[cacklinq]

Any INTJ 4w5 out there?

Many times in the past couple of years I've typed myself over and over again. I always end up an INTJ, followed closely by INFJ. When it comes to the Enneagram I have always tested type 4w5. If I understand the translation between MBTI and Enneagram types, I test the inverse of each other every time.

Does anyone else test as a 4w5? Do you think this is strange, unlikely or plain impossible? Also, if you do type as an INTJ 4w5, how does that work out for you? I've found that for myself, it could explain a lot of my general anxiety if I think to myself too deeply about things. I get very conflicted and nervous; it kind of feels as if I'm being pulled around in both directions at once, especially for heavy topics such as morality, ethics, social issues, politics etc.

I have a feeling I may be an INTJ 4w5 because although on the inside I'm walking around an emotional mess, I will walk around with the straightest face and the most no-nonsense, "I have no time for your emotions only your ideas" attitude, despite the fact that I may be bleeding for you on the inside. Very confusing.

Maybe I've mistyped somewhere?

 

[SweetPickles]

4w1?

 

[L'Empereur]

There may be some in here:

http://personalitycafe.com/intj-forum-scientists/67769-master-list-intj-enneagram-types-11.html

 

[Afterburner]

I don't know much about Enneagram, but I do know that there aren't strict translations between the two systems, especially since they aren't for the same parts of one's personality, but correct me if I'm wrong. Plus, if you are a teenager (since I see that you're Gen. Z), you're an immature emotional mess on the inside anyway. I'm the same way though, and I'm a 5w4, regarding these:

I get very conflicted and nervous; it kind of feels as if I'm being pulled around in both directions at once, especially for heavy topics such as morality, ethics, social issues, politics etc.

I will walk around with the straightest face and the most no-nonsense, "I have no time for your emotions only your ideas" attitude, despite the fact that I may be bleeding for you on the inside.

 

[Figure]

There is no such thing as a 4w1, only 4w3, 4w5, or a 4 with no preference to either wing. All the "w" means is that you take on some characteristics of one of the types on the right or left side of your type. Each type on the enneagram is a kind of hybrid of the two to the right or left of it, and you can lean more to the right or left.

On the right of type 4 is type 3, which is a type that wants to be seen as successful, wants validation for being superior in some way, and tends to lie about who they really are. On the left side is type 5, who tends to hoard time, knowledge, and resources from others and live in a detached way, always collecting more information so they can finally feel like they can live without being overwhelmed by the world around them.

The "hybrid," type 4, generally focuses their inner world around Envy. It's an emotional, image-oriented type that tends to feel high degrees of shame and disconnection from reality as it relates to their ideals, particularly of who they "really" are and how they identify themselves. 4's have the emptiness of 5 and the image-orientation of 3. They seek depth and meaning, but they also emote strongly and tend to feel like the grass is always greener somewhere else.


I can speak more about type 4 or any enneatype if that would help, but otherwise I do not believe INTJ and type 4 is a likely combination. While any enneagram type is possible for any MBTI type and there are several INTJ here who identify as type 4, type 4 in general is stereotyped as being a lot more intensely emotive and in touch with their feelings here and now than INTJ are stereotyped.

 

[himynameisdead]

Many times in the past couple of years I've typed myself over and over again. I always end up an INTJ, followed closely by INFJ. When it comes to the Enneagram I have always tested type 4w5. If I understand the translation between MBTI and Enneagram types, I test the inverse of each other every time.

Does anyone else test as a 4w5? Do you think this is strange, unlikely or plain impossible? Also, if you do type as an INTJ 4w5, how does that work out for you? I've found that for myself, it could explain a lot of my general anxiety if I think to myself too deeply about things. I get very conflicted and nervous; it kind of feels as if I'm being pulled around in both directions at once, especially for heavy topics such as morality, ethics, social issues, politics etc.

I have a feeling I may be an INTJ 4w5 because although on the inside I'm walking around an emotional mess, I will walk around with the straightest face and the most no-nonsense, "I have no time for your emotions only your ideas" attitude, despite the fact that I may be bleeding for you on the inside. Very confusing.

Maybe I've mistyped somewhere?

I'm pretty blunt and front I don't give a ..? are there rules about profanity here? Anyways, I had a similar issue typing myself with MBTI and trying to understand the enneagram correlation, but I've learn a lot after several years of research and speaking people/studying results. iNtj and iNfj tend to be mistaken for one another because their introvert intuition serves as their dominant function. inFp and iNfj tend to be mistaken for one another because of confusion regarding the "judging" and "perceiving" functions, which really are just the inversions of Fx and Tx.

