I know this post is originally towards INTJs, but as an INTP, I would like to put in my input.

Throughout many years of education up to my early high school years, I have often been bullied. It seems to be that INTXs seem to be "odd" to the rest of the population as we have a complete different set of working our brains and viewing life than any other.

At first, I had thought myself to be fairly in good terms with a classmate I had viewed as a friend, until they had begun mocking me and physically causing me distress. I deeply believe that the person was not a "bad" person, but have yet to come to a conclusion of the reason behind such people's motives.

Since I had watched a mandatory theatrical play at my high school about bullying, in which introduced bullies as victims of family disputes and picking off their lack of action at home on classmates slowly overtime unconsciously, I have been able to manipulate myself back into a favorable position with them by working with them in a psychological point of view.

Although I cannot begin to compare one bullying story to another, as they are all terrible from their own angles and backstories, I just want to tell you that anyone has the possibility to be changed, and spreading your wisdom to others can go a long way. To me, being a diplomat saved me so many years of extra carnage in my life.

I'm sure this reply will have no meaning to you, but as an INTP, I have a hard time getting my ideas across. I hope you may gather something relevant from this wreckage of information, and I thank you for sharing your story.

 

In my opinion, most bullies don't have such complicated motives, like an abusive domestic life, behind their acts, it's hard to believe that there's that much abuse in homes across the world as to create so many bullies; you can find at least one of them in every school (and I'm being optimistic here), maybe even in every classroom. Some kids just like to physically or psychologically exerce power over someone who they deem as inferior, it's that simple. Probably, this was much more worse during ancient times, kids considered "weak" at those times would most likely get killed by those considered "strong", so in a sense, we're lucky for being born in this age. Bullying is a behaviour inherent to the human kind. And thank you for your input, it certainly is meaningful to me.

 

There's nothing more self-deprecating than harsh criticism and pitying on yourself.

I myself had been a victim of bullying, but in difference it was at a younger age compared to you. In my later years of elementary school, i was bullied verbally and isolated by my peers, although i wasn't physically fought with (since i was strong enough to defend myself) i did go through a deteriorating stage to which i felt intense loneliness. There wasn't much to go about with it, the teachers didn't catch the bullying and the principle wouldn't do anything until the last 2 months of the last year i was going to spent there. They provided a option of transferring to another class, to me, it would've been a heaven sent gift had it been early on. But because there were three years of emotional scars done by the isolation, it no longer bothered me anymore. It wasn't until high school was i able to recreate myself through my own efforts that i became something more.
Frankly accomplishing a way to get out of a rut is simple but requires effort and desire to do so. In that case you should keep these in mind....
Health: There's nothing that you could accomplish if you do not mind your body, your body affects your mind through the healthiness of yourself. Consider having exercise routines and proper eating in your life to avoid having to feel sluggish and monotonous because your body doesn't provide the necessary energies to fuel your mind. You're just a bunch of flesh and bones with electricity and chemicals going off.

You: Learn yourself, learn what you are and what you want in your ideal life. "Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster." - Sun Tzu

Mindset: Reorganize your head and keep a clear mind, when you're able to banish all of those negativity that you create by yourself, you can accomplish what you want by focusing.

Of course this isn't all, go about and find some self-help books or find hobbies you enjoy.

 

That's some great advice, thank you.

 

After doing a quick sweep around the web, it is also determinable that more closed mind individuals might also be more prone to bullying others from the fear of the unknown.

As INTJs only consist about 2% of the population, and INTPs as 3%, others might portray us as aliens from both our detachments from how the regular person acts and the lack of us in the general population. People who cannot accept our difference may lead to want to crush us as if we are a complete different specie from the humans.

This is a flexible theory based on a few facts and shouldn't be thought of as concrete information.

 

For what it's worth here's my points....

- I think you might be stereotyping INTJs as having bullet proof self esteem. Outward confidence and conviction in your beliefs can occur co-morbid with low self esteem. One is merely expression, the other inner experience. I'm a hot mess on the inside most of the time. But I still come across rock solid. It's not because I feel super confident it's just because I don't mince words when I'm getting something across.

- When INTJs think they are sugar coating something, it comes across like 180 grit sandpaper to just about everyone else on the planet. This alone is enough to make people turn on you, and they do. It's not just a kid thing, it continues on in adulthood as well. You'll learn that people at age 40 aren't much different maturity-wise than people age 13.

- Yes you've been bullied and gaslit too, and these are just little shits learning that they can manipulate people and isn't it fun...LolZ. Not nice for you but you'll get through it, we all do. Prepare for similar shit to happen in the working world. As long as you go through life with the expectation that people don't really grow up ever, you'll be okay and not really surprised and shocked by the rampant arse-wipe behaviour out there. I'm 45, and people my age still do this shit.

- Lack of direction, lost at sea. We all get there at various points. I don't think that part is damage from being bullied I think it's a natural consequence of living in a world similarly lost at sea and everyone doing their best to distract themselves from the reality that is in front of them. Lots of people out there faking it that they know what they want etc. Lots of people out there even believing their own press but will discover a few years down the road they took a wrong turn, chased a red herring. Forgot what life was really about, messed themselves up. In short, I think what you're really suffering from is something I call childhood hangover. As kids we're fed this tripe that life is wonderful and amazing and marvellous and we can do anything, just choose! That doesn't prepare us for running into arseholes daily and life being on the whole a steaming pile of shit when it comes down to it. Yeah there are good days and awesome days but most days aren't. And most people you meet won't light your fire either. Some will, but they will be rare.

