social and mental aspects, i wouldn't have any plan to keep sleeping with them anyway. so coming at a point in time so early that i had no picture at all what our long-term attitude towards one another might be, that information would be so irrelevant as not to be worth collecting.

i probably fall somewhere well in the middle of a spectrum that starts with the op and ends at an approach like your own, but i offer the thought for whatever it's worth.
 
#34 ·
TheTraveller7 said:
Let me fix this sentence a bit: You should stop auditioning for the girlfriend role.

But I think it's related to age. Young women are socialized into wanting to be attractive and are constantly judged according to whether they are attractive to their environment or not, both in terms of looks and behavior, so they internalize it a lot. Afterwards, many stop caring and start to see it more like an exchange: does he offer what I need? Does he like me the way I am?

The changing attitude to sexuality goes with that. Not wanting to "appear a sl*t" when you are young and not giving a thought about it when you are a bit older. Currently, if a guy didn't want to have sex with me for 3+ dates I would start losing interest. Being compatible in this respect is so important... And it's good to confirm you are compatible at the beginning, before you start getting really involved emotionally.

Obviously, it doesn't mean the author needs to want it too. If she doesn't that's totally fine. But the guy's intentions isn't sth she should worry about. Because she won't ever be sure about the guy's intentions. And, honestly, I think the guy doesn't know himself what he wants - checking the chemistry in bed could help to figure it out. At least it helps in my case.
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Nah. I think what I originally wrote is appropriate for OP.
 
#35 ·
He has already said that sex is not emotional for him... But it is for me, at least when I have feelings for the person--which I do. Hence my fear...
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Why would anyone have anything to do with someone who is this shallow?

Desperate?
Insecure?
 
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#36 · (Edited)
**I have read that INTJs don't get sexually attracted unless they feel a mental (and, by extension sometimes, emotional) connection.**

Multiple scenarios are possible. Of course, there are testosterone-driven INTJs who aim straight for the bed sheets. But on the other hand it is also possible that like it the quote above, sexuality is strongly interwoven with the mental connection. And it is also quite possible that even if the INTJ cannot put himself in someone else's shoes, he is highly sensitive to pick up small changes in your attitude and mirrors that.

INFPs are superior to talk with about this stuff - yes, oftentimes an INTJ don't really know what he feels and can even less express these feelings. If he is the type where sexuality (and ultimatively, the emotional connection too) depends on a mental connection, the only possible solution is to take it slow. Do things together, enjoy your mental connection and what happens, happens. If this course of action is what both involved parties want. The first stage - like having a new toy - can already produce *some undefined* feelings, but this stage is already past if he retracted somewhat. But if he is still interested, the easiest way to find out is: If he is still ready to spend time together that means a lot. Because time is the most precious thing and at least I don't invest that for somebody I don't like. And the one INTJ I have dated simply cut me off when it became clear that it wouldn't get her what she wanted.

And there is also the scenario where the relationship between two people gets stuck and doesn't evolve anymore. You can accept that - and it will possibly stay in that state forever, but most likely will wither and die - or someone has to give it a push - either the other will happily accept that push and move forward or it is destined for failure anyway. Just don't be too pushy and clingy … ideally, the initiative is equally balanced if that too is what both partners want.
 
#38 ·
I am an INTJ female but i may could have the perspective on this.

INTJ have no intention to make such a game with love, but if they did, it'll being obvious, they won't even say the word love itself. But since he told you about his relationship, and that he likes you, etc, it is clear that he has developed the feeling -even may deeper than yours-.

But as you mentioned the way he behave then, it's not mean that the feeling has changed. I don't want to mention why he behave the way he did and how is feelings because it's a little bit complicated. INTJ don't have much secrets actually, but if they have, it's being more difficult to reveal. Just ask him what you want to know, but if he doesn't answer, it maybe so hard to them, no need to being confused, they may answer it soon as they feel it is right to tell you.

Just be patient and be a little bit open about what your thought, because INTJs can be overwhelmed if they can't read someones mind. Also, they get what you feel, INTJ are HSPs especially towards the person the love, but even if we get what you feel, we do not always have the right things to do with. All we want is just to please you, maybe it is why he withdraw, maybe he thought that you need a bit space. We don't really good at emotional condition.
 
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