Extroverted Thinking looks outside to organize things in a way that is appropriate and what is considered efficient regarding the task at hand. Introverted Thinking looks inside to organize things in a way that is natural, and does this consistently regardless of context. Likewise Extroverted Feeling looks outside to judge what behaviors may be considered correct or incorrect given the context while Introverted Feeling looks inside to see where a situation sits on their personal moral compass.

For me, the most telling sign was which judgement function I identified with, and how strongly, because after you figure that out, you can also look at whether or not you are dominant as an rationalist or idealist, which brings you close to establishing your best fit type. Whichever you find as being natural, that's your preference in typology. What you want to be like in how you act is something else.

Now then, between xNxx and xxFx/xxTx, the focus will be less on values and more on understanding things related to your values. For iNtj is tends to be focused on conduct in various situations and understanding obstructions that prevent things from running as smoothly as they could, and how to become more efficient/impactful on the world, for the sake of achieving their goals. iNfjs tend to be focused on ethics and theory, to understand how to resolve issues creatively regarding people and societal values, and it's really easy to see where and why there are conflicts. It's not about correcting things, but creating harmony.

inFp is focused on how to make society function more efficiently and figuring out how people should act to correct a situation for the best. This may not focusing on encouraging harmony as much as winning an argument. this is all I have the energy to write, sorry. It tends to be pretty volatile but I hope it helps someone somewhere.

 

[Clyme]

Many times in the past couple of years I've typed myself over and over again. I always end up an INTJ, followed closely by INFJ. When it comes to the Enneagram I have always tested type 4w5. If I understand the translation between MBTI and Enneagram types, I test the inverse of each other every time.

Does anyone else test as a 4w5? Do you think this is strange, unlikely or plain impossible? Also, if you do type as an INTJ 4w5, how does that work out for you? I've found that for myself, it could explain a lot of my general anxiety if I think to myself too deeply about things. I get very conflicted and nervous; it kind of feels as if I'm being pulled around in both directions at once, especially for heavy topics such as morality, ethics, social issues, politics etc.

I have a feeling I may be an INTJ 4w5 because although on the inside I'm walking around an emotional mess, I will walk around with the straightest face and the most no-nonsense, "I have no time for your emotions only your ideas" attitude, despite the fact that I may be bleeding for you on the inside. Very confusing.

Maybe I've mistyped somewhere?

I'm an INTJ 4w5, and it is a bit of an utter mental disaster. It's like having the analytical and systematic skills for your emotions and neuroticism to go to town with. I don't think you've necessarily mistyped anywhere just because you've come out with these things. If you have any specific questions about it though, I'm always happy to answer.

I've had my own range of problems from identity bankruptcy to the whole weirdly on-off emotional control while still being overwhelmed my intense emotions.

 

[Maximus Deus]

I'm an INTJ 4w5, and it is a bit of an utter mental disaster. It's like having the analytical and systematic skills for your emotions and neuroticism to go to town with. I don't think you've necessarily mistyped anywhere just because you've come out with these things. If you have any specific questions about it though, I'm always happy to answer.

I've had my own range of problems from identity bankruptcy to the whole weirdly on-off emotional control while still being overwhelmed my intense emotions.

I'm a 4w5 as well, and I agree with this.

Being an INTJ 4w5 is being 100% aware of why you have certain emotions/goals/desires, understanding that these reasons are irrational, yet never being able to get rid of them. It's essentially living with a side that says "this is what I want", while another goes "why the fuck would you want that?" simultaneously, with neither trumping the other.

 

[Clyme]

I'm a 4w5 as well, and I agree with this.

Being an INTJ 4w5 is being 100% aware of why you have certain emotions/goals/desires, understanding that these reasons are irrational, yet never being able to change rid of them. It's essentially living with a side that says "this is what I want", while another goes "why the fuck would you want that?" simultaneously, with neither trumping the other.

Yeah, it's exactly that. Being able to balance yourself out can be incredibly beneficial, but it's very easy to become deeply unhealthy, at least that's what I've found.

 

[treschanna]

I'm a 4w5 as well, and I agree with this.

Being an INTJ 4w5 is being 100% aware of why you have certain emotions/goals/desires, understanding that these reasons are irrational, yet never being able to change rid of them. It's essentially living with a side that says "this is what I want", while another goes "why the fuck would you want that?" simultaneously, with neither trumping the other.

Do you find that on the rare occasion that you try to express your feelings and thoughts to people and they take advantage of it you get angry at yourself for even making yourself vulnerable in the first place?? If so, do you find yourself becoming resentful and upset to the point where you completely isolate yourself after that?? I'm a 4w5 as well and I'm trying to figure out unhealthy 4w5 behavior.