I remember when I was being bullied in primary school. It took all my courage to talk to the teacher about it, who was a washed up 60yr old who sighed at me like I was the most inconvenient thing in his life and told me, well you'll be graduating soon and going to different schools so it doesn't matter. Yeah, that was the point at which I learned, adults are weak, they will do what's convenient, not what's right. They will make life easy on themselves at the expense of children they are supposed to protect. That was the moment in which my world shattered forever. I knew I was on my own in this life, I could depend on no-one, turn to no-one. If I did I could expect more of the same, being told things like that don't matter and can I please go away so the other person can continue to drink their tea and read the paper.

It was a shit moment to have at age 11. I can tell you. But it's served me ever since. I stopped depending on others or even expecting decency from them. I learned that anyone can and will put their own comfort above yours and will willingly burn you to save themselves. I learned that trust isn't something you automatically give, people have to earn it from you.

 

Thanks for this and for the OP sharing such a personal story. I was bullied a bit as a kid/teen but it wasnt too bad because I distracted myself a lot and still had many good friends.

But two years ago, when I started internships, I was cut off from my friends and placed into a new situation. I was so nervous and it must have showed. I met some very horrible people who definitely bullied me and even those who I reached out for help couldnt care less. I got PTSD after a year, though it took me long to realize this. It still gives me issues now but I like to think I am healing the more time passes by...though I get triggered more often now that I returned to university.

I bought and read a book about workplace bullying called "the bully at work" a year after my experience and it opened my eyes to many people experiencing the same thing, with very similar outcomes and issues afterwards. It felt good to see you aren't alone. It also went into typical traits for bullies and victims and what their research shows of how to deal with the situation. Sadly, it shows most of the times, the bully at work wins by having more social capital to twist the perceptions in his/her favor. The distrust you have for people, I have felt that too especially the years after my incident. I am slowly starting to listen to my intuition more and proceed cautiously in opening up and trusting again, but the person has to "prove themselves" in actions and not just words. Show me you are kind. Dont just sweet talk. And reading people's actions takes more time but its worthwhile confirmation.

One thing I wish I could control is how I tend to overshare when I get nervous. I can get very unfiltered and honest, so if you ask how I am or how I feel ...when I am nervous...I say way too much. This can be one flag to potential bullies because then they have ammo into your personal life. So I am trying to build more protection/boundaries and reading up on those things.

 

I wasn't bullied, but I have self-esteem issues nevertheless due to problems in my home life. What's more, it is quite possible for an INTJ to have poor self-esteem and a lack of confidence. Our tendency is to express complete ideas that we have developed great certainty in. It is easy to appear confident doing this, but people do not see the inner turmoil surrounding the processes that produced those ideas. Considering how private I am, I prefer to take advantage of this and not let the people around me know what I actually deal with internally.

As it happens, the gap between how INTJs are perceived and how INTJs actually are even confuses those of our own number. :laughing:

 

I don't know if what I went through was bullying, I had "friends" who made fun of me pretty regularly in school. Then there was this girl who sat at my table in 1st grade, who deliberately annoyed me by looking at my math homework and pointing her finger at everything saying "that's wrong". I started holding the book up so she couldn't see it, then she'd shout at the teacher that I didn't do my homework. lol. I don't know what her deal was, maybe she didn't like that I could do math She did this every day, I got so angry about it that my teacher ended up talking to my parents, I was sent to counseling (which ended up lasting until I was 11 and went to middle school), and then I was moved to another table.

I think I was also just generally seen as weird which encouraged it more. I remember a group of 2-3 friends telling me in around 3rd grade or so that they thought I was an alien when I first came to the school, I think they said because of how my eyes looked or something.

So isolation and alienation, yes. Bullied? I dunno. My mom was so overprotective she claims I got bullied and needed counseling. I don't think bullied is the right word.

I was just seen as weird and people made that clear to me, usually in some passive-aggressive way.

High school was actually much easier for me than all the years prior, in fact. But by then I had already had a few nervous breakdowns, lost a lot of self-esteem, developed anxiety disorders, etc. and determined that myself and the rest of humanity is fucked up. So I think that cynicism made things easier somehow. (I've posted long personal things here too about all that, and felt cringey about it afterwards :tongue

I actually used to test as an ISTJ a lot, towards the end of high school when I was first exposed to MBTI online tests (but didn't really know much about them). I remember having a very rigid mindset and (some of this is still true now) not wanting to think of myself as flaky, ungrounded, passive, weak, etc. So I think that affected how I answered quiz questions. I can imagine if I wasn't so obsessed with not wanting to seem flaky and/or weak, maybe mistyping as INTP. I have typed as INTP a few times but that was more during college, after I had more understanding of MBTI and how I was answering the questions.

Honestly I also met an INTP in my first year, and I think he inadvertently boosted my ego because I realized this is how an INTP "really" is (I may not have ever interacted with an INTP before college), and I was able to see differences in myself (like he didn't seem bothered by the idea of coming off as passive or like some socially retarded nerd the way I was, and he seemed to respect me maybe more than I did myself-- thought I was intelligent and valued that highly). So in a way I realized I'm not actually weak, passive, helpless, nerdy, a loser etc., no one else seemed to be getting that impression but me (unless it became a self-fulfilling prophecy, where I would come off as what I most feared myself to be, funny how that works...).

