7w8: More self-identified with the need for adventure and lighter feelings. More playful and light. Expansive presence.
8w7: More self-identified with the need for independence and darker feelings. More charismatic and solid. Indomitable presence.

8s seek freedom for the sake of power and independence
7s seek power for the sake of freedom and stimulation

I suggest you also look for your instinctual subtype.

 

what is your relationship with anger?

what is your relationship with power?

do you mind it if others control you for short periods of time?

 

I hardly ever get actually angry. When I show anger (it's annoyance rather than anger, but people perceive my annoyance as anger because I have the tendency to come off as aggressive even when I don't want to) it doesn't last much (a few hours at most) and I get over it really quickly and don't think about it anymore.
When I get actually angry I bottle it up and pretend all is fine, but I end up thinking about it all the time. Until I snap. But that type of anger is really rare for me to feel, I've felt it only two or three times in all my life.

Well, power for its sake doesn't really interest me. I prefer to be in charge than to be a follower because I feel free that way (I feel trapped when I have to follow someone else's orders, but if I know that person is really competent and can help me/be a better leader in that particular situation than I could be I can accept it). I also get impatient when people who are in charge are indecisive or get stuck when their plan A doesn't work out. And I feel that many people who are in charge have this flaw.

I don't like it, unless, as I wrote before, they're more competent or can help me.

 

My stepdad is an 8w7 and my father-in-law is a 7w8. They are both very entrepreneurial and pretty unflappable (usually), but the 7w8 is much more chill, smiling, independent and nonjudgmental. The 8w7 is much more set in his ways, and can be clingy, controlling, and domineering. Both have the potential for angry outbursts, but the 8w7 is a lot moodier and feels heavier in his energy where the 7w8 is more playful.

I think they both like to do things their way, but the 8w7 is more likely to have a confrontation about why their way is right and 7w8 is more likely to say "sure..." and do it their own way anyway.

 

M where the 7w8 is more playful.

y.

Yeah, I know a bunch of 8's. None of them are ever very good at "playful."

 

- 8w7s have a very direct confrontation style. 7w8s are assertive too, but they generally prefer to mock/troll their opponent before resorting to a more direct approach
- while 7w8s are the most grounded of the head types, they are still more cerebral than an 8 and have a faster, more random energy (though not scattered as in 7w6s and 6w7s). the energy of an 8 is heavier, more like a predator.
- in general, 8s command a great deal more authority than 7s. mature Sp and So 7w8s can gain a stronger sense of authority, but overall, it's not an authoritative type.
- 7w8s are typically charming and persuasive and can look like 3s

compare Ke$ha, Hugh Hefner, Jack Nicholson and Tony Stark to Frank Sinatra, Winston Churchill, Jilllian Michaels or Rhett Butler

 

Don't know why they are thought to be so similar. Granted there are common attributes between them, yet let's not forget that 7s are an intellectual type, that is focused on how finely tuned their own perceptions are, and also what their connection to the "flow" of life is. 8 is about self-expression, pure, raw expansive freedom and the resistance against pressure from the outside world, as it's a type which focuses more on willpower.

 

They are two types that are often confused, especially when either of them have a strong wing supporting one another. Both have strong impulses, the need for excess, focus on the external, and are dynamic ID types, which can contribute to mistypings. 8s have more grounded solidity and presence than 7's scattered fluidity (flying/ slippery feel). I think how the types are connected contributes to why learning the enneagram is so interesting

 

I am having this exact same dilemma. I thinkkk I am a 8w7. I am sx/so/sp. I am playful and witty but deep down I am very serious and intentional. I have very strong values and I am very bothered by any type of social injustice. My biggest fear is surrendering control to anyone else. I think I "seek freedom for the sake of power and independence", but I also have read a lot about 7w8 and I identify with that as well...

 

I am very bothered by any type of social injustice. My biggest fear is surrendering control to anyone else.


.

this reads total 8 to me. 7 wants freedom. 8 fights being controlled.

I don't need freedom, but I won't be controlled. A 7 is willing to be controlled, but wants freedom.

 

Hmmmm.

Debating if I should float out the thought I have on this, as I'm unsure of its accuracy, but as another potential difference I'd suggest the possibility that 8s, from what I've seen, tend to have a greater desire to control and/or "protect" others, particularly children, that are perceived as innocent and therefore unable to deal with the world properly themselves.

I've seen a desire "toughen their family up" touted as an sp 8 trait before in texts, and at least one 8 say point that their kids are never going to be allowed to do [behaviour that seems innocuous] on here.

Thoughts?

 

H 8s, from what I've seen, tend to have a greater desire to control and/or "protect" others, particularly children, that are perceived as innocent and therefore unable to deal with the world properly themselves.

I've seen a desire "toughen their family up" touted as an sp 8 trait before in texts, and at least one 8 say point that their kids are never going to be allowed to do [behaviour that seems innocuous] on here.

Thoughts?

I'm guilty of the first paragraph. I encourage my kids to do stuff, but point out the consequences, and then implement the consequences.

 

@drmiller100 do you really think it would be that unusual for an sx 8w7 to be "playful" at times? Although that isn't usually a word I would describe any 8 with, my roommate and long time friend is either an 8w7 or a 7w8 (probably sx/sp and ISTP) and he can be downright childlike playful at times, but he can also be very protective and domineering, and also can be extremely moody. The playfulness is one of the main reasons I even consider 7w8 over 8w7 for him, plus the fact that he will often be involved in many projects. Do you think that undermines his 8ness?