 

[Maximus Deus]

Do you find that on the rare occasion that you try to express your feelings and thoughts to people and they take advantage of it you get angry at yourself for even making yourself vulnerable in the first place?? If so, do you find yourself becoming resentful and upset to the point where you completely isolate yourself after that?? I'm a 4w5 as well and I'm trying to figure out unhealthy 4w5 behavior.

Could you provide a specific example? I generally don't express my feelings to an extent that would allow people to take advantage of me, so I wouldn't know. I don't know exactly what you're referring to, so I don't think I can answer accurately.

 

[treschanna]

Could you provide a specific example? I generally don't express my feelings to an extent that would allow people to take advantage of me, so I wouldn't know. I don't know exactly what you're referring to, so I don't think I can answer accurately.

Well for example in part of the wing 4 description it mentions that wing 4s do have a deep desire to connect with other people.

While it is true that Fours often feel different from others, they do not really want to be alone. They may feel socially awkward or self-conscious, but they deeply wish to connect with people who understand them and their feelings. The “romantics” of the Enneagram, they long for someone to come into their lives and appreciate the secret self that they have privately nurtured and hidden from the world. If, over time, such validation remains out of reach, Fours begin to build their identity around how unlike everyone else they are. The outsider therefore comforts herself by becoming an insistent individualist: everything must be done on her own, in her own way, on her own terms. Fours’ mantra becomes “I am myself. Nobody understands me. I am different and special,” while they secretly wish they could enjoy the easiness and confidence that others seem to enjoy.

Well I'm not sure what you personally would consider "being taken advantage of" but I'm referring to how you'd react of a series of people you had gotten involved with emotionally turned out to be completely disregarding your thoughts and feelings even after you trusted them and opened up to them, in favor of promoting their own agenda. I think I'm referring to how you'd respond if someone identified any point of weakness in you as a person based on the things you told them and used that point of weakness to influence you and promote their own agenda. And it wasn't just one person it was a series of people that you tried to establish connections with. How would you react after being taken advantage of emotionally and influenced numerous times?

 

[Maximus Deus]

Well for example in part of the wing 4 description it mentions that wing 4s do have a deep desire to connect with other people.



Well I'm not sure what you personally would consider "being taken advantage of" but I'm referring to how you'd react of a series of people you had gotten involved with emotionally turned out to be completely disregarding your thoughts and feelings even after you trusted them and opened up to them, in favor of promoting their own agenda. I think I'm referring to how you'd respond if someone identified any point of weakness in you as a person based on the things you told them and used that point of weakness to influence you and promote their own agenda. And it wasn't just one person it was a series of people that you tried to establish connections with. How would you react after being taken advantage of emotionally and influenced numerous times?

Being manipulated emotionally is a huge fear of mine, so as I've said, I generally make it a point not to give people the power to manipulate me in such a way. On the rare occasions that I am betrayed by others, I'm mostly angry at myself for letting my guard down. The reason for that is that I expect people to be inherently, selfish and manipulative in their own favour, so when I realize that I'm the one being manipulated, I shift the blame to myself. It's been a long time, though, since I've been in such a situation, and I don't think I'd react in an extreme way nowadays. I'm much more passive about these things, mainly because people and their intentions are the least of my concerns. I've found that the more busy/driven I am, the less people's attempts at manipulating me bother me (because long-term it's all very insignificant).

 

[treschanna]

Being manipulated emotionally is a huge fear of mine, so as I've said, I generally make it a point not to give people the power to manipulate me in such a way. On the rare occasions that I am betrayed by others, I'm mostly angry at myself for letting my guard down. The reason for that is that I expect people to be inherently, selfish and manipulative in their own favour, so when I realize that I'm the one being manipulated, I shift the blame to myself. It's been a long time, though, since I've been in such a situation, and I don't think I'd react in an extreme way nowadays. I'm much more passive about these things, mainly because people and their intentions are the least of my concerns. I've found that the more busy/driven I am, the less people's attempts at manipulating me bother me (because long-term it's all very insignificant).

Do you also find that you need a certain amount of emotional validation and respectful behavior???? I'm trying to get a clear idea of the mindset of other 4w5 INTJs because I'm in the midst of trying to evaluate whether or not I could be an INFJ.

 

[Maximus Deus]

Do you also find that you need a certain amount of emotional validation and respectful behavior???? I'm trying to get a clear idea of the mindset of other 4w5 INTJs because I'm in the midst of trying to evaluate whether or not I could be an INFJ.

Emotional validation? Never. People's emotions are generally too flimsy for me to want their validation.
Respect? Not really. The only thing I ask is for people to treat me with the same politeness I treat them. I only care about respect from people that I personally respect, but even then it's not something I really crave.