So yeah as far as typing goes, I can see where there would be crossover. But the thing is if you're an INTP your self-esteem probably isn't so closely linked to whether or not you are "helpless" or a nerdy loser or whatever. At least not in the same way as INTJ.

I sometimes doubt my typing as well solely on the basis of "but I'm not confident enough of a person" or something along those lines; I think EndsOfTheEarth makes a good point though, that appearing confident (or even cocky) and actually having high self-esteem aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

I can relate to not wanting to be seen as passive, helpless and weak... Even if I feel like I'm a passive, worthless loser on the inside, I don't want other people to see this in myself, I feel like they would took advantage of that. It's kind of weird to think like that because, in my mind, only weak people would expose their own weaknesses to others, so I hide mine, yet, I still feel like a weak person. And I've never met an INTP in my life (not that I'm aware of, anyway), so I can't even compare myself to someone else.

 

Some points that might help. Might give some new perspective.

-Analysing the past can be very useful in order to understand yourself. To understand what has happened that made you what you are right now. But don't live in the past. Don't let the negative parts decide your present and future reality. Easier said than done, but still true.

-There are also many people who do good in the world. You can be part of them. Don't just look at the negative aspects of humanity.

-Also many have experienced isolation/alienation. We are not alone. Just spread out over the planet sometimes meeting on the internet.

-Embrace your individuality. Don't try to conform of feel bad about not fitting in. But not because of hating other people or wanting to be special or because you feel forced to do so. But just because you are an individual and you have your own value to bring to others by being... yourself. The paradox is that the more you learn to do this... the more chance you have to genuinely connect with people.

-If i were a psychologist i would probably find your avatar choice a bit disturbing. Since sympathizing with such a violent character is probably not the healthiest thing to do. There are many people with overprotective mothers and problematic childhoods who learned to deal with it in more positive ways.

-MBTI can indeed be very helpful to understand why other people are morons i mean different. Another option is to make ongoing self improvement a hobby and habit. This will give you the joy of self mastery, feeling more in control, less dependant on how others treat you. The good news is that people can change if they develop good habits. And the other good news is that there are many sources of information in the form of video/audio/articles/books. The amount of useful positive stuff on youtube alone is enormous.

 

Some points that might help. Might give some new perspective.

-Analysing the past can be very useful in order to understand yourself. To understand what has happened that made you what you are right now. But don't live in the past. Don't let the negative parts decide your present and future reality. Easier said than done, but still true.

Yes, I try not to live in the past and to not let it influence me, but I can't overlook the fact that the past molded the person that I am now. Like you said, it's hard, but I'm trying.

-There are also many people who do good in the world. You can be part of them. Don't just look at the negative aspects of humanity.

I do believe that there are people out there who do good, the few friends I have now are good people. But, outside of my small circle, it's hard to believe in the goodness of others or to trust people in general.

-Also many have experienced isolation/alienation. We are not alone. Just spread out over the planet sometimes meeting on the internet.

-Embrace your individuality. Don't try to conform of feel bad about not fitting in. But not because of hating other people or wanting to be special or because you feel forced to do so. But just because you are an individual and you have your own value to bring to others by being... yourself. The paradox is that the more you learn to do this... the more chance you have to genuinely connect with people.

I don't feel that bad about not fitting in anymore, but feeling distant from others does bother me. I also have trouble finding my own "individuality", I don't have many hobbies, many passions, many dreams or even many ideas. The only way I know that I'm an intuitive is because I spend too much time in my own head thinking about abstract things that probably don't matter to anyone else besides me.

-If i were a psychologist i would probably find your avatar choice a bit disturbing. Since sympathizing with such a violent character is probably not the healthiest thing to do. There are many people with overprotective mothers and problematic childhoods who learned to deal with it in more positive ways.

Nah, I don't think that I'll go around killing people. I don't sympathize that much with him anyway, there are some other aspects of his character that are quite similar to mine (feeling isolated from the world, feeling "trapped" in his own mind, etc.), but they definitely don't involve killing people or having split personality.

-MBTI can indeed be very helpful to understand why other people are morons i mean different.

Haha, good one.

Another option is to make ongoing self improvement a hobby and habit. This will give you the joy of self mastery, feeling more in control, less dependant on how others treat you. The good news is that people can change if they develop good habits. And the other good news is that there are many sources of information in the form of video/audio/articles/books. The amount of useful positive stuff on youtube alone is enormous.

This is what I'm trying to attain by getting myself typed and posting here. Lately, I've been really focusing on improving myself as a person, I don't know if I'll have success or not, but I'm trying anyway. But thanks for your input.

 

I'm sorry that happened to you. My son was bullied for years at school, and I can see the damage it did to him as well. It still affects him, as it does you. Make no mistake, that kind of ongoing trauma leaves massive scars.

But as an adult he is managing to get past it, and you can too. One thing that really helped him was to get involved in something that interested him, and involved other people. One that does not involve other family members. That way he built his confidence and learned about how healthy connections with other people work. He got involved in role-playing games, and now runs a lot of them. He has gained confidence and people skills, and has made some good friends along the way.