 

Tell me more lol. I'm trying to determine 7w8 vs 8w7 myself and I've related to this guy the most so far. I'm currently typed 7w8.

 

I think there are all different types of people. anything is possible.

I'll "play" with someone I really trust and can be vulnerable with. playful is definitely possible for an 8.

ISTP 8 is kind of rare though. ISTP 6 is relatively more common.

 

I personally don't think ISTP 8 would be that uncommon, though I will say any IXXP is actually possible for this guy. I'm not sure about it. And I have also considered very CP 6 for him.

 

I don't have kids, but I definitely am the friend that tells my other girl friends to toughen up and stand up for themselves in bad relationships, job interviews, etc. (actually, I tell the same things to my guy friends too...)

 

@Bassmasterzac and @consultant_girl

It's the drive that matters for enneagram. Your outward characteristics are tied more to your MBTI. Basically, the enneagram describes what motivates you and the MBTI describes how you think and perceive the world around you.

In my case, as an INTJ 7, my motivation is freedom, novelty and adventure. How I achieve that is through grand plans, pragmatism and intuitive logic.

1) get a hawg and live in it and ramble the us
2) hop around from country to country staying for a couple months and moving on to the next
3) my retirement plan... get a boat and travel the world

sounds pretty 7 to me

Yup, that reads as 7.

If an 8 (or anyone who knows for sure) wants to chime in and correct me here, my understanding is that those types of experiences/goals have too many unknowns for an 8. There are too many variables for them to try and control.

 

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If an 8 (or anyone who knows for sure) wants to chime in and correct me here, my understanding is that those types of experiences/goals have too many unknowns for an 8. There are too many variables for them to try and control.

Those sound 7ish to me. For me, it is interesting to look at paths for integration. An 8 grows towards 2, and often find themselves helping others, especially the young, innocent, naive.

When I was younger I did things like you describe. Older I have slowed down in the real world and focus on helping others and find pleasure in that. Right now I am a professor, and love it.

Through it all I NEVER lose track of power and who is in control. I WILL be in control of me. I have learned I don't need, and can't control others, but this was a learning event for me.

I think a difference is do you look for train wrecks, and what do you do then. Do you LOOK for hurt people in need of help? Do you help them no matter how ugly it gets?
A 7 to me looks for adenture and fun. I look for adventure and fun in helping someone.

When I look back over my life, I have volunteered for search and rescue, lost people, domestic violence victims, fine arts stuff. The sense of adventure of hopping on a motorcycle and riding hte country doesn't appeal to me as much as it would a 7.

 

@drmiller100 That's interesting about the search and rescue. I did that for a while as well, but, confirming what you have said, I came at it from a very different angle. Helping people was really secondary to me. My primary interest, the fun part, was learning and maintaining my survival and outdoor skills. Also, it was a giant puzzle or mystery to be solved. The enjoyment for me came from cracking the case more than from helping a person in need.

My preferred method of helping others is to inspire and motivate them. The hands-on physical and emotional support isn't my cup of tea. In a train wreck, you would be more likely to find me going all CSI and trying to figure out what caused it, rather than diving in and helping people. Either that or I would be supporting/entertaining/motivating the people who are actually helping the victims.

As far as integration, 7s grow towards 5, becoming less flighty, more focused, finding joy in simple experiences.

 

In a train wreck, you would be more likely to find me going all CSI and trying to figure out what caused it, rather than diving in and helping people. Eis.

I'd stop the fucking train safely, and I'd go light a fire under someone's ass so more trains crashed.

smiles,........

 

Alright, so I'm more convinced I made the correct decision with 7w8. Like I said before, I've definitely got the drive of the 7 (my taste for adventure is often too overwhelming for most people) but the characteristics of an 8 which apparently is more MBTI related. One of the biggest things that I relate to the 8 is the anger.

I actually a video of some ESTP 8w7 guy on youtube (I've seen his name on this forum too) and he was explaining what happens when he is under stress and shit. He basically said when he's unter stress he goes into rampage mode and becomes reckless and hyper-focused. Another thing he said is he would want to feel invincible to all his problems, which would in turn feed the recklessness. His example was that he impulsively jumped into his car and started gassing it until he couldn't go any faster. The faster he went, the more invincible he felt. I can relate to that a lot. I'm fuckin crazy like that

 

It is VERY easy to type yourself if you consider all of the advice of the enneagram and not just bits and pieces.

Stress:
As an 8, when times get tough and you feel out of balance you move to a nervous average 5 and begin trying to observe and remain quiet. Gather knowledge. Improvise, adapt, overcome.

The 7 moves to 1 and becomes nitpicky and perfectionist, judgemental. This is in keeping with the 7 mantra - deflect fear with humor. When they fall apart it isnt funny anymore so they seek wisdom, accuracy, etc.

Growth:
As an 8, when prosperity hits and times are smooth, the earth 8 becomes generous and helpful, using the power of the 8 to (unlike an unhealthy 2) expect nothing in return. The heroism of the 8 becomes all encompassing and compassion is a big part of it.

The 7 begins to lose their acidity and open up into wonder like a healthy (ungreedy and unhidden) 5. Their quick mind becomes a fountain of delivery for new experiences to everyone.

 

And and from the writing style and answers so far of the OP, my assessment is 7w8 as well.

 

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So, first of all, thanks everyone, for your replies. You were all very helpful.
I see most of you think I look more like a 7w8, and reading your explanations for it I can see the reason why.
It makes sense that I'm more like a 7w8 than a 8w7 now.

 

I'm also confused on whether I'm a 7w8 or 8w7