Many people (including some teachers) assume that relationships come naturally, that we are born knowing how to connect with others, how to treat them. But if you observe a bunch of two year olds, you will see that it clearly is not true. It is a learned skill. And if we are treated badly, that is what we learn. You were taught how badly people behave, and to not trust them. Your challenge now is to learn a better way to connect. That is not an impossible goal.

If you possibly can, get a good therapist or life coach to help you figure out some new behaviors and to start coming to terms with the bullying.

 

I don't think the apparent "confidence" spoken of in most well-written INTJ descriptions is "confidence" in the usual sense of the word, or particularly relates to "self-esteem" (which I frankly find to be kind of a useless/empty concept anyway, when I try applying it to myself). Instead it's basically just about our tendency to say what we see, maybe bluntly, and stick by it until we see something different for whatever reason. Personally it's never been the case that I've been particularly confident in myself. It's more that I'm less confident in everyone else... not because I necessarily think they're incompetent even (thought lots are) but because I'm the only one whose mental machinery I have control of. I can make sure my cogs and gears and etc. get regular maintenance and monitor them for malfunctions through every step of the process, I can't do that with anyone else's.

When people see me as confident, which in some circumstances they definitely tend to, it's not generally reflective of my internal egoistic/emotional state... I think it's usually because they're attempting to triangulate the likely cause of my strident behavior based on speculation about why they might behave the way I behave in x circumstances if they were behaving that way, forgetting that I'm not them.

Anyhow, pep talk time: I was bullied in early highschool to the point that I lost all of my friends and ended up being pulled out of public school in part for that reason. By the time I was 18 my social anxiety (which I had always had but which was enormously exacerbated by the social problems, needless to say) had escalated to the point that I more or less didn't eat my entire first week of college as the idea of getting groceries rung up by a cashier on my own was overwhelming. A decade later, I'm an upwardly mobile professional. I'm far more at ease interacting with others than I ever have been. I think that having negative experiences like those I had helped me to develop certain kinds of insight, inoculated me against future loneliness, and made me more realistic about how social experiences shape individuals. Experiencing genuine ostracism will have an impact on you, but it's possible to learn from and push past it too.

 

WIn the end, I think I wrote this just to seek some validation and maybe some advice, and I know that I'll probably regret this, I rarely share personal things about me, even to internet strangers, but I want to let this out in some way.

bullying sucks really hard. but for what it's worth, i'd take a look at this question: there's a difference between not trusting or liking yourself, and not trusting the rest of the world to 'like' you. nobody's an absolute island unless something is clinically wrong with them, so i think the question's important, personally.

are you really not confident of yourself? or is it more a matter of not having enough confidence in the rest of the species that you belong to.

just thought i'd mention that, because the phrase 'low self-esteem' really gets me going. it's such a glib, patronizing little dismissal. and if you ask me half the time it's stigmatizing people who are just making an objective commentary about where they 'stand' relative to the general population. not saying that to put you down, by the way. it's just a pet peeve of my own, i guess.

as far as mistyping goes: i think we're just as vulnerable to it as anyone else, but our vulnerability might be of a slightly different kind. here's a couple of the things that i've thought:

- i tend to look at all sides and take most things at face value, at least initially. so where someone else might be susceptible through the cliche'd avenues of low self-blah-blah, i've actually gotten closer to being bullied via my openmindedness and my rationality.

- i just don't expect it either - that's another factor. i can be as mean as the next person and a lot meaner than the next person over from them, if i want to be. but i swear, even now i don't get the point of mean just for the supposed fun of being mean. so i default expect most people to be not only rational, but essentially nice. i'm 52 sometime next month and i still have to go through this lag phase of breath-taken disbelief when i come up against a real bully. i don't get it, and even when i get it i can't get my head around it. so sometimes my shields will be down, and sometimes i'm too mindboggled to even know how to respond.

- power really isn't a native language for me. i'm an introvert and a bit of a separatist, but at heart i'm basically a collaborator. so again, when i come up against a dickhead type i can feel paralyzed by them.

tl:dr: i don't think there's anything that makes intjs especially immune to bullies. our inherent confidence maybe takes a few more years to develop though, compared with some types. i may just be basing that on myself, but i needed to collect all the info before i really put it together into an internal system that felt solid to me. that took me a little longer because for me, there's always so much more info than there seems to be for most other people. i always liked that saying 'the wheels of god grind slowly, but they grind exceeding small'. that kind of felt like the way i deal with a lot of my life.

also, this is a pretty good place, so hope you'll stay around and catch your breath for a while if you've been feeling cornered by life.

 

bullying sucks really hard. but for what it's worth, i'd take a look at this question: there's a difference between not trusting or liking yourself, and not trusting the rest of the world to 'like' you. nobody's an absolute island unless something is clinically wrong with them, so i think the question's important, personally.

are you really not confident of yourself? or is it more a matter of not having enough confidence in the rest of the species that you belong to.

Well, I think that I do trust some parts of me, like my ability to analyze a situation from multiple angles and come up with a solution for it, but I question other parts of myself, like my ability to actually accomplish concrete things in life. As for the rest of the world, I have a hard time letting myself be part of it because I fear I'll fail at meeting people's expectations of me.

just thought i'd mention that, because the phrase 'low self-esteem' really gets me going. it's such a glib, patronizing little dismissal. and if you ask me half the time it's stigmatizing people who are just making an objective commentary about where they 'stand' relative to the general population. not saying that to put you down, by the way. it's just a pet peeve of my own, i guess.

Sorry if I came across as patronizing.

- i just don't expect it either - that's another factor. i can be as mean as the next person and a lot meaner than the next person over from them, if i want to be. but i swear, even now i don't get the point of mean just for the supposed fun of being mean. so i default expect most people to be not only rational, but essentially nice. i'm 52 sometime next month and i still have to go through this lag phase of breath-taken disbelief when i come up against a real bully. i don't get it, and even when i get it i can't get my head around it. so sometimes my shields will be down, and sometimes i'm too mindboggled to even know how to respond.

- power really isn't a native language for me. i'm an introvert and a bit of a separatist, but at heart i'm basically a collaborator. so again, when i come up against a dickhead type i can feel paralyzed by them.

Yeah, being polite is a default state for me, when people are mean to others for no reason, I don't get it either. I may be rude to others without realizing it on occasion, but if I knew that I was being rude at the time I would act differently.

tl:dr: i don't think there's anything that makes intjs especially immune to bullies. our inherent confidence maybe takes a few more years to develop though, compared with some types. i may just be basing that on myself, but i needed to collect all the info before i really put it together into an internal system that felt solid to me. that took me a little longer because for me, there's always so much more info than there seems to be for most other people. i always liked that saying 'the wheels of god grind slowly, but they grind exceeding small'. that kind of felt like the way i deal with a lot of my life.

also, this is a pretty good place, so hope you'll stay around and catch your breath for a while if you've been feeling cornered by life.

I can relate to how you think, it's good to know that there are others out there who think like this too. Thank you for the input.

 

Mr. C.

I admire your courage to open up. Im a nobody from nowhere, but I know some cutting edge wealthy people around the earth. If you want to succeed Id like to encourage you taking this particular advice into consideration. Go an meet top leaders. Stand next to their cars, office, etc till they see you there. Persist. All of them know the myersb. and one of them will be like you. That person will know ur development potential and will take u under his wing. Soundly unmanly, but that did certainly impress me.

With the rest. The world if full of opinions mate. Most of them are out of value or outdated. Dodge people who do not add value into different parts of your life. And if they continue to do add, never ever let go of them. Also keep books as your friends. Study the flower of life, too, if you already have not

Integrity, intelligent execution and high energy level (consciousness). That's what they all want to have around

 

Wow. You know, I'm not big on reading long personal posts, but your story and mine are so similar in the events. Like yourself, I was bullied in grade school and accused of being the problem by the principal, with a sticky parental mess. My mom was also protective of me in a way I didn't necessarily want, like yours was. In my case, my group of friends began to do things that I thought were wrong and mean, refused to join in, and became the scapegoat for it.

Your situation sounds like it escalated a few steps past the point that mine did, and mine was probably more politically-driven and clique-centric than yours was.

Regardless, your situation shouldn't ever happen to any kid. Even to this day when I see kids bullying others I have to push back this impulse to just pop the bully. It's something I really wanted to do through grade school but didn't because I wanted to be a good person; the resentment of trying to be respectful but getting fucked over for it repeatedly hasn't ever really completely gone away. Nowadays I tend to speak out against it instead, or stop it when I see it and that's a good outlet.

When you are bullied, I see it as giving you a mission of sorts to make sure it doesn't happen to other kids like you were when it happened to you. Have you ever considered mentoring other kids who are bullied?

Also, the more worrying sense I got from your post was the withdrawal, and lack of drive for goals. I read that as if you see yourself as damaged goods, being limited by circumstance, and nothing being worth the effort. Going down that path without changing something in your assumptions will be a very dark path indeed. I felt that way for awhile, and out of experience can tell you that you are probably severely selling yourself short, especially when you use words like "irreversible" and "lack." You are a survivor (not a victim) of a situation in which you were mocked by people, lied about, and pushed around with no/the wrong kind of support. Not to sound morose, but a lot of kids don't make it that far in similar struggles. Anyone who can get through that has some kind of grit, and it's now your task to reclaim it as though it wasn't lost.

My very simple advice would be to expand your ideas of what actions you can do to make a career and do what you enjoy doing in your professional life. Specifically, I think you really need to figure out a way to put some money together, move away from your mom.

 

This thread makes my resolve to punish people with Te just stronger.
It really is me or them, I have suffered enough tbh, so now it is their turn to suffer.
And even then I'm somewhat nice and still not actively trying to hunt them down,
I just put up barriers for them to hit their head against and know their agenda since I know their type.
I think most INTJs find upbringing to be a troublesome process.
Yet as people say here, adulthood is scarcely better.
At least in a capitalistic society, I now have to option of being a freelanser.
Meaning that at the end of the day, I don't really have to suffer a lot of the bad shit in many workplaces.
It also means that I can set my own agenda and do the effective stuff that actually is important,
rather the inane stuff everyone else claim to be important.

 

walk 30 mins a day, think of it as an italian tuneup for INTJ bodies (most are not well built).

Meditate 10 mins a day. Its like defragging the mind.

Try doing it at least 2-3 times a week.

 

I already take a walk whenever I can, I like to go outside and think while looking at the scenery around me, it's refreshing. As for meditation, I don't know if I can do that in my home, people are very loud and intrusive here, but I'll see what I can do about that. Thank you for the tips.

 

This sounds awful. I experienced a very similar situation when I was younger (9-13). A deep hurt never really leaves you and a coping mechanism that one develops as a result can be turned into a strength. For example, how you handled this difficult situation by maybe becoming hyper alert. I'd imagine that now you have a much better radar than you did before. This can be a strength. Or, maybe you'll be able to detect negativity more quickly.

The description you used of yourself sitting in the middle of a bunch of shouting adults. That's such a powerful imagery.

I commented back to thank you for sharing and to let you know that you're not alone in having experiences like that. I hope that you go on to heal from this.

 

This sounds awful. I experienced a very similar situation when I was younger (9-13). A deep hurt never really leaves you and a coping mechanism that one develops as a result can be turned into a strength. For example, how you handled this difficult situation by maybe becoming hyper alert. I'd imagine that now you have a much better radar than you did before. This can be a strength. Or, maybe you'll be able to detect negativity more quickly.

You're right, I think I can easily detect negative/manipulative people now.

The description you used of yourself sitting in the middle of a bunch of shouting adults. That's such a powerful imagery.

Yes, I think that moment will be forever stuck in my mind, it basically represents most of what I despise in human beings.

I commented back to thank you for sharing and to let you know that you're not alone in having experiences like that. I hope that you go on to heal from this.

Thank you.

 

I've read that INTJs can come across as being arrogant because they tend to be confident in their insights, knowledge and self, and while I do come across as being arrogant/rude sometimes, I don't think that I have this confidence that seems typical of INTJs. This is one of the reasons that made me type myself as an INTP, because it's said that INTPs are just like INTJs, but lazy, passive, indecisive, etc. I wasn't aware that this was a huge stereotype at that time, so I believed it. However, it came to my mind that the reason I may not be as confident as some INTJs seem to be is because I've got some low self-esteem issues after having suffered bullying during high school.

I can totally relate to all of this. I, too typed as an INTJ, but I don't really feel all that confident, which also means I'm not good at actualizing my ideas, maybe because of self esteem issues, or maybe because of my personality, I don't know. So I, too, typed myself as an INTP because of the laziness, indecisiveness, etc. I can relate to the bullying too, but not just in high school; it was even before and also after, occasionally.

It has been three whole years since then, and I still feel like I haven't completely recovered from that hell. In the first year after finishing high school, I entered in college to major in Computer Engineering despite knowing only the basics about computers. I wasn't interested in it very much, I only did it because I wanted to have a job that paid me enough to live independently from my mom, even though she didn't want me to live away from her, she's very overprotective (that's why I use Norman Bates as my avatar, I could relate to his struggle with his overprotective mother). I managed to make some friends during college, but I still felt like I wasn't the same old me, something was different, even though I called those people "friends", the word didn't mean anything to me anymore, I couldn't relate to them as fellow human beings, it's like I was from a different species, I've always felt that way to some extent, but now it was much worse. So I distancied myself from them too and dropped out of college right after, I just wasn't interested in it.

And this leads to the present, I'm still a college drop-out, I still feel like I'm different from other people, but I'm a lot better now. MBTI has helped me understand myself and others a little better, to see others as humans like me but wired differently, it was almost therapeutic in a way. However, I feel like the damage done to my personality during those high school years is irreversible, I still lack a sense of direction in life. I have some vague goals that I want to achieve, and I know that I have some kind of purpose in life even though I believe that, in the grand scheme of things, everything is meaningless, but it's like there's a wall between me and my dreams, I don't know how to explain it. In the end, I think I wrote this just to seek some validation and maybe some advice, and I know that I'll probably regret this, I rarely share personal things about me, even to internet strangers, but I want to let this out in some way.

Again, I can relate. I think the bullying caused me some kind of PTSD. I was actually scared of people, I only wanted to be by myself to be safe. I, too dropped out of university because of the mental state I was in after high school. And I didn't understand that it was because of the trauma of the bullying that I was being that way, I just thought it was me having a shitty personality, and being guilty of being not good enough, not pretty enough...

I'm not sure I'm in the position to give some advice or be helpful in any way, I can just say that I relate, and I'm still trying to put my life together. The bullying really fucked me up a lot. Way more than I wanted to admit back then; I would pretend I was fine being alone and that I didn't care back then, I didn't want to deal with all that shit, so I just tried to avoid thinking about it. Not sure it was a good idea, but that's all I could do, I guess.

Sometimes I wonder if it was the bullying who made me an introvert, and made me feel like an alien, or if I got bullied because I was introverted in the first place, and thus seen as different.

 

I can totally relate to all of this. I, too typed as an INTJ, but I don't really feel all that confident, which also means I'm not good at actualizing my ideas, maybe because of self esteem issues, or maybe because of my personality, I don't know. So I, too, typed myself as an INTP because of the laziness, indecisiveness, etc. I can relate to the bullying too, but not just in high school; it was even before and also after, occasionally.



Again, I can relate. I think the bullying caused me some kind of PTSD. I was actually scared of people, I only wanted to be by myself to be safe. I, too dropped out of university because of the mental state I was in after high school. And I didn't understand that it was because of the trauma of the bullying that I was being that way, I just thought it was me having a shitty personality, and being guilty of being not good enough, not pretty enough...

I'm not sure I'm in the position to give some advice or be helpful in any way, I can just say that I relate, and I'm still trying to put my life together. The bullying really fucked me up a lot. Way more than I wanted to admit back then; I would pretend I was fine being alone and that I didn't care back then, I didn't want to deal with all that shit, so I just tried to avoid thinking about it. Not sure it was a good idea, but that's all I could do, I guess.

Sometimes I wonder if it was the bullying who made me an introvert, and made me feel like an alien, or if I got bullied because I was introverted in the first place, and thus seen as different.

Thank you for your input, it's good to know that I'm not alone on this. In my case, I think the bullying was because I was an introvert, I've always been one, I think there were a few other introverts in my class, but they were more social than me and thus did not stand out.

 

double post

 

I just want to know if there are any INTJs that can relate to what I'm about to tell; if you don't relate to it, feel free to tell me how you would handle this situation.

I relate to it very much. Some of what you said could be verbatim what I would say about some of my experiences in school. Especially this:

So I couldn't stand school anymore, every passing minute in that place was like hell to me, and I couldn't learn anything, my grades began to drop like a bomb, which only pushed me further into depression. I couldn't go to another school because it was the closest public school to home and we didn't have money to pay a private school. So I strated to skip classes every week to escape, I just couldn't bother about it anymore. My mom realised this shift in my behaviour, and she thought I was just being lazy. I didn't bother to explain my feelings to her because I was deeply ashamed of them, I didn't want to be seen as weak or to depend on anyone anymore, it was because I told my mom about how I was feeling about school that everything went to shit in the first place, so hiding those things from her made perfect sense to me. Only now do I realise how my mind was in an incredibly unhealthy state, it's even hard to type this without cringing at my past self.

I was severely ostracized at school. It got to the point that I could not ride the school bus because I was being physically harassed. Unlike you, however, I was not quiet. I was outspoken and had behavior problems where I wasn’t able to cope with change. However, by the time I was in middle school I stopped talking to others and kept to myself because I was attacked so much due to these problems. Kids threw rocks and me and called me names, spit in my food, stalked me and destroyed my things, etc.

I skipped school and hid in bathrooms, pretended to be sick, sometimes just left campus, or got in trouble on purpose so I’d be sent home. My grades suffered and I fell behind two years. I tried to pass it off as not being interested in school. I didn’t want anyone to know I was afraid of everyone.

This all stopped after I was transferred to a small private charter school by the generosity of the school’s owner. He let me attend for free because he really wanted me to do well and knew I wasn’t going to make it through public school at the rate I was going. He is the reason I have a high school diploma.

Anyway, I think someone hit it on the head when they said the paranoia and distrust that comes from experiences like this can naturally lead us to question our value. You say it has been three years, and that is really not very long. It is ok that you haven’t immediately gotten over these feelings of betrayal, and that you are still trying to make sense of people and how they behave.

I wonder if your difficulty letting go of this is partly because you aren’t allowing yourself to acknowledge that it really affected you. You know it affected you, but still seem to believe it shouldn’t have. This talk about “a true INTJ would not have let it chip at their confidence” is not being fair to yourself. We are perceivers first; we let it all in, and after it is there we start to process what it means. The external judging function is auxiliary; others might see us as being confident, but if our perceptions haven’t reflected success or understanding, we probably aren’t so sure of ourselves (leave that to ENTP).

You can heal from these negative experiences the more positive experiences and affirmation you have. You need to increase your data set to expand your view of what relationships with others can be.

In my junior year of high school (still a year late), I made my first real friends after getting my behavior problems under control. I was paranoid that it would all turn out horrible. These people seemed friendly and interested in me, and that was all wrong from my experience. I was terrified, but went along with it anyway and it turned out they were great people and some of them I am still friends with today, over 10 years later.

INTJs are secretly open and flexible. We can entertain multiple realities, even if we tend to focus on them one at a time. I hope once you fully process your experience, you will be able to be open again. It sounds like part of it is that you haven't allowed yourself to be who you are without the self-judgement; and hence, may be why you are putting your own personality under a microscope.

 

I relate to it very much. Some of what you said could be verbatim what I would say about some of my experiences in school. Especially this:



I was severely ostracized at school. It got to the point that I could not ride the school bus because I was being physically harassed. Unlike you, however, I was not quiet. I was outspoken and had behavior problems where I wasn’t able to cope with change. However, by the time I was in middle school I stopped talking to others and kept to myself because I was attacked so much due to these problems. Kids threw rocks and me and called me names, spit in my food, stalked me and destroyed my things, etc.

I skipped school and hid in bathrooms, pretended to be sick, sometimes just left campus, or got in trouble on purpose so I’d be sent home. My grades suffered and I fell behind two years. I tried to pass it off as not being interested in school. I didn’t want anyone to know I was afraid of everyone.

This all stopped after I was transferred to a small private charter school by the generosity of the school’s owner. He let me attend for free because he really wanted me to do well and knew I wasn’t going to make it through public school at the rate I was going. He is the reason I have a high school diploma.

Anyway, I think someone hit it on the head when they said the paranoia and distrust that comes from experiences like this can naturally lead us to question our value. You say it has been three years, and that is really not very long. It is ok that you haven’t immediately gotten over these feelings of betrayal, and that you are still trying to make sense of people and how they behave.

I wonder if your difficulty letting go of this is partly because you aren’t allowing yourself to acknowledge that it really affected you. You know it affected you, but still seem to believe it shouldn’t have. This talk about “a true INTJ would not have let it chip at their confidence” is not being fair to yourself. We are perceivers first; we let it all in, and after it is there we start to process what it means. The external judging function is auxiliary; others might see us as being confident, but if our perceptions haven’t reflected success or understanding, we probably aren’t so sure of ourselves (leave that to ENTP).

You can heal from these negative experiences the more positive experiences and affirmation you have. You need to increase your data set to expand your view of what relationships with others can be.

In my junior year of high school (still a year late), I made my first real friends after getting my behavior problems under control. I was paranoid that it would all turn out horrible. These people seemed friendly and interested in me, and that was all wrong from my experience. I was terrified, but went along with it anyway and it turned out they were great people and some of them I am still friends with today, over 10 years later.

INTJs are secretly open and flexible. We can entertain multiple realities, even if we tend to focus on them one at a time. I hope once you fully process your experience, you will be able to be open again. It sounds like part of it is that you haven't allowed yourself to be who you are without the self-judgement; and hence, may be why you are putting your own personality under a microscope.

Some of what you wrote, I want to hang up on my wall because it is true. When I was depressed after my bullying incident, everyone kept telling me, just be positive! And when I couldn't do that, I felt even more like a failure. I realized that I need to have experienced something to be positive about. Experience...as u say...increase the data set...has been what has been getting me through. It can take a while to start moving forward, but I had to try. I took two classes after I spent months at home, lost with what to do now, afraid of people...and i was scared...but I met really friendly people and was able to take back some of my own self confidence in my own intelligence (after I was made to feel dumb by my previous preceptors). I returned to university to pursue a 2nd graduate degree to find a better path and though at times I still get triggered when I meet some new people...I try to stick it out to see if it really is them or just my past trauma.

Right now though, I am starting internships again (where my bullying incident started, though it is a slightly different field) and I am having trouble keeping calm. I recently am coming to grips that I am an INTJ and I have read that NT personalities are targeted more by bullies due to their rarity...which offers some clarity but also more anxiety. I figure though...it is better I know this now than later. If people are prone to seeing me incorrectly, I just have to get use to it and savor those who do accept me. And if this is a lifelong issue...then I better make some lifelong friends too. I dunno. I am coming to grips with it so reading this thread helps.

 

I've been heavily bullied when I was in high school so I can relate. There was this girl I was into in my first year of high school, problem was that her friend was into me but I didn't care at all for her so I turned her down. The girl I was into took it upon herself to make me regret my decision and ended up giving me a really shitty nick name which I will be keeping to myself. Being a popular girl, everyone followed her initiative like sheep and I ended up with the entire grade against me. The few friends I had turned against me because picking on me was apparently the cool thing to do... I ended up flunking my 2nd year of high school because the bullying was really getting to me. When I returned to school the following year I knew nobody and since I became unable to trust anyone I couldn't manage to make any friends at all. I can think of a girl or 2 that attempted to get close to me but I just assumed they were messing with me. Through out the rest of high school I managed to make a couple more "friends" but they also either turned on me or just disappeared completely. When I finally left high school I was so fed up with school I just went on to work instead of pursuing higher education.

Still today I can't really call anyone a friend. They're all just "Work Acquaintances". I have seriously not done anything with a friend outside of work in over 10 years. I've had some request to go see a movie or something many years ago but I would just turn down everyone who attempted to get close to me.

 

Still today I can't really call anyone a friend. They're all just "Work Acquaintances". I have seriously not done anything with a friend outside of work in over 10 years. I've had some request to go see a movie or something many years ago but I would just turn down everyone who attempted to get close to me.

I'm sorry about what happened to you. I definitely appreciate that I still have some friends from middle school and have made a few ones over the internet, I think they made me avoid becoming a complete misanthrope. I hope you can make some friends, I think it's important to have someone to share your thoughts with in a regular basis so that you don't get too stuck in your own head. Anyway, thank you for your input.

 

My story is strange. I tested​ad an Infp then I became homeless and graduated to a Infj and now I'm an Intj.. I have no idea what that means. But I wasn't bullied at school per se, more mental bullying like people talking​ behind my​ back but never to my face which still happens to this die. In real life I'm considered a loser and a failure as well as me being ugly so yeah I'm fucked. I wish the world was a less judgmental and better place otherwise everyone would really be truly happy.

 

How about you and me start to make the world a little better place to live in?

I will start by not judging your remarks about how the INTJs are at the bottom of the misery game. And you will stop judging yourself as being a loser and failure and such and stop caring about the judgment of others that say the same?

 

I feel like things are worse now in the world

 

@TypeOne It's just hard not to want to punch certain people in the face. But I'll try. Because I thought about suicide. I'm trying to find reasons to live other than getting payback on those who wronged me.

 

Fuck wanting to punch people in the face and suicide, the best payback is success. Be the best you can be and make others regret not being on your good side when they had the chance.

 

@lostsoul16

That is key. Letting go of the past, forgive each and every time the negativity tries to take over. Repeat. Make it a good habit that becomes a part of the subconscious machine.

Seek out new perspectives. Listen and/or talk to people who wil inspire you. Here's something for you to keep you in the game: